[prototype]

OK - so we have a lot of problems with our basketball team right now and it doesn't look like it will change anytime soon. I don't see any white horses heading our way with a 6'10" 4 star prospect riding in.

Layer's not the issue!! JB is not the issue!! Our team being ridiculously white isn't the issue!! THE MAIN ISSUE OF WHY OUR PROGRAM IS SUCKING RIGHT NOW - -

The Student Body!

If we can get the students to show up for games - it will make the atmosphere better for the paying fans, make the atmosphere better for our players and POTENTIAL recruits. How can Layer attract the best talent and convince them to come play at Liberty, when they come to visit and we have 1,000 people there? Our students need to be a lot more loyal to their school and support Basketball, much like they support Football. Things have changed since I graduated, but back in the days - everyone went to the games and we only had like 2,000 students. Think how crazy the atmosphere would be if 50% of our students showed up now?

If the culture would change - we would have a completely different program!! How do we get them there? Need to have Jerry Jr. publicly layout the challenge and the vision for how they can help. Need to spend $2,000 per game and give away stuff every game (ipods, ipads, xbox, book coupons, etc...). Maybe a full year attendance goal for the students for a big prize? If we average 5,000 students - a day off, 7,500 students - 2 days off... Free concert by a big time group? I'm sure Toby Mac would be willing to jump on board of presented the idea.

Why a different thread? Because all the others are about what admin is doing wrong and it's time we look ourselves in the mirror and see what the true reason is - The support for our team SUCKS!!! We are a bunch of bandwagon fans - me included!!

Bring your ideas on how we get the flame back to Furnace!!!

[Purple Haize]

I luv all 5'2" of you but you sort of went full circle. You make the case that students aren't showing up because the Administration isn't doing enough to entice them to show up. Then chastise people for blaming the Administration.
Your ideas are obviously great. Winning would be a help.
Being exciting to watch would help.
Having the players and coaches involved with the student body would help.
IMO, there seems to be a disconnect between some of our athletic teams and the student body as a whole. Does this apply to MBB? I don't know but it's something to look at

[jmdickens]

Winning cures all ills

[BJWilliams]

It does but I think that proto's point is that even when we were winning (like when we got on the run we did in the latter part of last season), we still werent drawing a lot of people to support the team. Im sure he isnt saying that we need 8,000+ people to come out for an 0-8 basketball team but getting more butts in the seats would help the atmosphere and have a trickle down effect to things like recruiting and team play (because they feed off the energy the crowd gives)

[prototype]

I luv all 5'2" of you but you sort of went full circle. You make the case that students aren't showing up because the Administration isn't doing enough to entice them to show up. Then chastise people for blaming the Administration.
Your ideas are obviously great. Winning would be a help.
Being exciting to watch would help.
Having the players and coaches involved with the student body would help.
IMO, there seems to be a disconnect between some of our athletic teams and the student body as a whole. Does this apply to MBB? I don't know but it's something to look at

I know it does seem like that, as I read it back, BUT it does fall back on to admin to get those students who just don't care about sports and I'm not talking about admin at a basketball level - but more of admin support from Jerry's level to provide the budget to do giveaways, game announcement promotions, and such. (How cool would it be to have a 1,000 T-Shirts handed out the day before that would allow those students to wear a flames shirt that had nothing more than "Come tonight and support YOUR Flames against CCU" They get the shirt - they have to wear the shirt all day. That takes money to do, but would make those home game days more top of mind.)

Students aren't showing up and it is because they lack loyalty and have a lack of school pride!! Come on - I went to Liberty and I know things haven't changed that much - I did pretty well and never missed a Football or Basketball game. If the 2 hours you need is going to kill your grades - then you probably need to work on your study skills. If it takes admin pleading to the students to know how important basketball and football are to the future growth of Liberty - then so be it.

I don't care about the schedule or winning - that should matter to the paying fans, but not to the students who has fellow students fighting every day to represent our school. UVA has sucked for years and they still get fans to show up... Many schools have gone through what we are going through and never sold their teams down the river. Students wouldn't show up if we were 8-0 right now, most the students don't even know what our record is right now... Only the ones who already go.

[prototype]

And I'm 5'2 and a 1/4 Haize....

[prototype]

Winning cures all ills

Disagree. We have won before and it hasn't helped. The type of winning you are referring to is the run through the tournament where we host the championship!! That's not happening until we get better players and some mojo - that starts ans ends with support.

[Purple Haize]

And I'm 5'2 and a 1/4 Haize....

I wasn't counting your platform shoes!

Thanks for clarification on exactly which Administration you were discussing. Now that Athletic Marketing is lumped in with University Marketing it does take it to a higher level of responsibility. So I wasn't banging on you for that. Although apparently you need a proofreader for your own posts!

The rest of my post was directed at what the team and coaches of ANY of our programs can do. You can't just snap your fingers and PRESTO out people come. It takes investment and time. Do our teams do that? At least at a campus level let alone at a community level.

[LUconn]

We've had these discussions in the past. There are just a lot of people at LU that don't care about attending sports. I'm amazed at what has become of football games but that's like 5 Saturday afternoons a year. Winning would bring out more people but I just don't think you're going to get a whole lot of people to come out on seemingly random nights a few times per week for a team that appears to be going nowhere. Obviously for most of us here, basketball games was one of our priorities when we were in school, but for a lot of folks it's just not. They'd rather be studying for some cake-walk 101 class or playing their guitar on some curb near a busy walk way.

[prototype]

And I'm 5'2 and a 1/4 Haize....

I wasn't counting your platform shoes!

Thanks for clarification on exactly which Administration you were discussing. Now that Athletic Marketing is lumped in with University Marketing it does take it to a higher level of responsibility. So I wasn't banging on you for that. Although apparently you need a proofreader for your own posts!

The rest of my post was directed at what the team and coaches of ANY of our programs can do. You can't just snap your fingers and PRESTO out people come. It takes investment and time. Do our teams do that? At least at a campus level let alone at a community level.

Yeah - Proof reading FF post is really needed. I don't have time to even post - I just write what I'm thinking and with little regards to the English language. I just hope my points come across.

[Chippy]

We played 6th ranked Stony Brook in football for a possible playoff birth. The student side was the worst it was all season and the total attendance was our worst all season. There wasn't 3K students at the game and yet we have 12K on campus. I started following LU sports in 2004 and remember the Vines rocking then - it was hard to get a seat and the campus population was at least half what it is now. The wife and I have season tickets to all the major sports and attend regardless of the competition or record just like we did when we were undergrads. This is probably beating a dead horse since I'm sure I've mentioned this in a post or two

[prototype]

We played 6th ranked Stony Brook in football for a possible playoff birth. The student side was the worst it was all season and the total attendance was our worst all season. There wasn't 3K students at the game and yet we have 12K on campus. I started following LU sports in 2004 and remember the Vines rocking then - it was hard to get a seat and the campus population was at least half what it is now. The wife and I have season tickets to all the major sports and attend regardless of the competition or record just like we did when we were undergrads. This is probably beating a dead horse since I'm sure I've mentioned this in a post or two

[ballah09]

can't compare football and basketball. for one, football is the most popular sport in america. also it falls on the saturday and involves alot of activities, ala tailgating. lastly Liberty is good and has been ranked. You saw the student side get bad when Liberty was losing.

basketball team is bad plus liberty never brings in good teams. no one wants to watch them play d2 cupcakes (see what happened when clemson came to town?). when liberty was good and had a star player the vines was rocking. in 2008, while it wasn't packed it was bringing in a quite a few people and basketball was gaining momentum all until Curry left.

just imo.

[flameslinger]

We played 6th ranked Stony Brook in football for a possible playoff birth. The student side was the worst it was all season and the total attendance was our worst all season. There wasn't 3K students at the game and yet we have 12K on campus.

Consider the attendance in 2010 when we played Stony the last game of the season, for a share of the conference title, with a potential playoff spot on the line. It was 4000 less that this season's game, and the flames were nationally ranked and ended 8-3. I don't remember what the student side looked like for that game, so make of this what you will. I do think it helps to reinforce the idea that a a continued emphasis in increasing the level of student support is needed. Night games in football have better turnout. I would think that pushing some student turnout and promos for weekend evening basketball games is a good place to start.

[bballfan84]

can't compare football and basketball. for one, football is the most popular sport in america. also it falls on the saturday and involves alot of activities, ala tailgating. lastly Liberty is good and has been ranked. You saw the student side get bad when Liberty was losing.

basketball team is bad plus liberty never brings in good teams. no one wants to watch them play d2 cupcakes (see what happened when clemson came to town?). when liberty was good and had a star player the vines was rocking. in 2008, while it wasn't packed it was bringing in a quite a few people and basketball was gaining momentum all until Curry left.

just imo.

what good football teams do we bring in for home games that the average fan would know about..nobody..thats a mute point in my opinion. bottom line the team needs to perform better. when i played in 03-05 the vines was rocking..we were also pretty good!!! By mentioning those years please do not go on an RD rant!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will say I think the basketball program would be better served with a gym that seats 3-4k. If we ever have home court in the playoffs and think we need more room then move the big games to the vines but when you have 2k in a gym that seats 8k+ it looks ridiculous and when we have 176 showup it looks pathetic... I will say if the students came out the players would prob perform a little better at least. Home court goes a long way when you actually have a fan base

[Bigsouthking]

There are only 3 schools in America that doesn't have attendance problems for Hoops -- Duke, Kentucky, Kansas

everywhere else rides the waves of winning!!

[prototype]

There are only 3 schools in America that doesn't have attendance problems for Hoops -- Duke, Kentucky, Kansas

everywhere else rides the waves of winning!!

That's not true. The top 100 programs, as far as attendance goes, average more than 5,500 per game and they aren't all winning schools like Duke. BYU is 6th with an average of 18,000+ per game, Marquette 11th, New Mexico 16th, Wichita St 40th averaging over 10K+, Virginia 43rd with over 10K+, DUKE - 48th, Bradley 56th. Here are some ones that I would say we compare to or should -
Old Dominion, 66th, averages 7,700
VCU, 80th, averages 6,600
Richmond, 89th, 5,900
George Mason, 91, 5,800

We need to be better!! Our upper administration is willing to spend whatever it takes to be successful and now is the time for the students to take some ownership and help. EVERY game is on TV!! We can't thank Jerry, Jr by filling the seats behind the camera and showcasing why Liberty is the World's best Christian University!!!

[ProudLUAlum]

I think the major problem with the basketball team is that the recruiting is horrible. We either get guys who dont support the Liberty Way or we get choir boys who cant play. There is a TON of talent out there that we are missing. There are guys playing at small Christian Colleges all over the country that are better than most of our players. Also, there are Christian kids playing NAIA basketball that would love to play at LU. Some of these guys get limited or NO scholly $ at their current school.

This team is really ...really bad...... We would get drilled by a number of NAIA and D2 teams.ProudLUAlum
Spark

Posts: 9
Joined: November 30th, 2012, 6:50 pm

[Bigsouthking]

Portypo --

When the Flames play VMI/Longwood/Radford the attendance will be up... therefore it will balance out the early season avg...

Understand athletics attendance my man --- of course No One will come watch a Georgia State game when the team is 0-7... ODU is 1-6 there attendance will be down guarntee

VCU/Wichita/BYU has season ticket holders and all programs have post season success...

From what I see LU has NO season ticket holders and the students actually make up the majority of crowd...

ride the waves of winning and capitalize on it my friend thats the key!!

[LUconn]

What you are saying is not true. You're just saying things that sound bad. What kids are we overlooking that would see any minutes? If any exist there are 100 other teams that missed them too. D2 teams beat D1 teams every year so it's possible but we would not get "drilled" by any of them. You have nothing to back any of that up with.

[Wilberforce91]

Proto I think you are absolutely right. I was talking about this very topic with my friend's Dad at lunch yesterday after church. Yes, winning and having a good on-court product would do some, but I don't know how much. Some giveaways or something might draw some folks in; but something needs to be done.

The Clemson game was packed because students were allowed to miss class if they went to the game. The 2010 Stony Brook football game was poorly attended because it was the beginning of Thanksgiving Break and most of the students left that Friday.

The sorry fact is that most of the student body are fair-weather fans and there is zero loyalty there. At the Morgan State game Thursday, the front row behind the Liberty bench was the only group standing, and even on that row, one kid was wearing a Temple hoodie and another was wearing a Maryland hat!

We only need about a third of the people who attend the football games to show up for some basketball games for the Vines to be poppin!

Oh and while we're discussing it, scrap the "Spirit Sprint" towards the end of the 2nd half. It's just sad.

[adam42381]

There are only 3 schools in America that doesn't have attendance problems for Hoops -- Duke, Kentucky, Kansas

everywhere else rides the waves of winning!!

In the past 26 years, UNC has been in the top 5 in attendance all but 1 year and that year they were still in the top 10. I'd say averaging over 20,000 fans per game for over 25 consecutive years is pretty solid. I'd also add Syracuse, Louisville and BYU to the list of teams that sell a lot of tickets. It's hard to compare a school like Duke who sells out Cameron's 9,300 seats to a school like Syracuse that's trying to sell 33,000 tickets at the Carrier Dome.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketb ... Ytop25.pdf

[jbock13]

If you win, they will come. If you don't, they won't. Is it worth it for me to drive 40 miles to see us lose to a D1 team or beat up on an NAIA team? Of course not. Therefore I'll stay at home.

[Schfourteenteen]

We really just need to add 3,000 more to the attendance numbers. Problem solved.

[jcrew4]

Its the blue couch court side fan of the game that people want! Soda and popcorn!!

But really, get some players and they will come. People want to see a dunk a thon not a PG turnover rally. With a team full of PG's it was as painfull to watch on ESPN as it probably was in person.