[Purple Haize]

Might as well be an independent at that point if the SB and CCU leave and the BSC consists of

1. Liberty
2. Gardner-Webb
3. VMI
4. Presby
5. CSU

Did I miss anyone? Campbell? Aren't they non-scholarship? I just don't see how we could remain anything close to respected/relevant in this type of Big South.

It is obvious you don't understand what being Independent mean. Try recruiting kids to Liberty asan Independent, at either level.

[Blessed1]

Might as well be an independent at that point if the SB and CCU leave and the BSC consists of

1. Liberty
2. Gardner-Webb
3. VMI
4. Presby
5. CSU

Did I miss anyone? Campbell? Aren't they non-scholarship? I just don't see how we could remain anything close to respected/relevant in this type of Big South.

The Big South's best bet it to invite the remaining football-playing members of the Gulf South:

1. N. Alabama
2. Valdosta St.
3. W. Georgia
4. W. Alabama
5. Delta St.

They could invite W. Florida is they promise to start football in the next 5 years. In 2015, Invite Kennesaw St. for all-sports. Yes, I'm reaching a bit, but if Stony Brook and Coastal leaves and Campbell stays non-scholarship, the Big South have to dig somewhere for football playing members.

[TH Spangler]

Talked to a couple of people last night and it sounds like the Sun Belt deal isn't totally dead either. But if the WAC works out we are going. The Belt isn't going to 12 teams this year, but I've heard that C-USA isn't done.

I think the Belt, WAC and MAC actually work together more than they work against each other. I have nothing to back it up, but I believe the Belt held off going to 12 and the MAC is on hold to see if the WAC East comes together before deciding on their next move.

[Chris Lang]

The holdup with the Sun Belt is with the presidents, not the ADs. I really think the NCAA needs to give schools a firm answer on the moratorium issue so they can make better decisions.

[LUconn]

I think everybody here needs to be on the same page about being an Independent. Unless it's temporary, it's an awful idea.

[logic]

Haize - That comment was more so in jest, but if the little South really does get that bad we're "Lewis Blacked" either way.

Agree independent is bad - not sure why it has been discussed so much as it is not an option. Let's move the discussion back to the WAC. Meetings open up tomorrow morning. Surely someone out there knows something. Any recent Falwell1 flights out west?

[Purple Haize]

I think everybody here needs to be on the same page about being an Independent. It's an awful idea.

FIFY

[Purple Haize]

Agree independent is bad - not sure why it has been discussed so much as it is not an option.

Because NAJ, Tally, Blessed and even you have stated its not a bad idea or the worst idea. That is until this post where now you agree it IS bad

[NotAJerry]

Agree independent is bad - not sure why it has been discussed so much as it is not an option.

Because NAJ, Tally, Blessed and even you have stated its not a bad idea or the worst idea. That is until this post where now you agree it IS bad

Actually, we all mentioned it as a worst case scenario and only an option if the WAC folds after we move up to FBS and nobody else is willing to let us in. At that point it would have to happen as a move back to FCS isn't acceptable. It would still be better than staying in the Big South.

[Purple Haize]

And this is where we disagree. For starters we are IN FCS so we can't really move back to a place we never left in the first place. As bad it is staying in the Big South is better then going Independent.

[TallyW]

And this is where we disagree. For starters we are IN FCS so we can't really move back to a place we never left in the first place. As bad it is staying in the Big South is better then going Independent.

Purple...
Please keep up...

NO ONE is arguing that we should jump now and go to FBS as an independent.

For one that is impossible. We are required to be invited by a conference. We can not and will not even be able to entertain the viability of going independent from the FCS.

SO....

What has been discussed by the rest of us has been the merit of taking a WAC-E bid even if at some point later football isn't viable in their conference. AT THAT POINT we would have do decide what to do next.

THEREFORE...

Nearly everyone would love for us to go ahead and join one of the other conferences such as Sun Belt, MAC or CUSA. IF WE ARE NOT INVITED AT THAT POINT WE WOULD BECOME AN INDEPENDENT BY DEFAULT. (We're talking years here... after we've been in the FBS... after we've started to recruit at that level... etc.) Liberty graduated just under 4,000 students five years ago. Now we're graduating over 14,000. So a 5 year window CAN have significant change attached to it. Who knows. It'll be bumpy at first and we'll have to work hard but TG had a good deal of success at Buffalo pretty quickly so it isn't unheard of to get noticed within the first few years of making the move.

TO RECAP...
No one is suggesting going independent FBS right now.... we can't. We are suggesting that we take the first ticket out of this slow moving stream called the Big South and head to the open ocean waters of the FBS. We feel confident in the boat we're on and the boat we'll build along the way to be able to handle the waves. You apparently think we have to have the ocean liner from day-1. I just want us to start by moving the boat into a new dock.

ARE WE UNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER NOW?

[logic]

Agree independent is bad - not sure why it has been discussed so much as it is not an option.

Because NAJ, Tally, Blessed and even you have stated its not a bad idea or the worst idea. That is until this post where now you agree it IS bad

Actually, we all mentioned it as a worst case scenario and only an option if the WAC folds after we move up to FBS and nobody else is willing to let us in. At that point it would have to happen as a move back to FCS isn't acceptable. It would still be better than staying in the Big South.

Agree here.

And this is where we disagree. For starters we are IN FCS so we can't really move back to a place we never left in the first place. As bad it is staying in the Big South is better then going Independent.

Disagree here.



Haize, what if we move up and 4 years down the road the WAC folds and for whatever reason we cannot move into or form an eastern league? At that point would it be better to go independent or reclassify to FCS ? If you answer FCS you're more of a cynic than I thought.

[Purple Haize]

Actually you haven't been reading but that doesn't suprise me. The argument was made that being Independent is better then the BSC. The discussion was all about the NOW not 5 years from now. It was also about taking the first offer And I stated that it is not necessarily the best approach.
If you want to talk about 5 years down the road then go ahead.
If our current choices were BSC or FBS Independent, then staying put is the best option. If we already were IN an FBS Conference it would make no sense to move down to FCS. So what's your point? We don't even have an FBS conference offerto determine whether it would be a good fit or not.

[Purple Haize]

The holdup with the Sun Belt is with the presidents, not the ADs.

That has been my understanding of the situation for a while as well. Benson and the AD's were on board, but the President's weren't.

If Ron Paul were President......oh wait, wrong thread.

[TallyW]

IMO being Independent FBS would be the worst possible move for us. Although it might finally get us our long awaited shot at Notre Dame! Who would we schedule? With all of these Mega conferences there are not many dates open now during the season for OOC games.
How do u recruit that? Come play at LU where you have a chance to play for.....nothing. Come to LU because we are FBS without the B part! At least in the BSCwe can play for a National Championship. How would being Independent be any better then where we are now? We have already said we can move to a conference in 48 hours. Would moving to 'Independent' mean we could move into a conference in 36 hours?

Faith has been restored! Some actually READ my posts and realize I was mainly talking about Independent status. I also brought up that we shouldn't necessarily jump at the first offer. Apparently that makes me less then compotent! I even stated which Conferences would be good fits, but apparently people are blinded by their Pre conceived notions to see through anything that does not fit their thinking.

Yeah... you're right... you never talked about your negativity to becoming an FBS independent. I thought I actually read that somewhere... guess not. Man... I really should read.

[TallyW]

If our current choices were BSC or FBS Independent, then staying put is the best option.

Why are you still bringing this up as an option? Are you talking to yourself?

[Purple Haize]

Wait, are you saying I'm now somehow in FAVOR of being an Independent? Let me be clear for those who are not.
The Big South is currently where we are.
Being in theBig South is currently better then being an FBS Independent
Others brought up the hypothetical of being FBS Independent next year or near future.
We have no offers to be in an FBS conference.
Just because we receive an FBS invite does not mean we should take it.
I like taking calculated risks, which means sometimes the first thing to come along is good sometimes it's not. This apparently makes me a poor leader
I have not discussed anything 5 years down the road because it's irrelevant.

[Sly Fox]

Chris is dead on. The Sun Belt situation is similar to the MAC situation. If this were about athletics only, we would probably have an invitation by now. But think about who these individuals are that make up university presidents. These academicians and not ones to think the way the rest of the world thinks. Until they see from the academic & (even more important) cultural advantage, they are not as inclined to jump into alignment with anyone.

And Haize, I agree that FBS independence is not appealing. I think everyone agrees. We are in a semantics skirmish at the moment. One that frankly is unlikely to be an issue now or anytime in the near future.

[TallyW]

Hugs all around.

[Purple Haize]

I got your hugs right here....

[BJWilliams]

[TallyW]

I got your hugs right here....

[logic]

Just because we receive an FBS invite does not mean we should take it.
I like taking calculated risks, which means sometimes the first thing to come along is good sometimes it's not.

This is what we are not agreeing with. Look no further than TCU. You can always move later. Getting to FBS is the hardest part. Possible moratorium, depleted Big South, TG coming here for FBS dreams and so forth are reason enough. No one will be missing the Big South even if we aren't 100% happy with our lot in FBS. That is unless you consider regional rivalries with VMI and Gardner-Webb epic clashes worth staying in the Big South for...............

[Purple Haize]

Just because we receive an FBS invite does not mean we should take it.
I like taking calculated risks, which means sometimes the first thing to come along is good sometimes it's not.

This is what we are not agreeing with. Look no further than TCU. You can always move later. Getting to FBS is the hardest part. Possible moratorium, depleted Big South, TG coming here for FBS dreams and so forth are reason enough. No one will be missing the Big South even if we aren't 100% happy with our lot in FBS. That is unless you consider regional rivalries with VMI and Gardner-Webb epic clashes worth staying in the Big South for...............

We are not TCU.

[BJWilliams]

That I agree with...that being said, we cant speak to anything definitive about our status as it relates to the process because we arent in the room with JB and all the folks that are part of that decision making process. we certainly can speculate, but thats all it is...speculation.