[VAGolf]

Go ahead - tell me I'm completely off for even suggesting this, but before you do, think back to tonight. Think back to EVERY freaking close loss we've ever had, think back to every loss we've had to in-state teams, think back to every close loss we've ever had to conference teams.

I've been quiet, especially on the basketball side of things. Honestly, once conference play started, I wanted to give Layer and Barber a chance. I gave them a chance to prove me wrong about my view of Liberty athletics. I gave them a chance to prove that there is nothing behind our close losses and that we can be a great team.

Saturday, I attended the game against High Point and I have to admit that I saw flashes of greatness. I saw what could have been 3 SC Top Ten nominations in just the one game. It was awesome, for the five minutes it lasted. Everything else was utterly depressing and watching my school get the life sucked out of them by a team that isn't half as good as we are, was typical life in the day of a Liberty fan. Even after that terrible fiasco, I decided to give Liberty a shot. You know the story, we have NEVER won inside Longwood's current gymnasium. Never. 0-11 heading into tonight. My thought process was that if we could respond from adversity, with a win at Longwood, I would keep riding this coaster. I actually expected us to respond and run the floor with the Lancers. Yet, here we are again, and another meltdown inside that gym in Farmville.

Which brings me to my completely ridiculous point/opinion; I wish we wouldn't have won the Big South tournament last year. There, I said it. I wish we would have gotten knocked out in the first round by 20 points. Because we won the Big South tournament, our under 10 win regular season was broadcasts throughout the nation. Essentially, we were a team that didn't belong in the tournament. We went into that play-in game and did exactly what we do best, we lost at the last minute. Despite the treacherous season that last year was, and despite losing yet another close game, Layer was awarded with another year. He was awarded with another chance. Here we are again, another terrible season, another loss at Longwood and nothing positive to talk about. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

Before you attempt to completely trash my opinion, think about this, imagine if we had lost in the first round (of BS tourney) last season? Layer gets fired, we show that we're serious about winning and we won't put up with 7 win seasons in this conference. Win/win. Because Layer won, we've basically sent the message, "You can be as terrible as you want here, but as long as you have the capacity to win a few games in a row, we'll keep you around." I hate that. Why keep mediocrity around?

Lastly, what really pisses me off is that Longwood has a bunch of kids from VA. A bunch of kids from VA, at some glorified high-school, in the middle of no-where whooped us. How does this not infuriate the rest of you? Honestly, why can't we put on a show when we go on the road at in-state schools? I don't care if we go to Sam Houston State and pull off a "big" win. No one there knows who we are. EVERYONE at Longwood knows who Liberty is. So does everyone at JMU. So does everyone at Radford. So does everyone at Norfolk State. So does everyone at ODU. So does everyone at Richmond.So does everyone at VCU. So does everyone at Mason. So does everyone at W&M. So does everyone at Hampton. They all know who Liberty is, we are a household name. The problem is that we are a household name of embarrassment, and because we won a few games against some crappy BS teams last season, we'll be an embarrassment for another year.

[flameshaw]

Don't see a lot of room for disagreement. We have fallen quite a distance since the early-mid 90's and the days of Peter Aluma, Julius N, Matt Hildebrand, etc. Those teams were MUCH better than the product we put on the floor today. We were actually a basketball school back in those days. Hopefully we can capture some of the magic of the by-gone glory days.

[GillsHill2013]

As a student I cant find myself going to any games. Other than and occasional dunk from smith, the games are boring and the team finds a way to lose against teams that puts out half the amount of money liberty does into the program. This all falls back on the coach. He brings in subpar athletes that should be D2 players. Our team returned most of the team except for speaks and were still losing. Doesn't add up to me ???

[ludlpstudent]

Its all about coaching and recruiting. Layer can do neither. At least Mckay could recruit.

[flameshaw]

As a student I cant find myself going to any games. Other than and occasional dunk from smith, the games are boring and the team finds a way to lose against teams that puts out half the amount of money liberty does into the program. This all falls back on the coach. He brings in subpar athletes that should be D2 players. Our team returned most of the team except for speaks and were still losing. Doesn't add up to me ???

We lost most of our games last year. It wasn't until the tournament that we got hot for a few games and then lost to a nobody in the play-in game. Pretty embarrassing. Not sure what the answer is, but current status isn't working very well.

[SuperJon]

The coach is the easy place to look. I think some of this falls on him because he's the leader, but there's only so much he can do about chemistry and trust. The players have said multiple times that they don't trust each other. That's a player thing, not a coach thing.

[Purple Haize]

The coach is the easy place to look. I think some of this falls on him because he's the leader, but there's only so much he can do about chemistry and trust. The players have said multiple times that they don't trust each other. That's a player thing, not a coach thing.

The Dark Side oozes from you Padawan

[BJWilliams]

What do you think about teambuilding exercises like maybe a trip to fort Benning or something in preseason

[Purple Haize]

What do you think about teambuilding exercises like maybe a trip to fort Benning or something in preseason

There are bunch of options. The NCAA allows teams to take trips in the off season but none of that helps right now

[SuperJon]

They did that. It didn't work.

[jinxy]

The trust issue stems from 2-3 guys and one graduated last year. The talent issue and substitution patterns are layer. Layer roberts donley and ogukwe are all whiffs. Thats 4 roster spots that are absolutely dead. Thats on layer for recruiting not 1 but 3 of the same players that arent d1 players

[Lburglifer]

The political posturing is fun to sit back and watch. Isn't this year 5 for Layer...who is responsible for the talent the last two years. LU just lost to two teams that were a combined 4-25 vs D1 competition and one at home. We finished 10th in BSC last year. Yet some on year sell the direction as positive.

[ballcoach15]

We have got to start recruiting better. There are not very many true D1 players on the roster. This isn't intended to offend anyone, but facts are facts. We need more shooters, better ball handling, more athletic players who can run the floor. Plus we need that one "go to player" that can score 16-20 points most EVERY night and some nights hit for 30. We have too many players that score 15 one night and 4 the next.

[Lburglifer]

We have got to start recruiting better. There are not very many true D1 players on the roster. This isn't intended to offend anyone, but facts are facts. We need more shooters, better ball handling, more athletic players who can run the floor. Plus we need that one "go to player" that can score 16-20 points most EVERY night and some nights hit for 30. We have too many players that score 15 one night and 4 the next.

Are the seniors responsible for the lack of talent?

[SuperJon]

I'm pretty sure that was a dig at my comments so I'll bite.

I'm not saying there is absolutely no blame on Layer. What I'm saying is that there are times that you have to look deeper than the coach to analyze the results. The lack of talent falls totally on Coach Layer, although you could make a case that Jason Eaker losing his job hurt this year's recruiting class. The substitution patterns fall on Layer. The playing guys that shouldn't be played falls on Layer. I'm a huge fan of Dale Layer but those are things that you can't overlook.

What I'm saying is that this year may not be solely on him. He's spent four years building to this year: a senior-laden team coming off of an NCAA tournament run. He had everything set up for it all to come together and click this year. What has happened is that there have been personality, chemistry, and trust issues that have gotten in the way of what he was doing. The best game plan can't win a game when guys take 4-8 minutes off and stop playing. Maybe the players stopped listening. Maybe they don't like each other. Maybe they don't like him. There's a billion different things that could've happened, but what is completely evident is that these players don't trust either other on the court.

Layer deserves his blame, but you can't blame him without blaming the players as well. It's rarely ever the fault of one person.

[thepostman]

I see where this is going. I want LU basketball to be successful because I love LU but I also want to finally get away from every men's basketball conversation creeping towards a certain direction.

[LUconn]

What's the deal with the talk about no talent? Every time I watch this team play I'm amazed that they lose. There are some VERY good pieces on this team. All the more frustrating that they keep losing to garbage teams.

[Purple Haize]

What's the deal with the talk about no talent? Every time I watch this team play I'm amazed that they lose. There are some VERY good pieces on this team. All the more frustrating that they keep losing to garbage teams.

That's sort of the rub. Either we have enough talent to win more of these close games, which puts much of the onus on them or we don't have enough talent to win these games which puts the onus on the coaches.
I think we have some talent but it isn't very deep. With Layer, Donley and Roberts you have 3 non D1 scholarship players in your rotation. Sanders is at best a D1 bench/role player. So that makes you think its lack of talent.
But then you look at Gielo, Antwan, Smith and Coranado and you have a very solid front line for this level.
Marshal is an enigma but a streaky shooter
Then you have IMO to question marks in Retic and Wes. I THINK they are solid D1 talents at this level but they are not getting time because of the first group.

It's never as easy as it seems

[VAGolf]

You guys are being too technical. Look, I agree that this probably isn't completely on Layer, but when you accept a Head Coaching position, you assume 90% of the responsibility of the team. Sometimes there are certain aspects of the organization, bad ownership (professional sports) or bad directors (college sports) that can influence how well your team performs. But I fully believe that even if Layer isn't directly to blame for the losses, he still deserves the blame, he's the head coach. He didn't just arrive at campus either, he's been here for a while. We should be seeing some results by now.

Truthfully, I am a bigger proponent of leadership consistency versus firing your head coach or manager every time things get rough. However, I think when an organization plateaus, you need to reevaluate things. There is nothing about this team or our future classes, that suggests to me different results. We're plateauing and we aren't even competitive. And in my opinion, the WORST part about this is that there is so much talent within 300 miles of Lynchburg.

I hope whoever replaces Layer isn't some "star" hire. I hope we go after a D2 or NAIA coach who no one has ever heard of. Give him $150,000 and let him become a star. Instead of hiring a past success, find the next success.

[Lburglifer]

I see where this is going. I want LU basketball to be successful because I love LU but I also want to finally get away from every men's basketball conversation creeping towards a certain direction.

What do you think fans are going to say when a program is given ridiculous budgets and can't find its way to the top three in the BSC? Many of us love the University doesn't mean we have to agree with a direction that breeds a subpar performance. Like I have said maybe the troops rally and we can all sit back and cheer. Those who think the current handling of the program is the best way will roll around like pigs in mud. If not you will have to come to the realization that those leading the way may be the problem.

[BJWilliams]

Checkers is that you? while I along with many others are frustrated with how the team has done this year, your spiel got old a long time ago

[thepostman]

I see where this is going. I want LU basketball to be successful because I love LU but I also want to finally get away from every men's basketball conversation creeping towards a certain direction.

What do you think fans are going to say when a program is given ridiculous budgets and can't find its way to the top three in the BSC? Many of us love the University doesn't mean we have to agree with a direction that breeds a subpar performance. Like I have said maybe the troops rally and we can all sit back and cheer. Those who think the current handling of the program is the best way will roll around like pigs in mud. If not you will have to come to the realization that those leading the way may be the problem.

You clearly don't read my posts.

[olldflame]

The trust issue stems from 2-3 guys and one graduated last year. The talent issue and substitution patterns are layer. Layer roberts donley and ogukwe are all whiffs. Thats 4 roster spots that are absolutely dead. Thats on layer for recruiting not 1 but 3 of the same players that arent d1 players

IMHO you are 1 for 4. Ethan Layer is not on scholarship. You can argue that he shouldn't be getting as much PT as he is, but you can't call him a recruiting whiff. Roberts was also signed as a walkon, but later EARNED a schollie when another player left by making significant contributions on the floor. His role is reduced this year because we are going with 3 bigs. Sommy showed a lot of promise his freshman year primarily due to his explosive athleticism. Then he tore his ACL, and he hasn't been the same. Supposedly he is 100% sound physically now, but mentally he doesn't seem to trust the leg to hold up and therefore doesn't make the explosive plays he needs to make to be the player he is capable of being. Pretty harsh to blame the coach because a player suffers a major injury.

Chad Donley is a whiff.

[VAGolf]

I absolutely think you can blame the coach for injuries. Some coaches are known having the well conditioned teams (check out VCU). Layer has the power to keep the team in the up-most condition. There have been a lot of injuries ever since he's been here.

Even if you don't want to blame the coach for the injuries, you're still just creating an excuse. The great coaches find ways to win regardless of injuries.

[Lburglifer]

I absolutely think you can blame the coach for injuries. Some coaches are known having the well conditioned teams (check out VCU). Layer has the power to keep the team in the up-most condition. There have been a lot of injuries ever since he's been here.

Even if you don't want to blame the coach for the injuries, you're still just creating an excuse. The great coaches find ways to win regardless of injuries.

VAGolf it is apparent that a % of posters will go to the wall to defend the direction. I had dinner tonight with a former booster who said "the talent is not near what it was and my family no longer attends." So it seems that your opinion will fight an uphill battle and a barrage of calculated challenges. Never the less the fleeting fan base has voiced their opinion. And please attendance still happens where programs are built. Maybe they can get a road win at Coastal.