[TheGovernor]

I finally had a chance to sit down and write out a response to this. While I agree with what you're arguing (that Layer shouldn't be fired until the season is over) I disagree with "running a clean program that represents the school well" argument. Everyone keeps saying it and they need to stop.

"He runs a clean program" - There are 351 Division I programs. How many of those do you think "run clean programs?" I would argue 200+ as a low estimate. ANYBODY we hire for ANY position should run a clean program. If they don't, they should see the door. This shouldn't be an argument to keep anyone. This should be a given for anyone we employ, and there are countless options for people we could hire that would run a clean program.

"that represents the school well" - This is what really elicited the L O L response. Being the worst Division I program represents the school well? No. Layer's program is an embarrassment to the school. Conference commissioners and school presidents look at our program and laugh. Former players trash him and the program. Former players tell potential recruits to not come here. Former players excel because they have left Layer's program. He pits players against other players to serve his agenda. Layer used Sommy Ogukwe. He used him for a good mark towards APR numbers. He consistently sold him on playing time to come until he graduated then said he had no more room for him. This is one of many examples. Talk to JR Coronado. Talk to Davon Marshall. Talk to Casey Roberts. (I would put several other names here, but they've asked me to keep their name out of it). Layer has burned bridges with countless former players, those who played under him and those who came before him. You know who pays the most attention to our program? Division II and NAIA programs. Why? Because they're looking for their next star. You don't think Wes Alcegaire could help this team? Alcegaire is averaging 16.6 points and 5.6 boards a game for the best JUCO program in Florida. And he's not the first option on his team. One of his teammates is a high major recruit. Wes will leave this JUCO and play Division I basketball for a school much better than Liberty. Ask him what his motivation is. It's Dale Layer.

True.

Honestly, I would be interested to hear from the people that voted "at the end of his contract" and what their thought process is there. It is interesting to me.

[olldflame]

Scar, respect you deeply, but I stand by my statements.

The negativity on this board is at an all time high. Even in the middle of the FB season, some were calling for Gill's head. They were wrong, and this BB season isn't over either. I'm just going to need a break. I'm a fan, and find it both odd and disturbing how I and others have been ridiculed and even insulted here lately.

and to whomever called Layer a Fool earlier.......Matthew 5:22. It's in the Bible.

Not surprisingly, it was VAGolf who referred to Layer as a fool. I thought about mentioning Matt. 5:22 myself, but decided against it because quite frankly I think it is a stretch to say a literal interpretation of the English translation really applies to how the word was used here. Nonetheless, it was at the least a huge breach of the board's position against personal attacks as well as decency and respect for others in general, not to mention totally inaccurate. Very wise men sometimes do a bad job. I believe that is the case here. He carried it a step further by saying we should "get him off campus". While I too have reached the point where it is hard for me to imagine any scenario in the remainder of this season which would merit Dale keeping his job as head basketball coach, I can easily see how a man of his talents, experience and Christian character would be a tremendous asset in any number of other positions at Liberty University if he decided it was time to make a career change.

[VAGolf]

A fool is one who acts unwisely. In all of his years as Liberty's basketball head coach, when has he acted wisely? It's not a personal attack. He is a FOOLISH basketball coach. I apologize for using hyperbole, but it's pretty custom for any other message board.

I'm glad some of you know him well enough to understand his heart and how much of a Godly man he is. Frankly, I don't know him but I never saw how any of that translated to the team. And if that's deserving of another year as our coach, we might as well hire a preacher for our next coach.

[ballcoach15]

Cannot recruit.

[olldflame]

Acting unwisely does not make you a fool. It makes you a human being. To call a person a fool at the very least they must be living a life characterized by unwise behavior. That is not the case with Dale Layer.

[VAGolf]

Acting unwisely does not make you a fool. It makes you a human being. To call a person a fool at the very least they must be living a life characterized by unwise behavior. That is not the case with Dale Layer.

Broooooooooo, it's called hyperbole. Get...over....it. And it's not even that much of a stretch.

He is a foolish coach.

[olldflame]

A fool is one who acts unwisely. In all of his years as Liberty's basketball head coach, when has he acted wisely? It's not a personal attack. He is a FOOLISH basketball coach. I apologize for using hyperbole, but it's pretty custom for any other message board.

I'm glad some of you know him well enough to understand his heart and how much of a Godly man he is. Frankly, I don't know him but I never saw how any of that translated to the team. And if that's deserving of another year as our coach, we might as well hire a preacher for our next coach.

Only one person I know of has said he deserves another year. As far as how Layer's personal faith has translated to the team, I think the track record of his players behavior off the court has been pretty good compared to some times in the past. Of course that is partly due to the type of kids he signs, and it's possible that priority my have dropped the talent level a notch or 2. I am still a firm believer though that there are enough talented players out there who are a fit for LU, and the right coach will be able to sign them.

[jcmanson]

Only one person I know of has said he deserves another year.

4 voted that he stays another year

[VAGolf]

A fool is one who acts unwisely. In all of his years as Liberty's basketball head coach, when has he acted wisely? It's not a personal attack. He is a FOOLISH basketball coach. I apologize for using hyperbole, but it's pretty custom for any other message board.

I'm glad some of you know him well enough to understand his heart and how much of a Godly man he is. Frankly, I don't know him but I never saw how any of that translated to the team. And if that's deserving of another year as our coach, we might as well hire a preacher for our next coach.

Only one person I know of has said he deserves another year. As far as how Layer's personal faith has translated to the team, I think the track record of his players behavior off the court has been pretty good compared to some times in the past. Of course that is partly due to the type of kids he signs, and it's possible that priority my have dropped the talent level a notch or 2. I am still a firm believer though that there are enough talented players out there who are a fit for LU, and the right coach will be able to sign them.

Based on that they don't get in legal trouble? Congrats on having a team that doesn't violate the law.
I could find you 200 coaches whose players don't have off-court issues, but those coaches actually know how to put together a winning program.

What are some examples of good off-court behavior, that you've seen from Liberty? If this is a reason why you like Layer, then surely you can provide examples of how the players go above and beyond.

[Purple Haize]

Some of their language is certainly salty

[olldflame]

Only one person I know of has said he deserves another year.

4 voted that he stays another year

I actually hadn't cast my vote yet, so I didn't know the results and was going just by the comments. 4 is still a very small minority.

[jcmanson]

Only one person I know of has said he deserves another year.

4 voted that he stays another year

I actually hadn't cast my vote yet, so I didn't know the results and was going just by the comments. 4 is still a very small minority.

Definitely, still more than one though.

[Rooster Cogburn]

It's very difficult to have a desire to come on here and calmly lay out reasons why one thinks the coach should stay when I know the outcome will be negative ridicule. You can read my recent posts and get a clear picture if you take the time. There is no give and take on this board any longer, only the prevaling opinion and smacking down those who don't get in line.

[Purple Haize]

Rooster I love ya buddy but you were asked a question and instead of answering you cry and complain.
Have courage of your convictions. Persuade others. Don't play the Martyr Card
Btw. I'm one of the 4

[olldflame]

A fool is one who acts unwisely. In all of his years as Liberty's basketball head coach, when has he acted wisely? It's not a personal attack. He is a FOOLISH basketball coach. I apologize for using hyperbole, but it's pretty custom for any other message board.

I'm glad some of you know him well enough to understand his heart and how much of a Godly man he is. Frankly, I don't know him but I never saw how any of that translated to the team. And if that's deserving of another year as our coach, we might as well hire a preacher for our next coach.

Only one person I know of has said he deserves another year. As far as how Layer's personal faith has translated to the team, I think the track record of his players behavior off the court has been pretty good compared to some times in the past. Of course that is partly due to the type of kids he signs, and it's possible that priority my have dropped the talent level a notch or 2. I am still a firm believer though that there are enough talented players out there who are a fit for LU, and the right coach will be able to sign them.

Based on that they don't get in legal trouble? Congrats on having a team that doesn't violate the law.
I could find you 200 coaches whose players don't have off-court issues, but those coaches actually know how to put together a winning program.

What are some examples of good off-court behavior, that you've seen from Liberty? If this is a reason why you like Layer, then surely you can provide examples of how the players go above and beyond.

I have basically agreed with you on everything except calling the man a fool. You can try to dress that up as hyperbole all you want, but when it is used the way you used it, it is a personal insult. I suppose the new management may feel differently about it, but that has always been off limits here in the past. Profanity is also considered acceptable on a lot of other message boards. That doesn't mean it should be here.

[jcmanson]

I suppose the new management may feel differently about it, but that has always been off limits here in the past. Profanity is also considered acceptable on a lot of other message boards. That doesn't mean it should be here.

Calling him a fool was probably a bit much, but we have been very lenient on disciplining users for things such as that. I'm not sure if VAGolf calling Layer a fool is much more harsh than some of the insults hurled at BJ.

[PAmedic]

Some of you guys are absolutely exhausting

[VAGolf]

I have basically agreed with you on everything except calling the man a fool. You can try to dress that up as hyperbole all you want, but when it is used the way you used it, it is a personal insult. I suppose the new management may feel differently about it, but that has always been off limits here in the past. Profanity is also considered acceptable on a lot of other message boards. That doesn't mean it should be here.

As a coach, he's a fool.

As a person, I don't know, I've met him once or twice. I don't know him.

I thought that was pretty well understood on a sports message board, in the men's hoops category, in a thread entitled, "When Should we Fire Layer?"

You can tell someone that their bad at their job without insulting them.

[Purple Haize]

I suppose the new management may feel differently about it, but that has always been off limits here in the past. Profanity is also considered acceptable on a lot of other message boards. That doesn't mean it should be here.

Calling him a fool was probably a bit much, but we have been very lenient on disciplining users for things such as that. I'm not sure if VAGolf calling Layer a fool is much more harsh than some of the insults hurled at BJ.

Or by BJ

[Rooster Cogburn]

Rooster I love ya buddy but you were asked a question and instead of answering you cry and complain.
Have courage of your convictions. Persuade others. Don't play the Martyr Card
Btw. I'm one of the 4

It's all here PH. I've listed numerous reasons over numerour posts. No one is changing their mind.

Layer is a big time respected coach.
he is a great fit at LU and a great man of God
9 New players this year. I expected struggle. If you didn't you weren't paying attention. I'm a realist.
he lost his best player / scorer to injury yet again.
Bonds left unexpectedly.
Second winningest coach in program history.
not convinced we could do better without a lengthy rebuilding drop off.
my biggest beef is talking about this mid season. I'm committed to coach his staff and these players to keep working to improve and turn the corner.

There are more but I'm busy.

[jcmanson]

[jcmanson]

Hey RC, can I pick each of your points apart, or will you get mad at me?

[Purple Haize]

Rooster I love ya buddy but you were asked a question and instead of answering you cry and complain.
Have courage of your convictions. Persuade others. Don't play the Martyr Card
Btw. I'm one of the 4

It's all here PH. I've listed numerous reasons over numerour posts. No one is changing their mind.

Layer is a big time respected coach.
he is a great fit at LU and a great man of God
9 New players this year. I expected struggle. If you didn't you weren't paying attention. I'm a realist.
he lost his best player / scorer to injury yet again.
Bonds left unexpectedly.
Second winningest coach in program history.
not convinced we could do better without a lengthy rebuilding drop off.
my biggest beef is talking about this mid season. I'm committed to coach his staff and these players to keep working to improve and turn the corner.

There are more but I'm busy.

See. That wasnt so hard.
However....
Having that many new players only matters if you had a great season before
Mel Hankinson was a respected Coach. So was RMK. So are lots of people. Not sure it's a valid comparison
2nd Winningnest coach is deceptive. He's been here the second longest and had much better resources than the Winningest Coach
Injury is somewhat valid
Finally, as for a drop off, we actually can't get any lower unless we start losing to the NAIA and lower schools we schedule

See. Reasoned response

[olldflame]

I have basically agreed with you on everything except calling the man a fool. You can try to dress that up as hyperbole all you want, but when it is used the way you used it, it is a personal insult. I suppose the new management may feel differently about it, but that has always been off limits here in the past. Profanity is also considered acceptable on a lot of other message boards. That doesn't mean it should be here.

As a coach, he's a fool.

As a person, I don't know, I've met him once or twice. I don't know him.

I thought that was pretty well understood on a sports message board, in the men's hoops category, in a thread entitled, "When Should we Fire Layer?"

You can tell someone that their bad at their job without insulting them.

Yes, you can. Saying "get this fool off of campus" is not how you do it.

Yeah, I know. It was hyperbole.

[bballfan84]

I personally think we should just can him now...what are we waiting on..