[Purple Haize]

Course going 1-10 and Karcher getting fired kinda changes things a bit...

But I thought wins didn't matter?

[BJWilliams]

Remember PH...the dismissal of Karcher was not JB's call if memory serves me correctly.

[thepostman]

JB wasn't here yet

[Purple Haize]

Remember PH...the dismissal of Karcher was not JB's call if memory serves me correctly.

What does that have to do with anything?

[thepostman]

does that ever matter?

[LUnpretty11]

Let's not kid ourselves. Our entire athletic program is far ahead of where it was 7+ years ago. Even if there was a 7 year plan to go FBS, there was no way that the athletic program was actually going to make it happen with the minimal resources, facilities, and overall production at that time. You cannot honestly tell me we should have been FBS 6-7 years ago, or that we were ready. We were not. We have positioned ourselves to actually have an argument about getting in. There are a lot, A LOT of things we have not yet accomplished, but the culture has changed and we have developed an an expectation of being an overall winning program in all phases. We have seen a change of scene on the mountain over the last 7 years and that will produce the championships we want and the highest level of competition we want as well. As frustrating as it is, this is not the time to give up on the direction of our athletic program. The best years are still ahead of us.

[BJWilliams]

Karcher had a plan to have LU in what is now FBS in 5-7 years (no doubt with the AD or JLFSR's blessing at the time). He got fired after what would have been year 4 of the plan, which was one of Dr Falwell's last moves before JB came in, though an old misconception was that JB was behind that move. Anyways. I do doubt, even if JB WAS the AD at that point, that he would have signed onto that sort of a plan even in the fourth year after a 1-10 season where we got destroyed in 3 straight games, especially under the circumstances Pretty explained. BTW how are you and Mrs Pretty doing?

[Sly Fox]

Going FBS was a completely different experience a decade ago as opposed to where things stand now. Back then, all you had to do was declare and step right up under some rather weak attendance standards. That led to a flood of schools that had no business stepping up. That is why the challenge is so great today to make the move up. Northeastern State (aka Louisiana-Monroe) had a much easier path with considerably less resources.

[Purple Haize]

Let's not kid ourselves. Our entire athletic program is far ahead of where it was 7+ years ago. Even if there was a 7 year plan to go FBS, there was no way that the athletic program was actually going to make it happen with the minimal resources, facilities, and overall production at that time. You cannot honestly tell me we should have been FBS 6-7 years ago, or that we were ready. We were not. We have positioned ourselves to actually have an argument about getting in. There are a lot, A LOT of things we have not yet accomplished, but the culture has changed and we have developed an an expectation of being an overall winning program in all phases. We have seen a change of scene on the mountain over the last 7 years and that will produce the championships we want and the highest level of competition we want as well. As frustrating as it is, this is not the time to give up on the direction of our athletic program. The best years are still ahead of us.

Expectations are nice. Reality is another matter entirely. We weren't ready 10 years ago during the 7 year plan to be 1AA and we are not ready now. No one is giving up anything. But history has shown that SAYING and DOING are2 different things. It will be nice and I'll be the first to applaud when we actually do something.

[Purple Haize]

Going FBS was a completely different experience a decade ago as opposed to where things stand now. Back then, all you had to do was declare and step right up under some rather weak attendance standards. That led to a flood of schools that had no business stepping up. That is why the challenge is so great today to make the move up. Northeastern State (aka Louisiana-Monroe) had a much easier path with considerably less resources.

So it would have been easier under the 7 year plan. Which is now a 15-20 year plan

[LUnpretty11]

Let's not kid ourselves. Our entire athletic program is far ahead of where it was 7+ years ago. Even if there was a 7 year plan to go FBS, there was no way that the athletic program was actually going to make it happen with the minimal resources, facilities, and overall production at that time. You cannot honestly tell me we should have been FBS 6-7 years ago, or that we were ready. We were not. We have positioned ourselves to actually have an argument about getting in. There are a lot, A LOT of things we have not yet accomplished, but the culture has changed and we have developed an an expectation of being an overall winning program in all phases. We have seen a change of scene on the mountain over the last 7 years and that will produce the championships we want and the highest level of competition we want as well. As frustrating as it is, this is not the time to give up on the direction of our athletic program. The best years are still ahead of us.

Expectations are nice. Reality is another matter entirely. We weren't ready 10 years ago during the 7 year plan to be 1AA and we are not ready now. No one is giving up anything. But history has shown that SAYING and DOING are2 different things. It will be nice and I'll be the first to applaud when we actually do something.

Revert back to my first post. When expectations and reality don't line up then disappointment ensues. Our athletic department is undoubtedly ready for FBS, but the performance on the field has not lived up to the expectation that is brought on by the fact that we are prepared for the next move. We have set records in just about every sport. Built amazing facilities. We have record support. We have what it takes, so the frustration is losing back to back games in the 4th qtr. Not qualifying for playoffs (as it stands right now) for another year when the talent is there. That's the frustrating part and nobody denies that. But frustration does not mean we are not ready.

[LUnpretty11]

Going FBS was a completely different experience a decade ago as opposed to where things stand now. Back then, all you had to do was declare and step right up under some rather weak attendance standards. That led to a flood of schools that had no business stepping up. That is why the challenge is so great today to make the move up. Northeastern State (aka Louisiana-Monroe) had a much easier path with considerably less resources.

So it would have been easier under the 7 year plan. Which is now a 48 hour plan

FIFY

[Purple Haize]

Revert back to my first post. When expectations and reality don't line up then disappointment ensues. Our athletic department is undoubtedly ready for FBS, but the performance on the field has not lived up to the expectation that is brought on by the fact that we are prepared for the next move. We have set records in just about every sport. Built amazing facilities. We have record support. We have what it takes, so the frustration is losing back to back games in the 4th qtr. Not qualifying for playoffs (as it stands right now) for another year when the talent is there. That's the frustrating part and nobody denies that. But frustration does not mean we are not ready.

Our athletic FACILITIES may be ready for FBS but not the department. You make the case yourself that the on field product hasn't been to that level. What records have we set? Attendance for football? Have you not been to a MBB or WBB game in the last 5 years? If we actually had what it takes we would have gotten it done. Again, words need to meet up with actions. What solid facts do you have to back up your claim "we have what it takes"? And I'll give you facilities because they are pretty sweet. But what else?
And you SERIOUSLY think we have a chance at qualifying for the play offs? Which 2 teams will Coastal lose to?

[BJWilliams]

In order to learn how to win I think it starts with the coaching staff. Yes the players need to make the plays on the field, but it starts with the coaches putting the players in a position to win. I think I commented in another thread about the lack of aggressive playcalling when we had the big lead. Also, I think if we played closer coverage on defense, instead of depending on making a play to minimize YAC, plays like the TD by Hazel don't happen as often. I could go on but its late

[flamesfilmguy]

If it makes you guys feel any better, Brian Hudson's mom was in the stands at the Campbell vs. Mercer game today in a Liberty Hoodie. Made me smile a little on the inside. I wasn't very happy with Coach Minter's kids though. they got dirty in the second half. Expected a little more.

Anyway back to topic: SJ nailed it. I was one of those people who "bought into" the whole idea that we deserved where we were cause everything around us (facilities, Flame throwers, Big time transfers, etc.) told me we did. I am probably one of the few that doesn't think we will make the jump any time soon. I think a conference is going to have to get very desperate for university presidents to accept us. but again i'm probably one of the few thats skeptical about the whole jump. Maybe its because I enjoy FCS football a whole lot more than FBS. I'm all for the CAA/socon. but thats personal preference and I doubt that would happen either. we just aren't ready for a move.

[WinterIsComing]

It's been 2-3 years, so for the heck of it I'll post since TH Spangler called all us non-posters out.

I agree with SJ's original post. And while I don't care to elaborate on his points, I'll just say that I feel they are valid.

I wonder what would happen if we (fans, administration, alumni, students) lowered the pressure on the big three sports, without lowering the goal? Without knowing if/when we would be able to make "the jump", it puts our players and coaches in an awkward and pressure filled position. EVERY GAME has started to feel "MUST WIN", not for the sake of winning, but for the sake of moving.

If we had to be honest, most of the players on these rosters will never see the move to the FBS/better conference. So why put that kind of pressure on them? "WIN dang it so we can move up!" That does our seniors/teams absolutely no good. I mean sure, it would be nice to say "We were the seniors/teams that helped push LU into the FBS/better conference because the school had a ton of money, facilities and we had one good season where we were co-champs and missed the playoffs/tourney." But other than a good story for the grandkids and doting fans, it has no real value.

But, if we refocused the goal on just winning (not moving up), I feel like it would allow us to play looser, make mistakes, take some risks, try some new things, get better and then be able to say "We were the seniors/teams that won 2,3,4 conference championships and we made some good runs in the playoffs/tournament and that's what forced our move up."

I guess this could all be summed up in; Refocus on winning (not being entitled to winning) and building a winning mentality (we can beat anyone regardless of opponent or circumstances we may be facing) and the moving will take care of itself.

Building awesome facilities, having tons of money, and hiring good coaches is great and it definitely helps in the moving process. "We built this and invested this amount of money, now MOVE UP!...I mean win...I mean win so we can move up!" That doesn't work. You can't buy your way into greatness. You have to EARN it! It also takes some time, not indefinite, but some.

The way we have operated for the last few years just doesn't work because the mission of the school and winning have unfortunately taken a back seat to moving. Those two things actually BUILD the program and set us apart. Moving up (just like a lot of other schools) is seemingly the first goal, and because that's not happening, "Serving Jesus and being great kids" suddenly seems trivial because we were told what the first goal was; Was it the mission and winning? No. It was moving up. #FBS Ready.

Get the priorities back in order and I think we'll move up sooner rather than later.

[LCA&LU Mom]

There's that too.

If I'm not mistaken, there hasn't been a private university jump from FCS to FBS since the Division I split in 1978.

Have any other private schools attempted to move up?

[PAmedic]

You have always been on the list.

very likely true

ever since the Dean of Men and I had that "chat" back in the spring of '90

[BJWilliams]

I agree with WiC in changing the focus behind winning. What that may do is allow for what I commented, which is coaches putting players in position to win, and when the players are playing looser, they then can make the plays that the coaches put them in position to make so that they CAN win.

BYD is correct also. Liberty is a private institution with a very public persona because of who founded it and also our way of doing things and also the sorts of things we have found ourselves embroiled in over the years, especially recently since Dr Falwell's passing

[Chris Lang]

Jon brought up an excellent point, re: the money, in regards to the Sun Belt.

The Louisiana schools, which are battling crippling state budget cuts, are not interested in all at adding a school that can run laps around them financially, when they're already having enough trouble competing for league championships. From everything I've heard, Monroe and Lafayette are the biggest opponents to adding a school like Liberty with unlimited resources.

[LUnpretty11]

It's been 2-3 years, so for the heck of it I'll post since TH Spangler called all us non-posters out.

I agree with SJ's original post. And while I don't care to elaborate on his points, I'll just say that I feel they are valid.

I wonder what would happen if we (fans, administration, alumni, students) lowered the pressure on the big three sports, without lowering the goal? Without knowing if/when we would be able to make "the jump", it puts our players and coaches in an awkward and pressure filled position. EVERY GAME has started to feel "MUST WIN", not for the sake of winning, but for the sake of moving.

If we had to be honest, most of the players on these rosters will never see the move to the FBS/better conference. So why put that kind of pressure on them? "WIN dang it so we can move up!" That does our seniors/teams absolutely no good. I mean sure, it would be nice to say "We were the seniors/teams that helped push LU into the FBS/better conference because the school had a ton of money, facilities and we had one good season where we were co-champs and missed the playoffs/tourney." But other than a good story for the grandkids and doting fans, it has no real value.

But, if we refocused the goal on just winning (not moving up), I feel like it would allow us to play looser, make mistakes, take some risks, try some new things, get better and then be able to say "We were the seniors/teams that won 2,3,4 conference championships and we made some good runs in the playoffs/tournament and that's what forced our move up."

I guess this could all be summed up in; Refocus on winning (not being entitled to winning) and building a winning mentality (we can beat anyone regardless of opponent or circumstances we may be facing) and the moving will take care of itself.

Building awesome facilities, having tons of money, and hiring good coaches is great and it definitely helps in the moving process. "We built this and invested this amount of money, now MOVE UP!...I mean win...I mean win so we can move up!" That doesn't work. You can't buy your way into greatness. You have to EARN it! It also takes some time, not indefinite, but some.

The way we have operated for the last few years just doesn't work because the mission of the school and winning have unfortunately taken a back seat to moving. Those two things actually BUILD the program and set us apart. Moving up (just like a lot of other schools) is seemingly the first goal, and because that's not happening, "Serving Jesus and being great kids" suddenly seems trivial because we were told what the first goal was; Was it the mission and winning? No. It was moving up. #FBS Ready.

Get the priorities back in order and I think we'll move up sooner rather than later.

+1
Very well put, and very well said.

[flameshaw]

It's been 2-3 years, so for the heck of it I'll post since TH Spangler called all us non-posters out.

I agree with SJ's original post. And while I don't care to elaborate on his points, I'll just say that I feel they are valid.

I wonder what would happen if we (fans, administration, alumni, students) lowered the pressure on the big three sports, without lowering the goal? Without knowing if/when we would be able to make "the jump", it puts our players and coaches in an awkward and pressure filled position. EVERY GAME has started to feel "MUST WIN", not for the sake of winning, but for the sake of moving.

If we had to be honest, most of the players on these rosters will never see the move to the FBS/better conference. So why put that kind of pressure on them? "WIN dang it so we can move up!" That does our seniors/teams absolutely no good. I mean sure, it would be nice to say "We were the seniors/teams that helped push LU into the FBS/better conference because the school had a ton of money, facilities and we had one good season where we were co-champs and missed the playoffs/tourney." But other than a good story for the grandkids and doting fans, it has no real value.

But, if we refocused the goal on just winning (not moving up), I feel like it would allow us to play looser, make mistakes, take some risks, try some new things, get better and then be able to say "We were the seniors/teams that won 2,3,4 conference championships and we made some good runs in the playoffs/tournament and that's what forced our move up."

I guess this could all be summed up in; Refocus on winning (not being entitled to winning) and building a winning mentality (we can beat anyone regardless of opponent or circumstances we may be facing) and the moving will take care of itself.

Building awesome facilities, having tons of money, and hiring good coaches is great and it definitely helps in the moving process. "We built this and invested this amount of money, now MOVE UP!...I mean win...I mean win so we can move up!" That doesn't work. You can't buy your way into greatness. You have to EARN it! It also takes some time, not indefinite, but some.

The way we have operated for the last few years just doesn't work because the mission of the school and winning have unfortunately taken a back seat to moving. Those two things actually BUILD the program and set us apart. Moving up (just like a lot of other schools) is seemingly the first goal, and because that's not happening, "Serving Jesus and being great kids" suddenly seems trivial because we were told what the first goal was; Was it the mission and winning? No. It was moving up. #FBS Ready.

Get the priorities back in order and I think we'll move up sooner rather than later.

I do not see a "win so we can move up mentality/pressure" on any of our teams. First, conference affiliation isn't nearly as important to basketball and baseball. Football will change dramatically because of the number of scholarships it will allow. If the coaches in football are trying to win to move up, they should all be replaced along with several others. IMHO, there is zero chance that is happening. Most coaches, executives and professionals don't worry about things they can't control. Especially when there is no timetable for a move, or even a certainty that it will happen.

[flamesfan30]

i don't think the pressure is coming from the coaches as much at it is from students/ fans/ alumni/ athletic marketing. the whole marketing campaign to raise expectations and make us feel big time worked, and now we think were someone were not.

[forbidden]

This is the only thing I c that bothers me when I hear it. If your mission is to move up then do ALL the things necessary, and winning is oneofbthose things that will help that process. If the mission is serving god and Jesus then I don't care who you are or what you believe, the winning will take a little bit longer and in turn so will the process of moving up, because you won't be able to recruit on the same level as others. Idc what others say, it does and will play a big difference in some kids decision. Unfortunately, some kids will use LU as a last resort school hoping that they can possibly receive what they perceive as a better offer. For other kids they will kno what LU is about and again athletics is not as high a priority for them as ppl wanna make it for them. That's just the truth of the matter. If you don't or can't get enough of the better kids then it won't matter who is coaching them they will always be up against different odds, as they try and get the mot out of the kids they can get. And in turn that may mean never beating the CCU's or jmu's or the likes.

[Lburglifer]

From my view the LU income has bolstered facilities in all directions of campus. Most in the community do not think the actual athletic performance and draw has improved. FB is status quo or less. MBB has dropped. BB is possibly on the move. WBB leveled off. If football has a 9 million dollar budget then we should see a team that can bring more quality wins to the campus and community.