[logic]

It doesn't mean you are last. It just means that FH needed a field to play in the first place and lax was a joint project that benefited more students than just the lax players. I wouldn't lump FH or lax ahead of softball, their projects were simply a necessity to get them playing. Now satisfying Title IX requirements, that I would put ahead of everything, football included.

[adam42381]

Wait 20 years then see the return on investment when LU gradates turn out to be straight shooters with upper level management written all over them.

Peter Gibbons isn't walking through that door.

[logic]

Wait 20 years then see the return on investment when LU gradates turn out to be straight shooters with upper level management written all over them.

Peter Gibbons isn't walking through that door.

One can dream.

[ballcoach15]

As I was riding around campus yesterday looking at the athletic facilities, it was very noticable that softball HAS NOT received the attention in regards to facilities as other sports. LU's football, basketball, track, scoccer, baseball facilities are better than most in Big South, while softball is barely above that of a high school field. But I know of high schools that have better softball facility than LU.
As to the future, I think LU will get a new stadium, but question is when ?

[Brokedad]

I believe to the player that they came to LU on the promise that they were getting the current baseball stadium to be converted to Softball. That was part of the deal in the softball recruits mind during tour of AD’s office and campus visit

[Sly Fox]

And that is a fair complaint. But it should also be noted that when they were recruited the school had every intention of following that plan. Hopefully the new stadium built for the program will be even better than a three-decade-old converted baseball yard.

[Purple Haize]

And that is a fair complaint. But it should also be noted that when they were recruited the school had every intention of following that plan. Hopefully the new stadium built for the program will be even better than a three-decade-old converted baseball yard.

This is a hard one to gloss over. If you come expecting a place as nice as the old baseball field to be your new home and then get told its 'too valuable' to use for the Softball team then that's a huge slap in the face. Then to compound it by saying you will have your new place we just aren't sure where it will be, what it will look like or when you will have it is adding insult to injury. Now to say you MAY get one as nice as the one you were originally promised is stretching it.
This thing has been mishandled from the beginning and I feel sorry that we were not able to keep our promises to people who committed to us.

[alabama24]

And that is a fair complaint.

This is a hard one to gloss over.

+1

[BJWilliams]

Agreed.

[olldflame]

I would be interested in hearing how coach Wetmore truly feels about having a purpose built softball field at a different location as opposed to a converted Worthington. He has been around long enough to have a sense of the history of the place, and that history is NOT about softball and the championships they won and the players that played for him over 20 years.

That place is about Al Worthington, Sid Bream, Lee Guetterman, the Elliot brothers and others who laid the foundation for the likes of Pat Sipe, the Benhams, all those other Breams and too many others to mention, leading to this new talented crop which is making the move to the new facility. Putting myself in Wetmore´s shoes, I´m not so sure I wouldn´t prefer to have a place that isn´t always going to be better known for what happened there with another program in another sport.

[logic]

I would be interested in hearing how coach Wetmore truly feels about having a purpose built softball field at a different location as opposed to a converted Worthington. He has been around long enough to have a sense of the history of the place, and that history is NOT about softball and the championships they won and the players that played for him over 20 years.

That place is about Al Worthington, Sid Bream, Lee Guetterman, the Elliot brothers and others who laid the foundation for the likes of Pat Sipe, the Benhams, all those other Breams and too many others to mention, leading to this new talented crop which is making the move to the new facility. Putting myself in Wetmore´s shoes, I´m not so sure I wouldn´t prefer to have a place that isn´t always going to be better known for what happened there with another program in another sport.

A new facility would also be nicer than a converted Worthington. The siding on the "clubhouse" needs to go! Brick of bust!!

[Purple Haize]

So the broken promises and good intentions are really a plus because now this as yet un named, placed or timed stadium will be purpose built for softball. Please. 2 or 3 years from now, and probably more like 1 or 2, no one would associate the softball field with baseball had they done what they originally intended. That's just another lame excuse. I'm wouldn't dare speak for Coach Wetmore, nor should you. If I'm the coach and had been there as long I would be happy with ANY facility that's an upgrade. I would certainly be discontent with being promised a very nice and usable stadium only to be told its too valuable for my team.and Even though we've promised for years to have a quality place for you and never delivered and even though we promised you and your team this facility but aren't going to let you have it you can bet your bottom dollar that this time we honestly mean that we are serious when we say we are really going to look hard at maybe getting you a place that we promise will be better than what you have and will get it to you ASAP. Unless of course something comes up again.

[logic]

Get a grip, Haize. Liberty is here first and foremost as a university of higher edcucation, not a D1 sports factory (although thankfully athletics are a high priority). As such, the land right around DeMoss is better used for academic space, and yes, it is more important as academic space than for any, ANY sports program. There is plenty of space on East to build a softball complex, away from the heart of campus where Liberty isn't going to build academic buildings.

This is a win-win and a genuine "no brainer."

[Purple Haize]

Get a grip, Haize. Liberty is here first and foremost as a university of higher edcucation, not a D1 sports factory (although thankfully athletics are a high priority). As such, the land right around DeMoss is better used for academic space, and yes, it is more important as academic space than for any, ANY sports program. There is plenty of space on East to build a softball complex, away from the heart of campus where Liberty isn't going to build academic buildings.

This is a win-win and a genuine "no brainer."

I have a grip. What was promised once again was not delivered. Is that not an important part of the University's mission? Keeping your word? It's never been explained why that land suddenly became more valuable after the plans were in place. That's a pretty short window for things to change that dramatically. And if they are making that change why not have the alternative set and ready to go? Instead you are being asked to trust a system that has proven untrustworthy time and time again on this manner.
Had they said ' We aren't going to use the Worthington site because the needs of the University have changed due to XY and Z. However, we are going to build the new softball on Site X and it will be completed in time for the 2014 season.' Heck, they could have even released an artists renditioning of the new place. How hard is that? IF Softball were even a remote priority it would have been done.

[thepostman]

Softball???

[Purple Haize]

Softball???

Exactly. That's the mentality.

[thepostman]

thats my mentality too, but I do get where you are coming from.

[logic]

Ok, so promises were/may have been broken. In this specific situation I believe that is "OK" because of the nature of the situation. Using prime academic space for any athletic project, softball or otherwise, is simply a bad decision, especially when looking at this specific locale and it's proximity to the academic hub of campus. That is to say, this is one promise that was smart to break. You're hung up on the promise to softball and not looking at that space 10 or even 5 years down the road. This decision is best for the university. There is plenty of room elsewhere for a softball complex.

[Purple Haize]

So what is the criteria for promises that are 'ok' to break? You are hung up on the next 5 to 10 years not the integrity of promises. Again, read my posts. There was a much better way to handle this. The University chose not to take that route.
Still trying to figure what changed, in the what 6 or 8 months, to make this land too valuable for softball.

[thepostman]

I just wonder if liberty can ever do any wrong in logic's eyes?

I am shocked a thread about softball has lasted so long

[Purple Haize]

I just wonder if liberty can ever do any wrong in logic's eyes?

I am shocked a thread about softball has lasted so long

It's not just about softball. It's about VISION

Hey, it's a fun thread

[olldflame]

So much of this discussion is really hung up with semantics. Haize has typed ¨broken promises so many times¨it sounds like a broken record. (I guess now that would be a scratched CD?)

What constitutes a ¨promise¨here? Over the years as the university has grown, a lot of plans have been made and then changed. I doubt if there is a single academic or athletic program which has not been the ¨victim¨of changed plans on multiple occasions. My own family suffered severe financial hardship many years ago when my father left his job and relocated to Lynchburg based on plans which never came to fruition. He held less animosity toward the school than Haize appears to have over this softball thing.

Does it appear that softball has been dealt a worse hand than most in this regard? Possibly. I´m sure however, there are a lot of things that have happened regarding academic programs which we have never heard about and never will. Even if they have, what they are entitled to now is fair treatment, not penance for past sins. The idea that the only thing that is fair and will ¨make up¨for those past ¨broken promises¨is to locate them in a renovated Worthington, even though it is not what the school believes is the best use of the land, is ludicrus. I´m really not sure at all it would be the best thing for softball either.

[Purple Haize]

It all depends on what the definition of 'is' is argument? Clinton really was a genius. How about reneging on commitments? Reallocation of previously assigned assets? Willfully not fulfilling previously dedicated capital?
I don't have animosity. I'm just pointing out the track record of the University towards this particular sport. It is filled with expectations that have not been met. This thread goes on because people don't see that the failure to live up to agreed upon obligations is not just limited to this incident. I have even provided better ways to handle the situation. Apparently you haven't read the entirety of my posts. Of course to agree that this situation could have been handled better means admitting it was handled poorly in the first place, and that would never happen. Admit mistakes <gasp>

[olldflame]

I have always believed that apologies are owed to the people who have been wronged, and noone else. I agree that the schools track record in admitting wrongdoings has been less than stellar. I am not aware of some of the past things Haize mentions, but regarding this specific situation, I think it would be appropriate to admit to coach Wetmore that they were premature in making plans to renovate Worthington for softball and apoligize for the difficulty this has caused him and the softball program. I do not think there is ever a reason to apologize for doing what is best for the university as a whole.

I still have a problem with the use of terms like ¨promise¨and ¨committment¨when it comes to plans made by an institution. Things change, and the decision makers need to adjust plans based on new circumstances or new knowledge to try to do what is best for the university as a whole. I don´t think there is even a good argument to be made at this point that a softball field is the best use of the Worthington site.

[Purple Haize]

I still have a problem with the use of terms like ¨promise¨and ¨committment¨when it comes to plans made by an institution.

Any institution or just LU? Either way what's the point of keeping your word? I know that circumstances can change but that should be the exception, not the rule.
So basically, your position is to take anything LU says with a grain of salt? Welcome to The Dark Side my friend!