[paradox]

...

[flameshaw]

No excuse. No freaking excuse. Three games and at least 5-6 practices with the new mix. I refuse to rip any one player—but what I saw tonight at the Furnance was not team basketball at all (although I love what I am seeing out of Brew--contrary to Dickens' remarks in another thread). There is no need to be jacking 3’s up like we did in the first half. We are all out of sync. Team play--that is a COACHING issue. Thank God we can at least rebound—or it would have been worse. If something isn’t done---and done quick---we will be nothing more than a 5-6 seed in the big south. Unacceptable. Yes--I am the one who preached "be patient," but this is ridiculous. We have the talent--so that is not the issue. I am off the good ship lollypop and dumping my Kool-Aid supply.

I leave you with these thoughts.
Turnover in players--leaving on their own and otherwise?
Turnover in the coaching staff--yes, some to better jobs??
Turnover in Athletic Dept admin and support staff--most certainly not on their own??? (We have posters who can attest to that)
My father always told me If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, and swims like a duck, then it is a duck.
Dickens, Nickrichard, and others--maybe you are the ones in the right.



I am OUT.

AG,
Be careful, you are very close to realizing the main source of our problems and when the light fully illuminates, you are not going to like what you see. Bottom line is that we have better talent than we are demonstrating, but that being said, we are still not a very good team. We could be....................but. The only way we win a game before UNCA, is if the other team doesn't get to the arena.
Not being negative, just realistic. By the way, there are a lot of underpriveledged kids who would like to get into your stash of kool-aid for Christmas. I doubt you we be needing it anytime soon.

[bigsmooth]

here are my observations form the game, and there were probably 200 in the stands:

1. we got schooled on pump fakes and head fakes too many times. keep your feet guys.....that is coaching and discipline
2. we looked totally out of sync
3. alex played soft too many times during the game. he needs more consistency in his game. i know he had a ton of boards, but at times was just getting beat.
4. tyler baker has shown me nothing yet. i know that TBGBG is his publicist, but he did not shoot well.
5. smiity, tyler or alex really need to step up their game....consistency
6. D did not cuss to get the technical.
7. lipscomb is no joke. they had good guard play and took it to us. yes we should win at home, but this is not cincy christian.

with all of this said, we are really looking at a 5 game slide until we get to big south play, and we have never played well at UNCA. i really hope we can get some consistency in the coming week, as it is not going to get any easier. BTW...the concession stand at the entrance was open, but the other one was closed. HMO is working on getting both open..and i found another seat ripped ou of the concrete just laying there. my crusade continues.

[flameshaw]

Paradox, you have real winthrop envy don't you? Peaking in December, I don't think they're peaking when the starting point guard is out and they took Wisconsin to OT with a walk on freshman running the point, Bradshaw still finding his groove from an injury, and McCoullough playing limited with an ankle. We're playing down right now, actually.

I agree some of the LU fans are over-reacting, they've only played 3 games together, but I do question Brewington at the point, he's always been turnover prone, but will he switch to a new position, and then where do you play smith?

Trust me, there is no envy here. Winthrop has a good program, but only by big south standards. Every year, a few big name schools go down to a no-name, or they put a scare into them as Gregg Marshall is fond of saying. Did Oral Bob break out the champainge when they took down #2 Kansas? I'm sure that there is a lot of excitement in Tulsa over that win and there should be, but it is not an NCAA win and unless they win a few more games against ranked opponents, they will have no chance for an at large bid, so a win against Oakland or somebody in their conference tourney would carry the most weight in the final analysis. And let's face it unless you knock off a Kansas, a Gonzaga, or a Tennesee in the NCAA's no one remembers and no one really cares. So Winthrop beat Marquette early on one year and then lost to a very beatable Tennesee program....yawn. You guys are on some kind of pace for impotency in the NCAA's. You may actually have the record for most NCAA losses without a victory. I certainly don't envy that. Heck, I'll take my these over-reacting LU fans any day over the exaggerated nonsense and over the top hyperbole that see on this board from the Winthropers.

At least at LU, we know who we are and we know that we are far from reaching what we want to be. Who do I envy? Butler. Gonzaga. George Mason. Witicha State. Heck, even Valpo went to the sweet sixteen a few years back. Again, we are far from being where we want to be, but trust me, the goal is not achieving the imagined accomplishments of the Winthrop program.

Winthrop: OVER-RATED. I expect LU to be more than ready come conference tourney time.

In all due respect, if the truth be told. every LU poster on this board would LOVE to be OVER-RATED like WU is. In the history of our progam this has never happened, and we are not on the right track to accomplish it in the near future.
It doesn't sound too cool to bust WU for having the record for the most NCAA losses without a victory, when we don't even smell the NCAA's most years.
We don't have to be great on the floor to show some class off of it.

[paradox]

...

[Hold My Own]

I'm pretty sure I heard BS (the non-abbreviated version) and then saw the ref call the tech...but I could be wrong though. I'm just saying what I thought I heard.

you were sitting behind him...it didnt happen

[LUconn]

apparently, I was watching some other game. They played fine "as a team". What they didn't do fine, was not foul. You can't be in a game when they other team is in the bonus with 12 minutes to go. You pretty much can't play hard defense at that point. We shot ourselves in the foot. And that whole incident didn't help much either. Oh and Tyler Baker was 1-3 shooting. He did fine. I'd acutally like to see him shoot more. He just needs to get into a position to shoot. Oh, lets not forget the team shooting 18% from 3 on the night. 4-22, lets try to get it inside a little more fellas.

[flameshaw]

Flameshaw...

I would have to disagree with your analysis completely. And I don't think that you speak for everyone on this board.

You can't type the words Winthrop or Martin without some Winthrop poster coming on and talking themselves up and trashing your comments.

LIGHTEN UP! I'm just having a little fun with it.. going back and forth a little. It's all a part of being a fan and it's all in fun.

And let me restate: Envy Winthrop.. no way! They are way over-rated. Again, at least we know who we are and where we want to be and if the goal is as you say to be like Winthrop then that surely doesn't say much for us. LU has over 10K students and rising and our potential and expectations should be much higher than a bunch of "moral victories" after dominating a very weak conference.

I never said I spoke for the whole board. As far as WU envy, maybe I should make my thoughts a little more clear. While our goals and expectations may be much higher than reaching the current level of WU, we are making very slow progress doing so. To reach our ultimate goal, we are going to have to leap-frog WU and their successes. Let's not minimize any future LU accomplishments by calling a team, that is clearly much further down the road than ourselves, over rated.

I would not want to think, that improvent to that level would be totally meaningless.

As far as the banter between yourself and the WU fans, you are certainly correct, just some back and forth between athletic supporters. Enjoy.

[paradox]

...

[jmdickens]

did anyone notice last night that Greg Marshall was on the short list of potential Bobby Knight candidates. I think he will leave this time for sure with the amount of exposure WU receives this year, especially if they finally get an NCAA win.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

apparently, I was watching some other game. They played fine "as a team". What they didn't do fine, was not foul. You can't be in a game when they other team is in the bonus with 12 minutes to go. You pretty much can't play hard defense at that point. We shot ourselves in the foot. And that whole incident didn't help much either. Oh and Tyler Baker was 1-3 shooting. He did fine. I'd acutally like to see him shoot more. He just needs to get into a position to shoot. Oh, lets not forget the team shooting 18% from 3 on the night. 4-22, lets try to get it inside a little more fellas.

Thank you... I will take 1-3 right now from a 2 turned 4... He is not a 4, but thats where he plays. Its hard for him to get off a huge number of shots because the plays we run involve screens being set by the post positions. As for some people saying that he isnt showing them anything... I dont see how you could say that, he is one of the best hustlers we have, he is tough, he fights with the best of the post players, and he still will dive on the floor for a loose ball. Its not so much that he is THAT IMPRESSIVE either, but can you honestly say that you are more impressed with rell or hubbard? I think not, and if you are, then obviously youre just listening to Jerry Edwards for every game and dont have a clue whats going on around the ball.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

did anyone notice last night that Greg Marshall was on the short list of potential Bobby Knight candidates. I think he will leave this time for sure with the amount of exposure WU receives this year, especially if they finally get an NCAA win.

They would have to beat us to get to the Tourny and get an NCAA Win

[jcmanson]

Another tough loss. I will reserve my judgement for conference play when I see them play.

[paradox]

...

[paradox]

...

[Realist]

Is paradox Dunton's son? You make me literally laugh out loud. You are dreaming of an NCAA win when you can't beat St. Francis, one of the worst teams in the nation? Whether you like it or not, WU is in every mid major article, is recognized as a mid major powerhouse, and the program will continue to grow. The recruits we are getting are not even comparable to other schools in the conference, they are much better.

You should concentrate on getting to .500 in conference rather than worry about us, that is your next step.

[ALUmnus]

Why was this game not on TV? Freakin christmas tree has taken over that channel.

[TIMSCAR20]

I am not sure but I know we had a budget to do 11 of the 14 home games for Men and all of the women's games. I thought that we would show Lipscomb and not Cincy Christian but they chose to show the home opener instead. I guess folks are off on Christmas break already. I wish we would have shown it because I would have been there of course. With us not doing the game and me leaving for the holidays, I was unable to make it over to Lynchburg last night. Can't wait to see the Asheville game on the web followed by us back on the air Jan 9th vs Radford. Too bad there will probably be less than 1000 people there with winter break.

[PAmedic]

Happy Birthday to coach and for the record- I'm NOT ready to hit this yet

[kel varson]

why is anybody questioning the team's chemestry? They played fine together. I saw some really really good offensive sets for some easy layups tonight. I didn't notice some big gaping holes in the D. I couldn't figure out who kept letting their man go but it kept happening. And when does Larry ever foul out of a game? That's right, never. His first time.


edit: I'm so mad I can't even type coherantly

Brewington and McClean from what I could tell kept losing there men. I think Blair at least once. Brewington and McClean several times. I was never so frustrated. Poor man-to-man d (mostly in the first half) Great rebounding, but poor D. Their pick and roll ate us alive.

We improved a lot in the second half and as scar said in the next post, we did only allow 60 something points, plenty to win.

[TIMSCAR20]

Fellas, I didn't see the game but the defense sounds fine to me. It is basketball, you are not gonna shut people out. 66 points is not a lot of points to give up. We have enough weapons to score more than that most nights but attacking a zone for 40 minutes really hurt us it sounds like. I was hoping to win 2 of the last 3 or at least 1 because of how tough it gets from here to conference. It didn't happen so hopefully we can steal a game or 2 out in Utah. We will see. I can't wait to see Brew in game situations myself. McLean 17 rebounds? That is a monster game and a Vines Center record that he set 2 weeks ago (15). Plenty of time for this team to gel IMO. I really hope we can start to score some points in big possessions. Larry has not shot a good percentage the past 3 games. Hopefully he can find his stroke again.

[kel varson]

No excuse. No freaking excuse. Three games and at least 5-6 practices with the new mix. I refuse to rip any one player—but what I saw tonight at the Furnance was not team basketball at all (although I love what I am seeing out of Brew--contrary to Dickens' remarks in another thread). There is no need to be jacking 3’s up like we did in the first half. We are all out of sync. Team play--that is a COACHING issue. Thank God we can at least rebound—or it would have been worse. If something isn’t done---and done quick---we will be nothing more than a 5-6 seed in the big south. Unacceptable. Yes--I am the one who preached "be patient," but this is ridiculous. We have the talent--so that is not the issue. I am off the good ship lollypop and dumping my Kool-Aid supply.

I leave you with these thoughts.
Turnover in players--leaving on their own and otherwise?
Turnover in the coaching staff--yes, some to better jobs??
Turnover in Athletic Dept admin and support staff--most certainly not on their own??? (We have posters who can attest to that)
My father always told me If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, and swims like a duck, then it is a duck.


Dickens, Nickrichard, and others--maybe you are the ones in the right.

I am OUT.

We jacked up threes because of their zone. No excuse, we weren't ready for their zone. That said, by later in the season we may well equipped to handle it. I still think we should have been ready tonight. 4-22 from 3? I don't think this team has any pure three point shooters--Baker is the closest to that and he doesn't play nearly enough, IMO. Our other shooters are streaky. Brewington shouldn't be shooting. He was terrible at the foul line, and doesn't look like a good outside shooter. Blair is good when he's hot and wide open, same with Smith. With Jenkins the verdict is still out but he's probably a lot like Blair. Most of our three-point looks were contested. The ones that were wide-open we did hit a higher percentage. Other than the two threes, Brewington's has the best shot selection on the team.

[kel varson]

haha ok sorry, but they were AWFUL tonight, i was telling kids "Make sure you finish your education or you will end up like these idiots"

It wasn't the best performance by the ref's but not much worse than usual. So the other team got nearly 20 more foul shots. Why? Because they played a zone and we sat back and shot threes. We played man-to-man, naturally we will foul more. And Anthony Smith did foul the guy when he jumped in the air on the headfake. Get used to it. This is called all the time. Lipscomb played smarter and more disciplined basketball. They deserved to win. Talent wise, I think the two teams were pretty close. Lipscomb was very good, don't be mistaken about that. They were also very beatable.

Here is another intersting thought

If we had any students at the game (lets say attenace around 5k) and they were loud like in 04, most of those tickytack fouls would not be called because of the loud cheering. That happens all the time at Dook. It happened with us in 04. Lots of slapping and handchecking, no whistles.

[kel varson]

Fellas, I didn't see the game but the defense sounds fine to me. It is basketball, you are not gonna shut people out. 66 points is not a lot of points to give up. We have enough weapons to score more than that most nights but attacking a zone for 40 minutes really hurt us it sounds like. I was hoping to win 2 of the last 3 or at least 1 because of how tough it gets from here to conference. It didn't happen so hopefully we can steal a game or 2 out in Utah. We will see. I can't wait to see Brew in game situations myself. McLean 17 rebounds? That is a monster game and a Vines Center record that he set 2 weeks ago (15). Plenty of time for this team to gel IMO. I really hope we can start to score some points in big possessions. Larry has not shot a good percentage the past 3 games. Hopefully he can find his stroke again.

Larry actually shot pretty good. He started forcing things late because the game got out of hand. When he was open he nailing everything. Just needs to be more judicious with his selection. The team shoots way to quick most of the time. Not much transition game against Lipscomb--I think they were too disciplined. Good thing we weren't playing Princeton.

[TIMSCAR20]

Last 3 games:

Blair 7-19
7-20
5-19

That is not shooting well. 19 out of 58 That is about 32 percent and taking a ton of shots. I stand by what I said. Perhaps it is the shot selection but I can't speak to that because I didn't see the last 3 games.