[ALUmnus]

You do realize that marriage is not a basic, carte blanche right, and that EVERY marriage has to be approved, right? Marriages (note: between heterosexuals) get denied because of many many reasons, including moral ones.

[El Scorcho]

In a study of 900+ Gay men, 47% admitted to being sexually abused as a child.
In that same study , 7% Straight men admitted to being sexually abused as a child.
Its not in every case, I just think the statistaics show its a definate reality.

What study is this? Link please.

[R i]

http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/05/a-m ... revisited/


In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation.

I was quoting from memory. But the fact remains, there is a trend.

[El Scorcho]

http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/06/05/a-m ... revisited/

I was quoting from memory. But the fact remains, there is a trend.

Actually, the fact doesn't remain that at all. Did you read that link?

The study by Widom and Wilson demonstrated that physical abuse or neglect did not associate with homosexuality, nor did sexual abuse predict same-sex cohabitation or current sexual partner. In other words, measures of behavior (living with a same-sex partner ever, or living with one in the last year) that would be more reflective of orientation were not associated with histories of child sexual abuse. For males, ever engaging in homosexual behavior, however, was associated with sexual abuse. Many observers are not surprised by this finding which indicates that sexual behavior is associated with past abuse but enduring orientation may not be.

The bottom line is that the study should not be cited until a follow up correction can be made. The main results — gays report more abuse than straights — may indeed be correct, given the similarity to past studies. However, I do not believe any inferences about causation should be made.

One final thought, the research on sexual abuse among GLBT populations is often misused to make inferences about causation. There are many reasons why this line of research is important but causation is not at the top. Sexual abuse is a profoundly disruptive experience for many people and may contribute to a variety of negative outcomes in adulthood. Finding appropriate clinical and ministry responses may be clouded by focusing on the trauma as a cause of same-sex attraction.

[El Scorcho]

You do realize that marriage is not a basic, carte blanche right, and that EVERY marriage has to be approved, right? Marriages (note: between heterosexuals) get denied because of many many reasons, including moral ones.

Me?

[RubberMallet]

that was a funny article....the numbers show this...but we feel the numbers don't mean what you think they mean. articles with statistics regarding homosexuality are always biased and twisted to show exactly what the researcher wants them to for the most part.

[El Scorcho]

i think it can be choice in some instances but i don't believe Atrain was pre-natally any more gay than i was. (genetically predisposed). post natal outside influences and experiences guide us into the people that we become and in the end God will sort it all out.

I appreciate that you noted that it's what you believe, but I'm wondering why you believe it. I have a hard time believing that we all start out as completely neutral palettes wired for exactly the same instincts. It just doesn't seem possible to me with the nature of genetics and the way the brain works.

[ATrain]

I have never been sexually attracted to women.

I have also never been abused/molested. Also, I think gay men are more comfortable admitting sexual relations (consensual or forced) with other men than straight men.

Now carry on.

[ALUmnus]

You do realize that marriage is not a basic, carte blanche right, and that EVERY marriage has to be approved, right? Marriages (note: between heterosexuals) get denied because of many many reasons, including moral ones.

Me?

No, R i about taking away someone's rights.

[NG33]

I have no dog in fight, but Scorcho, Ri's link did show that, at least for those in the study, homosexual men tend to have more sexual traumatic experiences in their lives then straight men. Now does sexual abuse lead to homosexuality? Not necessarily, but if anything it's quite the coincidence.

Also this quote you used...

The bottom line is that the study should not be cited until a follow up correction can be made. The main results — gays report more abuse than straights — may indeed be correct, given the similarity to past studies. However, I do not believe any inferences about causation should be made.

.. does imply that more studies have shown that gay men are more likely to have been subjugated to sexual abuse.

[jbock13]

Im not sure what this has to do with anything... it's kind of irrelevant.

I've made my biblical justification for what I believe. and I'd be interested in hearing others on both sides of the issue.

[adam42381]

I know several gay guys who claim they've known since they were very young that they were attracted to the same sex. None of them were molested or anything like that. Based on long conversations I've had with them, I have to conclude that they were born with their attractions. I never chose to be attracted to females, I just always have been. Why assume they made a choice to be attracted to males?

[RubberMallet]

i think it can be choice in some instances but i don't believe Atrain was pre-natally any more gay than i was. (genetically predisposed). post natal outside influences and experiences guide us into the people that we become and in the end God will sort it all out.

I appreciate that you noted that it's what you believe, but I'm wondering why you believe it. I have a hard time believing that we all start out as completely neutral palettes wired for exactly the same instincts. It just doesn't seem possible to me with the nature of genetics and the way the brain works.

just like we are all wired to hunger for food so we nourish ourselves, in the same way were are predisposed to procreate. obviously, i'm by no means a geneticist, but i read alot on the subject and have been able to piece my feelings together on the subject.

[RubberMallet]

I know several gay guys who claim they've known since they were very young that they were attracted to the same sex. None of them were molested or anything like that. Based on long conversations I've had with them, I have to conclude that they were born with their attractions. I never chose to be attracted to females, I just always have been. Why assume they made a choice to be attracted to males?

why assume they didn't? if you've had an experience with this situation you have the ability to come up with your own conclusions. i don't take much into account what people "remember" when they were younger. i liked what people told me to like. i told someone one time that i've always loved malted milk balls as long as i can remember....my mom says i'm crazy...until i was in 6th grade that i hated them.

you can also find a study that will support your stance. the internet has made that pretty easy. there is no concrete evidence either way

the majority of the people i know that are gay and have had the conversation with had some weird traumatic experience in their life that they will even attribute to the feelings they have today. its doesn't even have to be that big of an ordeal. just something that flips the switch that i believe we all have, its just activated in different ways and can be activated at any time in our life. its how our brain works. they have found that decisions or events that happened in a persons life as an infant can have an outcome on the way they are into their adulthood through theraputic methods.

we do have one guy at work who will tell you flat out that he chose it to spite his parents and it stuck. but a handful of experiences doesn't allow one to make a blanket statement over an entire group of people.

[RubberMallet]

in related news....jerry jones is not a fan of chick fil a

[youtube]

[/youtube]

[adam42381]

in related news....jerry jones is not a fan of chick fil a

[youtube]

[/youtube]

"I want me some glory hole."

[NG33]

we do have one guy at work who will tell you flat out that he chose it to spite his parents and it stuck. but a handful of experiences doesn't allow one to make a blanket statement over an entire group of people.

We actually have a family friend who will people straight up that he choose to be gay. He actually was married for almost 20 years, but after she cheated on him multiple times he said screw it and started dating guys. Of course I won't claim that it happens to every homosexuals, but from what he tells us it isn't as uncommon as we are led to believe.

[RubberMallet]

it would be better to just post youtube videos than have these conversations. my main goal was to get scorcho to renig on his "i'm bowing out" statement which is pretty easy to do nowadays.

[LUconn]

From a biblical standpoint, I don't think being predisposed, choice, or genetics are relevant to a homosexual lifestyle. And by homosexual lifestyle, I don't mean just being attracted to the same sex.

[ALUmnus]

From a biblical standpoint, I don't think being predisposed, choice, or genetics are relevant to a homosexual lifestyle. And by homosexual lifestyle, I don't mean just being attracted to the same sex.

No, no, that's not good enough. You have to explain what you do mean by "homosexual lifestyle", per Atrain.

[LUconn]

ok, I mean really anything more than attraction.

[R i]

I should not have introduced stats from the internet. I can find surveys that support both.

It has been my experience that the gay males I have met in my life, have suffered from abuse or a traumatic situation. To give you numbers, 6 out of the 9 Gay guys I have had this particular conversation with, Counting ATrain, have been molested as a child.

[RubberMallet]

ok, I mean really anything more than attraction.

LIIIIIIKE???

[jbock13]

I should not have introduced stats from the internet. I can find surveys that support both.

It has been my experience that the gay males I have met in my life, have suffered from abuse or a traumatic situation. To give you numbers, 6 out of the 9 Gay guys I have had this particular conversation with, Counting ATrain, have been molested as a child.

The problem is that all the information you will find on the internet will be from the radical gay groups (like GLAAD), or the nuts who irrationally hate all gays.

[flamehunter]

A male having attraction for another male is no different than a heterosexual married man feeling attraction for another woman. If that attraction is allowed fester until it leads to action that is outside of God's design (married heterosexual relations) it then becomes sin. That can be as simple as lusting in your heart after them, as Jesus said.