[huntandfish]

As a Liberty guy out of the loop now. What is the relationship like between the old guys (former players under Worthington and Richardson) and the coaching staff.

[Sly Fox]

Tough to generalize. But you clearly are from my generation and the Breams & Tomlins are around the program to a limited degree.

[Hold My Own]

I think you made that user name because you wanted to post a "baited" question

[huntandfish]

Maybe a baited question don't see a ton of the old guys showing a lot of love to the program.

As a Liberty guy out of the loop now. What is the relationship like between the old guys (former players under Worthington and Richardson) and the coaching staff.

There has to be a reason for that or maybe I m reading into something. I know there are a number of guys that are coaching high school kids and they seem to be sending guys to other places. Why not liberty? Again just saying but I think something is missing cause these guys have wanted to send kids just got no love. Again this is just a topic the old guys are taking about . By the way great play on words

[rogers3]

Maybe a baited question don't see a ton of the old guys showing a lot of love to the program.

As a Liberty guy out of the loop now. What is the relationship like between the old guys (former players under Worthington and Richardson) and the coaching staff.

There has to be a reason for that or maybe I m reading into something. I know there are a number of guys that are coaching high school kids and they seem to be sending guys to other places. Why not liberty? Again just saying but I think something is missing cause these guys have wanted to send kids just got no love. Again this is just a topic the old guys are taking about . By the way great play on words

I know of one local coach who played for LU and doesn't have much love for the current program.

[BJWilliams]

That certainly was a loaded question to be sure...

[huntandfish]

Why is that a loaded question?

[BJWilliams]

Well no matter how its answered, somebody is going to look bad. Either Coach Toman for not reaching out to the alumni or you for potentially sounding like you had some axe to grind (you probably dont, but someone from the outside may infer that based on the question)

[flameshaw]

I know a few old guys who are helping the program and talk to Toman almost weekly. Maybe it is just who you hang out with, or what kind of discussion you want to start, or pot you want to stir.

[jinxy]

I think we've beat this horse to death since the end of the tourney. With Toman back in the saddle and hopefully committed to take us to the next level isn't it time we get back behind the program and push forward. This is a very big year for the athletics dept in general with the FBS discussion, new baseball park, lots of additions to the basketball program, first year under Gill, golf coming off the best finish ever.

[huntandfish]

Been out of pocket and thought I would beat the dead horse again. To my point re the miss with the "old guys" and the new coaching staff. I read the post about the class of 2013 and did my resarch and found out a number of the guys are from NC and the greater Charlotte area. I know that area has a HS with a LU grad as its high school coach that has had some really good players over the past years. I think he said three have played in the CWS and even has one in the big leagues. When ask why he does not send his players to LU he said its simple they don't recuit my guys. That is my point why not go after family first? If kids are that good and going to big time programs why not go after them. Im just saying......

[BJWilliams]

I think its a two way street when it comes to recruiting, whether you are an alum or not. If the guy is an LU alum, why doesnt he drop Coach a note saying,

"Dear Coach, Im an alum of Liberty (insert year of graduation here) and I am now a coach at (insert name of school here). I have some players I think you ought to take a look at that would be great assets to the program." Then include the players names, their stats and if possible some video of them in action. You have to remember that coaches arent mind readers.

[Hold My Own]

Greg Simmons. Great coach, great players. I went to a game a few years back. His CF was hands down the best HS baseball player I've ever seen (ended up being in the top 5 rounds I think). I think his SS went to USC as well that same year.

[huntandfish]

I would like to respond to the post re why the coach would not call LU staff etc... That is a great question and I ask him the responds was ,"I do every year." Wow and this guy has guy playing all over the country. Come on. Somebody tell the staff to reach out to the alums might be a plus.

[BJWilliams]

Its good that he reaches out to the coach huntandfish. I emailed a coach (different sport) here about someone from my high school a few years ago. He checked him out and started recruiting him. The thing you have to remember after reaching out is that coaches look for players that best fit their philosophy as it relates to the given sport. to use football as an example, if a kid works in a spread offense in HS, and that coach contacts a college where they run a pro style of offense, that coach probably won't recruit that player as actively as he would another that works out of a pro style of offense. If a basketball coach runs the "Princeton offense, he is going to look for players that can work in that style, and not always try to get kids that may be really good, but they do not fit his overall philosophy and he is then left to try to "shoe horn" players into places where their skill set goes either underutilized or undeveloped altogether.

[huntandfish]

I do understand that as far as BB and FB goes. But if this alums guys can play at the schools they are going to and going to the CWS. I think they can play at LU. I mean this is not rocket science. On a side note I do love the fact that you are so loyal to the coaches and the university. It is OK to agree JT needs to do a better job with the alums. And it should start with recuiting the alums players. It would be a neat thing to see how many former players that are coaches have players at LU now. Looks like you need to go to JUCO first.

[BJWilliams]

possibly. I dont know what JT's philosophy is (we can infer it from on field exploits) but I do think that it plays a role in who he goes after, whether an alum is his coach or not. I do agree that reaching out to alums (especially those who are baseball coaches) would help but there is more to it than him just not wanting to

[flameshaw]

I know for a fact that Toman talks to some alums almost weekly. He also talks to several alums who were never contacted for several years, before he arrived. Can he/we do better? Probably so, however, not sure we have the manpower to follow up on all the kids that they are told about.
JUCO's? Guess who sends him some of the JUCO players that we sign? Former alums in many cases.

I know JT has not endeared himself to everyone, but he is not as bad as some make him out to be either. We beat several playoff teams this year. Admittedly we still didn't beat Coastal, but not many in the BSC have.

[huntandfish]

That's great but I have not heard that from any of my former teammates. It would be a good thing to bridge the gap between his guys and the old guys. After all the old guys are the ones that laid the ground work for what he has now. Enough said about that. I know i have some teammate with good players and JT is no where to be found. From what I get from these guys is there is no respect for them anymore as a LU baseball grad. One guy said he was told they simply have better players now. ( Well that may be true but I played with some pretty good ones.) If these kids were going to DII schools or bad DI school that would be one thing but these guys are going to some good programs. I'm not as my kids would say hating on JT he seems to be a nice guys just out of touch with the LU alums.

[BJWilliams]

As I said HNF, a lot of it comes down to whether or not these kids fit JT's philosophy. Also, he has to look at where his greatest needs are positionally. If a coach (LU alum or not) for instance has a guy that plays OF/C but there are already players on the roster that play one or both of those positions (especially if they are freshmen or sophomores), he is going to be less inclined to add another guy who may not see the field for two or three years.

[huntandfish]

Dude I need to hire your as my PR guy. That all sounds good but is crazy. If kids want to go to LU and are going to other schools that are playing in the CWS or in a regional then we are recuiting the wrong guys. I hate seeing guys sending kids to other places. But when these guys talk about the lack of respect then fill when they talk to JT it is no wander they are sending kids to other places. Sad to see but they are big boys and are fine. I guess I just started a mess.

[jcmanson]

No, according to Beej, anyone employed by LU is perfect and makes no wrong decisions.

[BJWilliams]

I (and flameshaw to a point) am simply saying that what may seem like one thing at its face value, can have some additional backstory to it. Flameshaw mentioned that he has quite a few alums that he is in contact with on a regular basis. I was simply elaborating as best I can on what goes on in a coach's mind when he is looking at players. Would it be hood if we had U alum coaches sending players back to the mountain? Absolutely, but its not as open and shut as you make it sound as to why guys arent being recruited.

and contrary to manson's point, only one person is perfect, and Im pretty sure He doesnt work at LU (yes I just made a Jesus Juke)

[jcmanson]

[jinxy]

If the guys are that good you take no matter what position they play. So the scheme argument doesn't apply in baseball with all the turnover. I dont know i would have to hear names about players to fully agree because every Christian school thinks they have the next big nuggett for LU (not saying that about your situation just saying that it happens a ton in basketball especially)