[VAGolf]

If we had a few, I could see what you are saying but we have zero VA recruits. If local kids aren't choosing to come here, then that's a coaches problem as far as I'm concerned. Since Layer has been here, we have signed zero kids from the state of VA...zero. So, either the coach can't get the talent (which is a problem) or he isn't trying to get the talent. If we are going after VA kids, then show me and I'll shut-up. I can't find where Layer is actually going after local talent. VCU, GMU and Richmond are good programs, partly because they have local talent. However, Radford and VMI aren't good programs yet they get local talent and they're better than we are. Texas has better programs than Virginia does and more D1 schools, so does FL.

[LUconn]

Here's 4 on the front page alone.

https://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=19924
https://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=19922
https://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=18487
https://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=17450

[VAGolf]

I don't think we're avoiding VA. We just go where the talent is. You're listing all of the in-state teams and how many VA kids they have as if they're something to strive towards when maybe 1 or 2 of them are. Radford and VMI are not better than us. They may be or may not be this season. Guess we'll see at the end. If anything I'd say we're all wallowing in the same pit of shame.

I'm not against recruiting in state, but VA is not exactly known as being a hot bed of college basketball talent. We're going to where the talent is and apparently not bringing it back. I don't see why it would be any better here. The only thing we can offer VA kids that we can't to out of staters is their family can come watch in a relatively short drive. And really if we're talking about Hampton Rds, which we're all thinking about, moms and dads probably arent going to be making that drive regularly.

Right but my point is that strategy isn't working for us. If something isn't working, try something different. Again, if we had one or two VA kids, different story. Yet, we have zero and Layer hasn't signed one since he's been here. I think that's a problem. Radford is 10-11 and 4-3 in conference, VMI is 9-10 and 4-3 in conference. We're 6-15 and 2-5 in conference. Right now, Radford and VMI are absolutely better than we are.

Hampton Roads definitely produces talent. But let's not forget Richmond, Southside, Roanoke, NOVA and NRV. There's bound to be several prospects in there. And if kids are going to NC and MD to play, why can't we go to NC and MD and recruit? We only have 3 combined players from there.

[VAGolf]

Well, those look like some great kids. How do I see if we're recruiting them though? Also, if we can't sign one of these kids, I think that should fall on Layer.

[Sly Fox]

If they are on the list, we have expressed interest.

We have a state with a total population of 8 million people with more major hoops programs within a couple hours in any direction that you can shake a stick at. Why invest all your resources in one tiny area where they know the Big South is well below par? We've had in-state verbal commits the past couple of years that haven't worked out for one reason or another. It is not likely we are discounting Virginia kids to stick only with Texas & Florida talent. How is looking for the best available talent regardless of geography a bad idea?

[VAGolf]

If they are on the list, we have expressed interest.

We have a state with a total population of 8 million people with more major hoops programs within a couple hours in any direction that you can shake a stick at. Why invest all your resources in one tiny area where they know the Big South is well below par? We've had in-state verbal commits the past couple of years that haven't worked out for one reason or another. It is not likely we are discounting Virginia kids to stick only with Texas & Florida talent. How is looking for the best available talent regardless of geography a bad idea?

I'm not saying it is a bad idea. I'm saying it isn't working. If we aren't avoiding Virginia, then great, we need to put a stronger emphasis on it though. Here's the thing about the "8 million people with more major hoops programs within a couple hours in any direction that you can shake a stick at", Radford, VMI, GMU, VCU, W&M, Richmond, and Norfolk State all have that same problem. Yet, they're all better than us. What we are doing is not working, not even close to working. There are only two teams in the state that aren't as bad as we are, ODU and Longwood. One of which is a newborn baby to D1. I don't care where the talent is coming from, I just want to win. However, when I see zero VA kids on our team versus at least a couple on all of the other teams in the state, I see a problem. Recruiting in Texas and Florida hasn't worked and it isn't working. It's been almost a decade since we've been to the dance.

[ballcoach15]

As a couple have posted, it doesn't matter where talent comes from, as long as it's good talent. Every year there are a lot of good D1 players in state of Virginia. LU needs to start recruiting and signing some of them. Truth be known, LU has not had a good team since Curry left. Seems like we beat UVA and almost beat Clemson that year. What have we done since ? The LU basketball program needs a total makeover. I hate to say it, but we are bad. Do not have the players to win at D1 level, even in the weak Big South.

[bballfan84]

It doesnt matter where the players come from. Va isnt some amazing hotbed of talent and if they are big talents, they are going somewhere else and a good chance its out of state. I dont understand the obsession with recruiting in VA...small sample size but Longwood has 6 players from VA and THEY ARE TERRIBLE...recruiting in state is mute unless you are talking about having an advantage in DC, Texas and other hotbeds for basketball.

[bballfan84]

How many true D1 players do we have on roster ? Most of the players we haev cannot put up 2 good games in a row. they have one decent game, then disappear for a couple of games. starters are not consistent, except maybe for Marshall.

Obviously you have never played a college sport. Most college athletes are the best players in high school on their own individual team. While our team may not look good at times and have a terrible record I can guarantee you that most D2 and NAIA kids could not hold a candle to the talent we have. Its not like we are getting completely obliterated in the Big South games.

[Purple Haize]

I can only speak for 2 sports. There does not appear to be an effort made to recruit local, let alone Virginia players. I know some think it does not matter where they come from, but they are full of poopy biscuits. The only other route is to go 'Foreign' like WBB did when they brought in Elena. But even then you had kids from the area, even West Virginia. If you can get a good local player or two you will be amazed at how many in the community will take notice. Granted there haven't been a ton in Lynchburg, but there have been enough to make you

[PAmedic]

ok I'll point out the elephant in the room that no one wants to address.

maybe the elite prospects just don't want to play for a "religious" school?

(REAL christian school I mean, not Duke, Wake, etc)

lets be honest, if you want the "action" that normally accompanies big time hoops it's easier to find elsewhere.

we do clean up on the homeschooled white kids tho

[Purple Haize]

ok I'll point out the elephant in the room that no one wants to address.

maybe the elite prospects just don't want to play for a "religious" school?

(REAL christian school I mean, not Duke, Wake, etc)

lets be honest, if you want the "action" that normally accompanies big time hoops it's easier to find elsewhere.

we do clean up on the homeschooled white kids tho

Ouch!
I dunno, we have had several athletes who don't fit The Liberty Way. I just think we have coaching staffs who look down their noses at talent in the Lynchburg/Roanoke area.

[PAmedic]

I paint with a broad brush baby

but I think it's true (my point, I mean: I don't know @ the nose-looking deal)

MBB and FB to be honest

[Purple Haize]

I paint with a broad brush baby

but I think it's true (my point, I mean: I don't know @ the nose-looking deal)

MBB and FB to be honest

Yeah. All of our football players have been strict adherents to the Liberty Way. The published and secret ones !

[JK37]

I was thinking it the whole time, too, Medic. Specific to MBB, let me see if I can pull the two dies together with a question: when was the last time Liberty had a men's basketball staff emphasizing recruiting young men who adhered to the mission of the school as much or more as the current staff does? Hankinson, maybe?? Meyer? If the question is more than this staff, the answer could be never.

And that would severely narrow local recruiting. I agree Liberty basketball is not a national brand. But the university is very much a national brand. The stigma of the university has largely dissipated onthe national level, but that takes much more ime locally. I have no problem with a recruiting strategy that is both locally aware and national in scope.

[olldflame]

I was thinking it the whole time, too, Medic. Specific to MBB, let me see if I can pull the two dies together with a question: when was the last time Liberty had a men's basketball staff emphasizing recruiting young men who adhered to the mission of the school as much or more as the current staff does? Hankinson, maybe?? Meyer? If the question is more than this staff, the answer could be never.

And that would severely narrow local recruiting. I agree Liberty basketball is not a national brand. But the university is very much a national brand. The stigma of the university has largely dissipated onthe national level, but that takes much more ime locally. I have no problem with a recruiting strategy that is both locally aware and national in scope.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man, am I glad to see someone else ¨gets it¨!

I reject the idea that we are ignoring local talent. Layer and staff have made a concious decision to narrow recruiting to players who actually want to attend a school like Liberty. This has limited local options, and thus far we haven´t had much success with those we have gone after, but I do not believe it is for lack of effort. We need to do better, because I agree that having some local kids on the squad sparks interest in the community. As far as the product on the floor is concerned, it makes absolotely no difference if they are from Poland or Pulaski.

Regardless of who our coach is going forward, I hope and pray we do not go back to the days when we lie to (or at least hide the truth from) recruits to try to make them believe we are something we are not.

[ballah09]

really getting players that want to come here? i still see alot of players leaving after a year or two.

Gordon, Philips, Perez, Konan, Woods, etc...

fact is layer only goes after Jucos, small private home schooled kids and they don't mix well.

[LUconn]

He went after jucos last year because he needs to win now. I don't think that is a normal MO for him. Also, transferring isn't just about the school. For some of those guys it was just about how much PT they were going to be looking at.

[bballfan84]

really getting players that want to come here? i still see alot of players leaving after a year or two.

Gordon, Philips, Perez, Konan, Woods, etc...

fact is layer only goes after Jucos, small private home schooled kids and they don't mix well.

he had one year which was last year when he got a bunch of Jucos...do your homework before you post

[olldflame]

really getting players that want to come here? i still see alot of players leaving after a year or two.

Gordon, Philips, Perez, Konan, Woods, etc...

fact is layer only goes after Jucos, small private home schooled kids and they don't mix well.

Out of that group, only Perez left because he didn´t like Liberty, and he was not a Layer recruit. He was recruited by Brad Soucie and signed by McKay in Nov. of 08 (early signing period.) Phillips left because of PT and Gordon and Konan wanted to play different positions. Woods was a late signee we took a chance on when another recruit didn´t qualify. He did not have his schollie renewed after one year because he couldn´t play.

[VAGolf]

I can't really make a long, well written post at the moment, so I'll be short and direct.

Some of you are missing the point that I'm making. I'm not saying, more talent from VA equates to more wins. However, I think we at least need SOME talent from VA. Local talent will generate more butts in seats. So, will wins. Right now, we have very few people attending games and we're winning very few games. Find some local talent to generate some community interest. Don't ever let Radford and VMI have better recruiting years than us. Once every four years, our class should be better than two schools out of GMU, VCU, Richmond, UVA, VTech, W&M. Oh, and don't get JUCO players. Some of the kids are transferring because they want/need to go back home. If those were local kids, they would already be home. Also, you can make Liberty be more desirable by recruiting local talent.

One person made the comment that many kids do not want to come to a religious school. So, do we resort to excuses as to why we aren't competitive? There will always be a million reasons why you aren't successful but all of those "reasons" are excuses. If we aren't getting talent because kids don't want to play for a Christian school, that's a coaching problem. Good coaches will get good talent, period. We don't have to find "thugs" either, we can find quality players who are on a mission for God. There are many many more Jesse's in the country, we just need to find them and then convince them to come here. If Layer can't do it, find someone who can.

It's so easy to get to the dance. Seriously, you can get there with about ten wins. When you look at our resources, our budget and our mission, we should win the BigSouth once every 5 years at LEAST. Next year it will have been a decade since we've been, 10 years. On top of that, the team isn't getting better, it's getting worse. We played a great game last night but don't let that blind you from how we've performed the rest of the season. Keep Layer, let go of Layer, that's not the point of this. My point is that we need to completely change how we recruit, play...etc. We should have higher expectations for this team, much higher. It should be a crime to not make the tourney every 5 years. We should be offended if we aren't one of the best teams in the state every now and then. Our goal should be to compete at the VCU and Richmond level rather than the Radford, Longwood level. Look at the expectations of our Women's team. We're consistently one of the best teams in the state. When we make the tournament, it's no surprise when we aren't a 16 seed. We've made the Sweet Sixteen before. It's just a complete reversal. Carey does a fantastic job in getting top talent that isn't local but he almost always has at least a few players that are. It generates local interest and keeps other teams in the state in check. He doesn't rely on regional talent to win but he finds local talent. I love it. Our guys team on the other hand, relies on JUCO's and international players to win. Makes no sense. I don't care where we base our recruiting efforts, I just wish we could steal some kids from VCU and Richmond. Yet, we're worse than Radford and VMI.

We don't have to get players in VA. It can be from NC, WV, MD, DC...etc. There is plenty of talent in all of those areas. A lot of kids are going to go to Duke, Maryland, insert big name schools here. However, a lot of those kids are going to W&M, JMU, Radford or VMI. We need to be getting those kids.

[LUconn]

It's so easy to get to the dance.

This is wrong wrong wrong. It is hard for even the best team in the conference to be the winner of a single elimination tournament. Pretty much everything you posted after that can be summed up with a post I made earlier this very thread:

Naming names like VCU, GMU, Butler. There are only a few teams out of hundreds that have accomplished what they have. Think about how we would give our firstborn to have the decade that Winthrop had. And they won, one tournament game. Almost won 2. They were never a household name and at this point are no better off than the rest of us. In some cases, these final 4 runs were lightning in a bottle. I'm not saying these programs were awful and got hot one year. In fact they all seem to have been consistently decent to good. I mean heck, VCU and GMU both were not even supposed to be in the tournament in their respective FF runs.

Basically what I'm getting at is that even if you have your pick of sure fire great coaches, and we pour and pour money in, it STILL has to be the perfect storm to get your program into that situation.

Raising your personal standards or expectations doesn't change anything. You have to have the right coach who has the right staff, and you have to give them a ton of time and consistency. And by the time you find out if that is the wrong coach or the wrong staff, you've done serious harm to your program and you've got an even bigger hole to climb out of. We know that first hand, only the time line was expedited.

[olldflame]

If that was short and direct VAGolf, please................... PLEASE spare us long and convoluted!

Bottom line. The fact that we don´t have local kids on our current roster 1. does not mean we have not tried to recruit them and 2. has nothing to do with how good or bad we are. As far as us not being as good as VMI or Radford, let´s wait and see how the season plays out.

[Purple Haize]

If that was short and direct VAGolf, please................... PLEASE spare us long and convoluted!

Bottom line. The fact that we don´t have local kids on our current roster 1. does not mean we have not tried to recruit them and 2. has nothing to do with how good or bad we are. As far as us not being as good as VMI or Radford, let´s wait and see how the season plays out.

I hear ya! But his first paragraph and last couple of sentences were spot on. We are trying to build a program and increase community involvement. As a program we should have at least one kid from the greater Lynchburg metro area. Period. People will remember they played, probably saw them once once or twice and know the name. The kid may or may not be a difference maker but they won't be a drill buster and their value won't be measured in PT

[BJWilliams]

As has already been said, VA isnt a hotbed of significant high school basketball talent (football is another story). Having grown up in VA my entire life, Ive seen ebbs and flows as far as talent goes, especially where Im from (Hampton Roads/Tidewater whatever you want to call it). Im sure that can be said in other areas as well but bottom line is that you dont see college coaches beating the doors down to get kids from here. Would it be nice if we got one or two kids from here? certainly, but you arent going to make or break a roster based on that. If there was a choice between an average player from VA or an above average to star player from say, Texas, Id want the kid from Texas.