[Humble_Opinion]

for all the success of the programs you mentioned, they let in a good number of clunkers, too.

There's a difference in survival mode and growth mode. When you're trying to survive, you'll take whatever fits. When you're trying to grow, you look for people already growing.

And we aren't growing? Sure - CCU has had some success in the past 6 years in football and I'm sure that helped them win out here (amongst those being considered). However, I hope you understand that they aren't really "growing" their fanbase, their facilities, their campus, and their enrollment at nearly the same pace as us. In fact, it would be laughable for anyone to compare the two because they are incomparable.

What I think everyone is missing here is that we weren't even being considered anymore. That door, in the SBC's mind, closed over a year ago. And I don't care what you say SJ - you're simply wrong if you think winning is the only thing that separated us from CCU. The SBC, in their history, have shown an antipathy to private institutions. LU went to great lengths to assuage any of the angst that SBC representatives may have had and it seems as though it fell on deaf ears. You can blame our history... we've all heard it before and we know it's not perfect. But deep down, we all know it's not that it's not perfect, it's just simply different than the modern, progressive institutions that dominate the HigherEd landscape in the USA. And that is the major reason we were ignored. Winning would not have changed that.

[thepostman]

I do agree that it would seem our private status has more to do with it then our religious affiliation though that doesn't help. It was never really between us and Coastal. It was between Coastal and Eastern Kentucky. No wonder Coastal won out.

[ballcoach15]

Coastal has only been good in baseball and football, (better in baseball). Coastal is a media darling for whatever the reason. I guess it's because they're close to the beach.
I hope they bring up bottom of Sun belt every year and have difficulty funding their sports programs in Sun Belt. The state of South Carolina will probably have to bail them out.

[ATrain]

for all the success of the programs you mentioned, they let in a good number of clunkers, too.

There's a difference in survival mode and growth mode. When you're trying to survive, you'll take whatever fits. When you're trying to grow, you look for people already growing.

And we aren't growing? Sure - CCU has had some success in the past 6 years in football and I'm sure that helped them win out here (amongst those being considered). However, I hope you understand that they aren't really "growing" their fanbase, their facilities, their campus, and their enrollment at nearly the same pace as us. In fact, it would be laughable for anyone to compare the two because they are incomparable.

What I think everyone is missing here is that we weren't even being considered anymore. That door, in the SBC's mind, closed over a year ago. And I don't care what you say SJ - you're simply wrong if you think winning is the only thing that separated us from CCU. The SBC, in their history, have shown an antipathy to private institutions. LU went to great lengths to assuage any of the angst that SBC representatives may have had and it seems as though it fell on deaf ears. You can blame our history... we've all heard it before and we know it's not perfect. But deep down, we all know it's not that it's not perfect, it's just simply different than the modern, progressive institutions that dominate the HigherEd landscape in the USA. And that is the major reason we were ignored. Winning would not have changed that.

Winning may not have changed that, but it wouldn't have hurt either. Yes, our mission is a hindrance, but lack of on-field (specifically: football) and on-court (specifically: men's basketball)success and location in the middle of nowhere don't help.

[rhezick]

My only question is what happened to the rule you had to average 15,000 before you could be invited? Their stadium only seats 9,000 so so much for that.

Great question, one I'm curious about as well. Is the NCAA/SBC just content with a commitment to build/attract that many in a certain timeframe? As someone previously point out... Conway isn't exactly a bustling city, outside of tourists that have no interest in CCU.

[R i]

It will happen. We will be FBS at some point. It isnt as soon as we all would have hoped, but maybe it will be better for us in the long run. Maybe Conference USA , or the BIGEAST , or any number of conferences will come calling. Thats the optimist in me.

Winning isnt everything as youve stated SJ, but it sure would soften the blow of the top 4 on my list.

1) Private
2) Budget
3) Online Academics
4) Political Alliances
5) Winning

[adam42381]

Coastal has only been good in baseball and football, (better in baseball). Coastal is a media darling for whatever the reason. I guess it's because they're close to the beach.
I hope they bring up bottom of Sun belt every year and have difficulty funding their sports programs in Sun Belt. The state of South Carolina will probably have to bail them out.

How Christian of you.

[ATrain]

So does Kennesaw State get the invite to join for all sports?

[ballcoach15]

CCU should not be allowed to join Sun Belt by virture of the stadium seating alone. Heck there are probably high schools that average more than CCU.

Like I say, they are a media darling, and the darlings get favors from NCAA.

[adam42381]

CCU should not be allowed to join Sun Belt by virture of the stadium seating alone. Heck there are probably high schools that average more than CCU.

Like I say, they are a media darling, and the darlings get favors from NCAA.

What media are you referencing?

[VAGolf]

I've refrained from saying much on this recently because I've had several conflicting thoughts and I've tried to not let emotion get in the way. First, congratulations to Coastal Carolina. I never really viewed them as a rival anyway, but those not wishing them well need to reevaluate.

Secondly, I don't believe anyone is absolutely wrong or absolutely right in their belief about why the Sun Belt has shut their door on us. There were probably a lot of reasons that the conference decided to go a different way.

With all of that said, I believe I need to address the elephant in the room. That is the perception we (Liberty fans) have in regards to how conferences should view our school. I've been part of this problem too. When Liberty first announced the new facility upgrades, I think we all knew what our aspirations were and that likely in the near future, we would be in a conference much larger than the Big South. As Liberty conducted studies, the sentiment on this board went from not "if" we were going to move to FBS, but when. And thus, many of us started to believe that Liberty being FBS wasn't a privilege but more of a right.

This is evidenced by the number of people who now want to "sue our way into FBS." If we can't get an invite to the party, than we need to try and force our way in anyways! And in my opinion, the idea that we have a right to be FBS is just plain ridiculous. Maybe it's possible that our approach to joining the Sun Belt was the completely wrong approach to take? And maybe it's possible that everything we proud ourselves on, are actually the exact reasons why the Sun Belt doesn't want us?

Think about it, what about Liberty and the Sun Belt looks like a good fit? The Sun Belt takes pride in being a group of small teams that go and compete with national powers once/twice a year. It's a regional conference filled with small budgets, fan bases and stadiums. We're an international school, with a big budget, a fairly large fan base and the desire to expand our stadium upwards of 50-60k. In recent years, 7 schools have left the Sun Belt, one even left before they ever played a conference game. And while we can say that we'll be committed to the Sun Belt, we all know that as soon as the AAC or C-USA comes calling, we'll bolt. And when you consider that our only goal during this process has been to become FBS at any and all costs, why would the Sun Belt believe anything different? And then throw in the fact that we've broadcasted how enormous our budget is, and the Sun Belt quickly realizes that there is no reasonable "exit fee" that would keep us from moving on.

Our goal has never been to join the Sun Belt, our goal has simply been to become FBS. Additionally, look at how we presented ourselves as #FBSReady. "Liberty has over a billion dollars in assets. Over a hundred thousand students! And our own TV network!" And we didn't just send this message to the Sun Belt, we ensured that any and all conferences heard how big we are. Instead, why didn't we shut up about ourselves and spend out time focusing on how we could grow the Sun Belt over the next five to ten years? Obviously, I wasn't in any of those meetings, so it's fairly impossible to know the angle that Jerry Jr, Jeff Barber and/or Carr used on the Sun Belt. However, based on everything that we have made available to the general public, I think I can make a pretty accurate guess. They know we weren't in love with the idea of being in their conference, we just wanted an invite to the party.

I'm not going to put the blame on Jerry Jr. or Jeff Barber. Despite what I said above, both have done an incredible job taking our school (which was an athletic joke not long ago) and positioning us to even have a chance at an opportunity like this one. However, this idea that we had a "right" to join any conference is just preposterous. If we would have just simply focused on joining the Sun Belt, and not been so focused on "becoming FBS at all costs," I can't help but think that we would have new conference mates by now.

[Humble_Opinion]

My only question is what happened to the rule you had to average 15,000 before you could be invited? Their stadium only seats 9,000 so so much for that.

Great question, one I'm curious about as well. Is the NCAA/SBC just content with a commitment to build/attract that many in a certain timeframe? As someone previously point out... Conway isn't exactly a bustling city, outside of tourists that have no interest in CCU.

The 15,000 attendance rule for Football still exists and is done based on a 2 yr rolling average. There are stipulations for how this count is to be conducted, which are found in the section preceding the noncompliance section listed below. The problem here is getting the NCAA to start enforcing this rule. I think they have been pretty lax on it in recent years.

20.9.9.5 Noncompliance with Football Bowl Subdivision Criteria. [FBS]
20.9.9.5.1 Notice of Noncompliance. [FBS] An institution that fails to satisfy any of the Football
Bowl Subdivision membership requirements shall receive notice of such noncompliance. After receiving
notice, any further noncompliance with the Football Bowl Subdivision requirements within a 10-year period
shall cause the institution to be placed in restricted membership. (Adopted: 8/5/04, Revised: 12/15/06)
20.9.9.5.2 Restricted Membership. [FBS] While in restricted membership, the institution shall not
be eligible for postseason football competition. At the conclusion of the one-year period, the institution
shall be granted membership in its preferred subdivision, provided the institution complies with the subdivision’s
criteria. If the member does not meet the criteria of any subdivision at the end of the restricted
membership period, the institution may continue to be classified as a Division I member in sports other
than football, provided the institution satisfies the Division I membership requirements set forth in Bylaws
20.9.3 through 20.9.7. A Division I member that loses Football Bowl Subdivision status must comply with
the multidivision classification requirements set forth in Bylaw 20.4 to regain such status. (Adopted: 8/5/04,
Revised: 12/15/06)

http://www.ncaapublications.com/product ... s/D116.pdf

[Sly Fox]

Their interpretation of those rules essentially allows a school to buy attendance requirements through unused tickets. Eastern Michigan averages less than most high schools in Michigan and has no fear of being bounced.

[Dr. Sheh]

My only question is what happened to the rule you had to average 15,000 before you could be invited? Their stadium only seats 9,000 so so much for that.

Great question, one I'm curious about as well. Is the NCAA/SBC just content with a commitment to build/attract that many in a certain timeframe? As someone previously point out... Conway isn't exactly a bustling city, outside of tourists that have no interest in CCU.

The 15,000 attendance rule for Football still exists and is done based on a 2 yr rolling average. There are stipulations for how this count is to be conducted, which are found in the section preceding the noncompliance section listed below. The problem here is getting the NCAA to start enforcing this rule. I think they have been pretty lax on it in recent years.

Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember a time when this rule was actually enforced. Schools can fudge the numbers in many ways to hit the 15K mark, so it seems to be a moot point. Eastern Michigan 'averages' barely over 15K, but if anyone has ever watched a game of theirs' it's a FAR lower attendance #. But no one seems to care to enforce the rule.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_ ... e/2014.pdf

I have to imagine there are multiple lower tier schools currently at the FBS level who have not hit the rolling 15K/two year stipulation.

Edit: What Sly said!

[SuperJon]

It will happen. We will be FBS at some point. It isnt as soon as we all would have hoped, but maybe it will be better for us in the long run. Maybe Conference USA , or the BIGEAST , or any number of conferences will come calling. Thats the optimist in me.

Winning isnt everything as youve stated SJ, but it sure would soften the blow of the top 4 on my list.

1) Private
2) Budget
3) Online Academics
4) Political Alliances
5) Winning

That's exactly what I'm saying.

And I'd say you nailed it on your list.

[SuperJon]

VAgolf: that post was perfect.

[TH Spangler]

When Coastal joins Sun Belt in football in 2017, there will be 130 in FBS - 65 each from P5 & G5 

[Purple Haize]

I've refrained from saying much on this recently because I've had several conflicting thoughts and I've tried to not let emotion get in the way. First, congratulations to Coastal Carolina. I never really viewed them as a rival anyway, but those not wishing them well need to reevaluate.

Secondly, I don't believe anyone is absolutely wrong or absolutely right in their belief about why the Sun Belt has shut their door on us. There were probably a lot of reasons that the conference decided to go a different way.

With all of that said, I believe I need to address the elephant in the room. That is the perception we (Liberty fans) have in regards to how conferences should view our school. I've been part of this problem too. When Liberty first announced the new facility upgrades, I think we all knew what our aspirations were and that likely in the near future, we would be in a conference much larger than the Big South. As Liberty conducted studies, the sentiment on this board went from not "if" we were going to move to FBS, but when. And thus, many of us started to believe that Liberty being FBS wasn't a privilege but more of a right.

This is evidenced by the number of people who now want to "sue our way into FBS." If we can't get an invite to the party, than we need to try and force our way in anyways! And in my opinion, the idea that we have a right to be FBS is just plain ridiculous. Maybe it's possible that our approach to joining the Sun Belt was the completely wrong approach to take? And maybe it's possible that everything we proud ourselves on, are actually the exact reasons why the Sun Belt doesn't want us?

Think about it, what about Liberty and the Sun Belt looks like a good fit? The Sun Belt takes pride in being a group of small teams that go and compete with national powers once/twice a year. It's a regional conference filled with small budgets, fan bases and stadiums. We're an international school, with a big budget, a fairly large fan base and the desire to expand our stadium upwards of 50-60k. In recent years, 7 schools have left the Sun Belt, one even left before they ever played a conference game. And while we can say that we'll be committed to the Sun Belt, we all know that as soon as the AAC or C-USA comes calling, we'll bolt. And when you consider that our only goal during this process has been to become FBS at any and all costs, why would the Sun Belt believe anything different? And then throw in the fact that we've broadcasted how enormous our budget is, and the Sun Belt quickly realizes that there is no reasonable "exit fee" that would keep us from moving on.

Our goal has never been to join the Sun Belt, our goal has simply been to become FBS. Additionally, look at how we presented ourselves as #FBSReady. "Liberty has over a billion dollars in assets. Over a hundred thousand students! And our own TV network!" And we didn't just send this message to the Sun Belt, we ensured that any and all conferences heard how big we are. Instead, why didn't we shut up about ourselves and spend out time focusing on how we could grow the Sun Belt over the next five to ten years? Obviously, I wasn't in any of those meetings, so it's fairly impossible to know the angle that Jerry Jr, Jeff Barber and/or Carr used on the Sun Belt. However, based on everything that we have made available to the general public, I think I can make a pretty accurate guess. They know we weren't in love with the idea of being in their conference, we just wanted an invite to the party.

I'm not going to put the blame on Jerry Jr. or Jeff Barber. Despite what I said above, both have done an incredible job taking our school (which was an athletic joke not long ago) and positioning us to even have a chance at an opportunity like this one. However, this idea that we had a "right" to join any conference is just preposterous. If we would have just simply focused on joining the Sun Belt, and not been so focused on "becoming FBS at all costs," I can't help but think that we would have new conference mates by now.

Very well said. And to your detriment approved

[CinciFlame]

If only a couple of you guys were running the athletics program/school we'd be set. Obviously a couple of you have all the answers and are 100% right. Glad you come on to tell all the non thinkers what the truth is.

[SuperJon]

“To our coaches and staff: it was you and your success that brought us to the attention of the Sun Belt Conference.” - Dave Decenzo, CCU president.

[Schfourteenteen]

“To our coaches and staff: it was you and your success that brought us to the attention of the Sun Belt Conference.” - Dave Decenzo, CCU president.

Obviously the point is -

Danny Rocco sux.

[LUconn]

Exactly what I was thinking, Cinciflame.

Some of you view Liberty as Liberty circa 1995 only if they won the lottery. Yes, this school used to do things backwards and found themselves in financial trouble. But last I checked the hundreds of millions of dollars being poured into campus are the fruition of keen investing and excellent leadership. And on top of that its all being reinvested! But lets act like every decision and strategy this school has made was come up with by an administrative lackey and not by consultants who are experts in this field. Some of you need to open your eyes as and associate LU's growth explosion with its decision making

[SuperJon]

“We received this invitation based on what we’ve done, not what we’ve said. Not on what we’ve tried to tell people but on what we’ve shown.” - Matt Hogue

[flamehunter]

“We received this invitation because we're not Liberty

That's more accurate.

[thepostman]

“We received this invitation based on what we’ve done, not what we’ve said. Not on what we’ve tried to tell people but on what we’ve shown.” - Matt Hogue

Why doesn't he just say. "I'm looking at you, Liberty" ?

At least it wouldn't be passive aggressive.

Yes. I admit I am jealous even though the sun belt conference is a joke of a conference. I'm use to being associated with terrible conferences.

I may be salty...