[LUconn]

You can't legislate morality.

The Christian Left is all about Gods grace and love but always forget about his justice and hatred of sin.

The Christian Right is all about his justice and hatred of sin but always forget about his grace and love.

The only way we change the world is if we come together and truly loving people but not being afraid to speak about God's justice and hatred of sin in a loving manner. Legislating religion will never get us anywhere other than arguments and misplaced hatred.

Murder, stealing, abuse, etc. pretty sure we legislate morality all the time. That's the basis of civilized society.

[ALUmnus]

You can't legislate morality.

The Christian Left is all about Gods grace and love but always forget about his justice and hatred of sin.

The Christian Right is all about his justice and hatred of sin but always forget about his grace and love.

The only way we change the world is if we come together and truly loving people but not being afraid to speak about God's justice and hatred of sin in a loving manner. Legislating religion will never get us anywhere other than arguments and misplaced hatred.

The Christian left grossly misunderstands God's grace, and the only reason they believe in God's love is because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside. And your characterization of the Christian right is a stereotype without much merit. It's basically the Glee definition of Christians, and you believe it.

[Purple Haize]

You can't legislate morality.

The Christian Left is all about Gods grace and love but always forget about his justice and hatred of sin.

The Christian Right is all about his justice and hatred of sin but always forget about his grace and love.

The only way we change the world is if we come together and truly loving people but not being afraid to speak about God's justice and hatred of sin in a loving manner. Legislating religion will never get us anywhere other than arguments and misplaced hatred.

The Christian left grossly misunderstands God's grace, and the only reason they believe in God's love is because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside. And your characterization of the Christian right is a stereotype without much merit. It's basically the Glee definition of Christians, and you believe it.

Says the guy who just stereotyped the Christian Left.....

[ATrain]

[ALUmnus]

You can't legislate morality.

The Christian Left is all about Gods grace and love but always forget about his justice and hatred of sin.

The Christian Right is all about his justice and hatred of sin but always forget about his grace and love.

The only way we change the world is if we come together and truly loving people but not being afraid to speak about God's justice and hatred of sin in a loving manner. Legislating religion will never get us anywhere other than arguments and misplaced hatred.

The Christian left grossly misunderstands God's grace, and the only reason they believe in God's love is because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside. And your characterization of the Christian right is a stereotype without much merit. It's basically the Glee definition of Christians, and you believe it.

Says the guy who just stereotyped the Christian Left.....

Yes, but my stereotype has merit. Where is Sly, I shouldn't have to clarify myself?

[Sly Fox]

Bada bing!

And I agree with LUconn ... yes, most all laws are written to legislate morality. But I get the tone with which SJ is directing the conversation.

[SuperJon]

Yeah. I chose a bad word when I said morality. You get what I'm saying though.

[Let It Be]

The Christian Left believes in Gods love and Grace. When society provides for the poor, sick and hungry society is living closer to Gods ideal then the Christian Rights 'God helps those who help themselves' mentality. As for Abortion, while the act itself is abominable, God still loves the mother and the unborn is in the Arms of Jesus. If God will leave His heart open shouldn't we? Why should we as society judge topics such as gay marriage, welfare, abortion, divorce etc when the Bible says the God is the ultimate judge, not us.

Sounds like someone gave up. You may think that "judgement" or opinion is not fair and you are correct; it is not fair to future generations who saw their forefathers give, little by little, their ground until they were left with the scrapheaps of the table.

[adam42381]

The Christian Left believes in Gods love and Grace. When society provides for the poor, sick and hungry society is living closer to Gods ideal then the Christian Rights 'God helps those who help themselves' mentality. As for Abortion, while the act itself is abominable, God still loves the mother and the unborn is in the Arms of Jesus. If God will leave His heart open shouldn't we? Why should we as society judge topics such as gay marriage, welfare, abortion, divorce etc when the Bible says the God is the ultimate judge, not us.

Sounds like someone gave up. You may think that "judgement" or opinion is not fair and you are correct; it is not fair to future generations who saw their forefathers give, little by little, their ground until they were left with the scrapheaps of the table.

Are you speaking words of wisdom?

[El Scorcho]

Murder, stealing, abuse, etc. pretty sure we legislate morality all the time. That's the basis of civilized society.

Actually, that's us legislating liberty, not morality. Murder, theft, abuse, etc. are all violations of the liberty of another individual. It's the difference between legislating something like lying versus something like assault. That's not to say we haven't tried to legislate morality in the United States. We've done it a lot, but it's not constitutional and it usually just screws things up.

That doesn't solve the conflict about abortion, but it draws a pretty clear line for most other things.

[LUconn]

Actually, that's us legislating liberty, not morality. Murder, theft, abuse, etc. are all violations of the liberty of another individual. It's the difference between legislating something like lying versus something like assault.

I don't think that's as cut and dry as you think it is. All of those examples are protecting liberties of another, true, but they are also limiting liberties. What makes the liberty of the victim to keep his possession supersede the liberty of the thief to steal it? Morality. Right and wrong.

[Purple Haize]

The Christian Left believes in Gods love and Grace. When society provides for the poor, sick and hungry society is living closer to Gods ideal then the Christian Rights 'God helps those who help themselves' mentality. As for Abortion, while the act itself is abominable, God still loves the mother and the unborn is in the Arms of Jesus. If God will leave His heart open shouldn't we? Why should we as society judge topics such as gay marriage, welfare, abortion, divorce etc when the Bible says the God is the ultimate judge, not us.

Sounds like someone gave up. You may think that "judgement" or opinion is not fair and you are correct; it is not fair to future generations who saw their forefathers give, little by little, their ground until they were left with the scrapheaps of the table.

Are you speaking words of wisdom?

Only if they were whispered by Mother Mary in times of trouble!

ALumnus- how does your stereotype have merit? I was unaware 'warm and fuzzy' was a specific condition. And why do you have to look to Sly to make an argument that you have passion about?

Let It Be - you post makes about as much sense as I Am The Walrus

[adam42381]

Goo goo g'joob.

[logic]

Let us keep it simple.

1. Abortion is murder
2. Democrats support murder (abortion)
3. I could therefore never support Democrats, regardless of how much "good" is in the party with regards to feeding the poor, homeless, etc. Abortion kills it for me....no pun intended.


A liberal could argue that senseless, unjustified wars are murder as well, and that is where I would agree with Dems and where I would disagree with the hard-line Republican stance. Republicans tend to be more pro-war, and A LOT of innocent people die in wars, all for the name of "national security" and what have you.

The bottom line is that both parties stink, the Republicans just stink a bit less. Let us not forget it was Bush, a local Liberty favorite, who lowered taxes and borrowed trillions to start two wars. Far from a true conservative he was. And he literally started the wars. Read into that what you will....

[Purple Haize]

Let us keep it simple.

1. Abortion is murder
2. Democrats support murder (abortion)
3. I could therefore never support Democrats, regardless of how much "good" is in the party with regards to feeding the poor, homeless, etc. Abortion kills it for me....no pun intended.


A liberal could argue that senseless, unjustified wars are murder as well, and that is where I would agree with Dems and where I would disagree with the hard-line Republican stance. Republicans tend to be more pro-war, and A LOT of innocent people die in wars, all for the name of "national security" and what have you.

The bottom line is that both parties stink, the Republicans just stink a bit less. Let us not forget it was Bush, a local Liberty favorite, who lowered taxes and borrowed trillions to start two wars. Far from a true conservative he was. And he literally started the wars. Read into that what you will....

I was unaware that abortion was the unpardonable sin. Can I get a scripture reference on that? I must have skipped that day in my Systematic Theology class

[jmdickens]

Actually, that's us legislating liberty, not morality. Murder, theft, abuse, etc. are all violations of the liberty of another individual. It's the difference between legislating something like lying versus something like assault.

I don't think that's as cut and dry as you think it is. All of those examples are protecting liberties of another, true, but they are also limiting liberties. What makes the liberty of the victim to keep his possession supersede the liberty of the thief to steal it? Morality. Right and wrong.

Because taking someone's possession that is earned through the victims time(life) is similar to taking someone's life. That simple.

If we are trying to make US law on what we perceive as Biblical Law, we have eliminated the very thing that makes us different. That is our freedom. You're correct, it wouldn't oppress people who practiced Biblical principles but those who don't believe would be oppressed. It is the essential element established as separation of church and state.

What us Christians should be doing is practicing what we preach by spreading the gospel through our works and our lives. We want people to emulate Christ by what God does through us. Using the government as a tool to force Godly principles would limit the effectiveness and would be conceding that Christ's love alone is not enough. Laziness on purported children of God.

[jbock13]

You can't legislate morality.

The Christian Left is all about Gods grace and love but always forget about his justice and hatred of sin.

The Christian Right is all about his justice and hatred of sin but always forget about his grace and love.

The only way we change the world is if we come together and truly loving people but not being afraid to speak about God's justice and hatred of sin in a loving manner. Legislating religion will never get us anywhere other than arguments and misplaced hatred.

This. +1

[Hold My Own]

That outta make you feel better SJ

[logic]

Let us keep it simple.

1. Abortion is murder
2. Democrats support murder (abortion)
3. I could therefore never support Democrats, regardless of how much "good" is in the party with regards to feeding the poor, homeless, etc. Abortion kills it for me....no pun intended.


A liberal could argue that senseless, unjustified wars are murder as well, and that is where I would agree with Dems and where I would disagree with the hard-line Republican stance. Republicans tend to be more pro-war, and A LOT of innocent people die in wars, all for the name of "national security" and what have you.

The bottom line is that both parties stink, the Republicans just stink a bit less. Let us not forget it was Bush, a local Liberty favorite, who lowered taxes and borrowed trillions to start two wars. Far from a true conservative he was. And he literally started the wars. Read into that what you will....

I was unaware that abortion was the unpardonable sin. Can I get a scripture reference on that? I must have skipped that day in my Systematic Theology class

So you're justifying abortion by saying it is a pardonable sin? Is that what you're getting at? This has nothing to do with forgiveness, and everything to do with the supporting of a political party that at it's very core supports the murder of millions.

Again, how can a Christian vote for, or financially support a political party that -

1. Allows for no exceptions on when an abortion can be performed, or the manner in which said abortion is performed?

Not that any length of time or way is better than another, but tell me Haize, have you ever seen a partial birth abortion and if so, how did it make you feel?

Let me spell it out in plain english for everyone once again -

1. Democrats support 8 month pregnancies being aborted, including by partial birth abortion.

That is their position, and there is no denying this. If you're a "Christian" and you're OK with that I really think you need to check yourself. Jesus certainly wouldn't have been a Republican, but he sure as hell wouldn't have been a Democrat either, far from it. 55 million abortions performed in the US since 1973. If Jesus were alive today he would do more than turn over some tables in response to that staggering number.

[SuperJon]

That outta make you feel better SJ

I actually cringed and rethought it to make sure I believed it.

[Flamesfanva]

Let us keep it simple.

1. Abortion is murder
2. Democrats support murder (abortion)
3. I could therefore never support Democrats, regardless of how much "good" is in the party with regards to feeding the poor, homeless, etc. Abortion kills it for me....no pun intended.

I like your logical thoughts.

Abortion is a hideous stain upon America. How anyone could support a political party that upholds that is beyond me. Abortion is bad enough, but to then not even want to forbid partial birth abortions. The blood of aborted babies are on the hands of the Democratic party and all those who support abortion.

[ATrain]

Taking this back on topic, we made the Richmond fishwrap. I can't watch the video since I'm at work:

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2012 ... -vi-41759/

[ALUmnus]

ALumnus- how does your stereotype have merit? I was unaware 'warm and fuzzy' was a specific condition. And why do you have to look to Sly to make an argument that you have passion about?

The Sly comment was a running joke from the last couple days that has probably run its coarse.
Look, it's been long established that the "Christian left", or liberal Christianity, had abandoned the supremecy of Scripture many years ago. It is a man-centered, works-based, results-measured faith. These are churches where people go to hear nice "wisdom" from an old book to get their religious appetite sated (and yes, I realize there are many sitting in the pews of conservative evangelical churches who do this same thing). The "good things" that they do have very little to do with grace, but are a part of their horrendous misunderstanding of it. And I thought it was ignorant and cliche of SJ to imply that the "Christian right" is absent from the true works of the church, lacking in love and grace. Unless he's talking about the extremes, but I don't think the extremes are really relevant.

[TH Spangler]

Let us keep it simple.
I was unaware that abortion was the unpardonable sin.

Certainly not unpardonable, nothing is. But usually a consequence follows a poor choice. I have wondered many times, did God send us a little brain that contained the cure for cancer and we prematurely extinguished it?

[Purple Haize]

logic- yes, abortion IS a pardonable sin. We celebrate those who have murdered dozens and turn to Christ. Yet we demonize and ostracize those who have abortions. Is Gods grace not sufficient? No one forces someone to have an abortion. This is not China. People are allowed to chose whether they have abortion or not of their own God given free will. The Democratic Party does not advocate forced abortions. Seeing an abortion has nothing to do with the argument. I've seen a lot of things that make me ill, doesn't make them wrong. Ever seen a man executed? It's irrelevant. One doesn't have to be 'ok with it ' and can work to change hearts and minds, to provide support. Did I also miss the day they discussed the Severity of Sin list?

ALU - any argument that starts 'It has long been established...' Is a weak one. Just because one party accepts it does not mean it is true. It could be just as easily said that the Right has lost sight and placed limits on Gods grace mercy and love. Who knew God had limits?