[Purple Haize]

I think thats true a lot of games but jc played pretty well today. He and gielo carried the offense. No matter how frustrating he is to watch sometimes he is the only real threat that we have that can penetrate and finish. I still cant believe layer continues to get crucial minutes. He is nothing more than a spot up shooter

He got a slew of his points at the end when Princeton was playing 'prevent defense'
And that's just it, he THINKS he can consistently finish at the rim but he can't. He gets bailed out more than Noah did on the Ark. But that aside he gets his shot blocked or throws up a triple clutch behind the head shot that has no chance as oft as it goes in.
Princeton did a great job early with their penetration defense. Love the way they play it. Maybe because it's how I was taught

[libertyfan4life]

For what it's worth, I had seen on Facebook that it's Gielo's birthday.

So, it was probably nice for him play a good game on his day.

It's hard sometimes being an international student. Especially on days like holidays, birthdays, celebrations away from family back home. I'm happy for him from the perspective.

Good game Tomasz!

[Lburglifer]

Entertaining game. A battle of soft defenses so it was who could make the open three's and not turn it over in critical possessions. I think Princeton started 2nd half 0-11 from 3pt. Big block shot by Princeton that would have put LU up 9 and Princeton got a lay-up out of it. Smith & Sanders huge turnovers. LU should be ok in what looks to be a down year in BSC, but they seems to be confusion in roles accept for Sanders who wants to score and today he did. But not good enough to beat Princeton today. Reading Lang's articles it is like the expectation is that this team with a ton of returners must still learn how to play...1-3 at home and 0-5 on road in D1 games...I thought it would be better coming off BSC Tournament run.

[libertyfan4life]

I was not aware of this but Lang had said in his write up on the game today that this was a "Tigers’ team that entered Saturday ranked in the top 50 in the RPI."

I was actually a little surprised to hear that Priceton was that high in the RPI.

IMHO I'd rather play Princetons (lose but learn), than Brevards (win but yawn).

[Cider Jim]

To be fair, when Coronados man was on the wing they took him straight to the hole

I kept thinking, JR is too slow against this Princeton offense: every time he got the ball in the paint, he felt like he had to take that one meaningless dribble, which slowed him up even more. Without Burrus, I really liked the 3 bigs lineup of Gielo, Smith, and Vander Pol.

Regarding JC, I felt like yesterday he did his best-ever impression of Jesse, the way he kept driving the lane and drawing the fouls: and he was 9-10 from the free throw line. He led all scorers with 25 points, yet Coach Haize would have him riding the bench.

[jcmanson]

Here's our game story - http://www.libertyflamesnation.com/prin ... ts-flames/

[jcmanson]

I'm so upset right now I can't even think straight. I'll post more when I settle down. But today was just totally unacceptable. You can't have a team like this come in hype the game to the locals and then lay an egg by NOT HAVING ANY NACHOs! Ridiculous.

Ha! This was probably the only game of the year my wife AND daughter made it, and there were no nachos which my wife was looking forward to and no Sparky! My daughter loves Sparky and I had to explain to her he was "sick" for 6 hours straight last night.

Oh and the new luxury suites will be nice, but now we only have 1 concession stand. With the students not even there, my wife tells me the lines were brutal. Not to mention they only had popcorn and hot dogs.

I don't know why our Admin doesn't put much effort into the basketball team.

[jcmanson]

I wonder if we could have beaten them with Burrus?

SCAR of course was there, and I looked but saw no sign of Purple (he was probably in the non-nacho line); I did think I saw RD there--the place was packed with celebrities!

Princeton fans were there on both sides of the Vines, decked out in their orange and black: don't know if they traveled down or if we have that many Princeton alums in the area.

Yes RD was there also Mike Brown.

[Purple Haize]

Regarding JC, I felt like yesterday he did his best-ever impression of Jesse, the way he kept driving the lane and drawing the fouls: and he was 9-10 from the free throw line. He led all scorers with 25 points, yet Coach Haize would have him riding the bench.

Being the leading scorer can be a deceptive stat. Take a look at how many times he drove into the lane and had it blocked, missed a shot or missed a shot because he was doing some gyration to draw the foul or get off a shot or turned it over. Take a look at how many times he looks to pass first as opposed to drive to the basket. As was witnessed in the Tournament game, officials, especially good ones, are not going to bail him out on those drives. 4 of those FT's were at the end and were fouls out front and were when Princeton was playing prevent defense. Now, bringing him off the bench to be a spark plug or some quick offense would be the perfect spot for him, a la Vinnie Johnson. I did when someone started chanting 'You're Not Jesse'
Yeah, Coronado's strength is not low post offense. He's perfect in his role as post defender and rebounder. He is what every team needs. With Burrus out maybe he wanted to try and score, and we probably should have dumped it down to him more to rack up Princeton's foul count. But that is not something we did well, especially down the stretch.

[Bigsouthking]

Are you saying that a lot of our problems are from Sanders and a me first mentality? I'm not suggesting anything as I haven't seen a game this season, but that wouldn't be the first time I'd heard that.

I'm saying there is a lack of trust and chemistry on this team. The ball moves much better and players are more 'engaged' when he is not the primary ball handler or on the floor. There is a difference between passing the ball when you have no where else to go and passing the ball to set up your team mates. He does the first a lot more than he does the second. Sure it shows up as an assist but stats can be deceiving. As the PG / primary ball handler it is on your shoulders to understand where the best match ups are and who is hot, especially as a senior. This afternoon Princeton did a great job backing him into the post and just abusing him. (To be fair, when Coronados man was on the wing they took him straight to the hole) But then it seemed Sanders wanted to get in a Mano y Mano contest and that's when the game changed.
But, my wife who is wise in these things and I started talking. Maybe next year LU will be better because he is gone. Maybe we haven't really seen what Layer can do with his system because the primary ball handler doesn't fit/buy in to Layers system. If the recruiting class is as good as advertised she may be on to something

Don't agree with this last part of your post about Layer system, didn't Layer recruit Sanders to play in his system?? Why should we have to wait til next year?? You got any idea what the system is? I am a critic of JC but this isn't on him, he's been there 4 years...

[Chris Lang]

Closing thoughts:

http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liber ... 0f31a.html

[Cider Jim]

All good points there, Haize. You should come over and sit in our corner sometime, next to the padded seats.

And quite an interesting stat by Lang, which was a game changer:

STAT OF THE GAME: Liberty only had 10 turnovers, about five below its season average. But they were killers, as Princeton turned those 10 giveaways into 18 points.

[Purple Haize]

All good points there, Haize. You should come over and sit in our corner sometime, next to the padded seats.

And quite an interesting stat by Lang, which was a game changer:

STAT OF THE GAME: Liberty only had 10 turnovers, about five below its season average. But they were killers, as Princeton turned those 10 giveaways into 18 points.

I think several people over there have restraining orders against me in that section

[Lburglifer]

Lang's comments about pre-conference D1 record caused some browsing.

'11-12': 2-9
'12-13': 2-10
"13-14': 3-9
So seniors did get LU one more win. But it is all about the BSC?

[flameshaw]

[/quote]Don't agree with this last part of your post about Layer system, didn't Layer recruit Sanders to play in his system?? Why should we have to wait til next year?? You got any idea what the system is? I am a critic of JC but this isn't on him, he's been there 4 years...[/quote]

Maybe Layer is from the Hanky school, and he is still putting in his system, after all this time. .

[Purple Haize]

Closing thoughts:

http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liber ... 0f31a.html

THIS

5. In each of the last two games, Layer mentioned fatigue as a factor during some key stretches in which the Flames broke down defensively. Marshall played 36 minutes Saturday and Sanders played 37, and Joe Retic, who had been playing well of late, was on the floor for just 10 minutes. Layer started Casey Roberts, but Roberts played just five minutes. I’m not entirely sure why the distribution of minutes was so skewed Saturday. Layer must have thought Roberts and Retic were defensive liabilities, as defensive success tends to correlate to playing time in his system.

Unless Retic is a discipline problem that we don't know about there is no way Roberts is a better defensive player than Retic. When we played that 3-2 with Gielo's length up top with Retic and Marshall's speed it caused Princeton some issues. Put Burress in there with either JVP, Smith or Coronado you've got a nice defensive line up with a lot of scoring options. We have several non D1 level players on our bench. Retic isn't one of them.

And can I at least get a contributors credit for this:
"There’s something about the on-court chemistry that hasn’t entirely clicked yet."

[flamehunter]

And can I at least get a contributors credit for this:
"There’s something about the on-court chemistry that hasn’t entirely clicked yet."

Haize, you know if Lang Admitted that you were his source he would be committing career suicide.

[Purple Haize]

And can I at least get a contributors credit for this:
"There’s something about the on-court chemistry that hasn’t entirely clicked yet."

Haize, you know if Lang Admitted that you were his source he would be committing career suicide.

That's a very good point

[Chippy]

There is a lot of pressure on JC for the simple fact that he is the only one who can penetrate with effectiveness and score off the dribble. With the size of guards he and Marshall have had to contend with this is a way to score. Our forwards/centers (aside from Burrus) can't/won't shoot from 1 foot from the basket and are not a offensive threat. That puts it on Marshall and Sanders and Gielo when he's playing with confidence to carry the offensive load. We can see how defenses have neutralized Marshall. He is unable to dribble drive and penetrate as effectively as Sanders. Most of Marshall's misses are off the dribble. He's a pure standup shooter. This further puts pressure on Sanders to force defenses out of their comfort zone and hopefully some kickouts to the wings/Marshall. I thought JC had a great game yesterday, he is fearless like his brother but sometimes thinks he has Jesse's height which can get him in trouble. If Gielo can be a consistent offensive threat that would go a long way to making the team more effectively on the offense - he needs to be offensively aggressive every game like he was yesterday- he's 6'9" for goodness sakes. Let him post up smaller defenders and take advantage of his height or shoot over shorter defenders. He needs to be more of a part of the offense. He finished about 3 or 4 drives in the paint against a good defender yesterday.

[jinxy]

Haize, i didnt say jc is great at it. I Simply said hes the only one that can finish. We can trash him but we really dont have that much offense without him, especially with burrus out. I still think donley layer and roberts are all the same player and only 1 should play at all. Has wes impressed anyone else enough (besides me) to think he should be getting a shot at those guys time? Also if gielo plays like that and we get burrus back we can def win a lot
Of conf. Games

[Purple Haize]

There is a lot of pressure on JC for the simple fact that he is the only one who can penetrate with effectiveness and score off the dribble.

That's just the point, he CANT finish effectively off the dribble. Part of it is as you say, he's not as tall as his brother but more than that he's not as skilled as his brother. That's not a bad thing considering who his brother is/was. I do see Gielo able to get to the rim and finish consistently. I also think Retic can as well. He also only looks to pass when he gets in trouble as opposed to making his teammates better. It seems he has the mentality that it's all up to him to get things done by himself when things get a bit rough instead of getting/keeping his teammates involved. Yesterday was a perfect example. Gielo and Marshall were having solid to great games. Do what you have to do to get them the ball. It's something his brother would have done.

JINXY- I'm with you on Conley/Roberts/Layer. If defense is what they put an emphasis on, I find it difficult to believe that those 3 are ahead of Wes. I think its safe to say we've had some misses in our recruiting

[Bigsouthking]

Purple,

You are a tad off on the comparison of the 2 Sanders kids....JC is more skilled than Jesse... Jesse was a drive to pass, never shoot type player, JC can shoot and is way offensively aggressive looking to score..Jesse bigger body, head up type player.

Marshall cannot create, Geilo is a shooter, Retic isn't probably comfortable yet, but is a penetrator.... JC attacks because after they pass the ball around for 30 seconds, someone has to look to score at some point.... He does it because he has too...
Lay off the kid. When has the Layer system ever created an easy basket for any player?? Again why do we have to wait til next year for new crop to fit a system-- that's a question for your earlier post regarding your wife's comments??

This team misses Speaks.

[Purple Haize]

Purple,

You are a tad off on the comparison of the 2 Sanders kids....JC is more skilled than Jesse... Jesse was a drive to pass, never shoot type player, JC can shoot and is way offensively aggressive looking to score..Jesse bigger body, head up type player.

Marshall cannot create, Geilo is a shooter, Retic isn't probably comfortable yet, but is a penetrator.... JC attacks because after they pass the ball around for 30 seconds, someone has to look to score at some point.... He does it because he has too...
Lay off the kid. When has the Layer system ever created an easy basket for any player?? Again why do we have to wait til next year for new crop to fit a system-- that's a question for your earlier post regarding your wife's comments??

This team misses Speaks.

Disagree with your JC / Jesse comparison. If I was choosing I'd take the kid who can make others better.
I'll agree with Marshall but not Gielo He got to the rim pretty easily yesterday and with his long frame can finish over or around his defender.
It's a myth that the only reason JC drives to the bucket is because the shot clock is winding down. He does it early and often in the shot clock. He does it because he wants to not because he has to. He rarely if ever looked for an entry pass yesterday. The same can't be said about Marshal Gielo or the other players. You create easy baskets by moving and screening. It's difficult to move and screen when your primary ball handler puts his head down and dribbles the air out of the ball. Princeton got GREAT looks yesterday and the ball rarely touched the floor in their offense.
As for waiting till next year, it could be addition by subtraction. If you lose a player who dominates the ball doing their own thing and return kids who trust each other and buy in, along with having talented players come in that is a recipe for success.

[Bigsouthking]

I'm not saying I would take JC over Jesse... I'm saying on this team the kid does what he has to do... No way they can be better next season after graduating 6 seniors. Layers teams always start slow except for 1 season, no way 6 new guys come in and start fast.

[Purple Haize]

I'm not saying I would take JC over Jesse... I'm saying on this team the kid does what he has to do... No way they can be better next season after graduating 6 seniors. Layers teams always start slow except for 1 season, no way 6 new guys come in and start fast.

Totally disagree with him doing what he 'has to do'. Proof? Look at the Tournament run last year. The ball was dominated by other players, he took more of a complimentary role and the team succeeded. I gave several examples of how he can change his game to better the team. So its not a case of doing what he HAS to do.
As for next year I'm not saying you are wrong. But there are plenty of situations where teams graduated a lot of players and were better a year later. The key is how good are the Freshmen coming in.