[Cider Jim]

The local newspaper picked up the story this morning:

http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2012/a ... r-1854148/

[Purple Haize]

Congrats to Liberty for getting such a large name to speak. To bad this is creating such a division on campus and its not a political argument from what i can tell it more along the lines of people dont want him here bc he is a Mormon.

Now while I dont agree at all with him on pretty much anything it would still be cool to hear him bc he is famous. Just like I would like to hear Obama speak as well. My only thing is I hope he stays away from anything political. If he does start campaigning then he doesnt need to be there.

As for Convo tomorrow im very excited. They will announce this to the students tomorrow and also Mark Driscoll speaks as well. This could be the most polarizing Convo i have ever heard in my 3 years.

I haven't seen this much excitment on campus about convo since Trd Dibiasi was here!

[Hold My Own]

@PastorMark is bound to be the happiest man on earth right now

I'm not touching any of this with a 10 foot pole but I will say this...last years commencement was one of the best speeches I've heard in years.


That is all...carry on

[Purple Haize]

I wonder if he will bring Seamus? J/K. Seamus is no longer with us

[SuperJon]

Not sure how/why some of you only see politics here and not see an incredible media opportunity to spread the name of Liberty University.

glad someone gets it

I thought we were about the opportunity to spread the name of Jesus?

</jesusjuke>

[jcmanson]

Not sure how/why some of you only see politics here and not see an incredible media opportunity to spread the name of Liberty University.

glad someone gets it

I thought we were about the opportunity to spread the name of Jesus?

</jesusjuke>

I knew that was coming. Spreading the name of Liberty should be (and I believe is) sharing the name of Jesus. I love every time I get to mention where I went to college. It's an easy way to begin witnessing. Next question I always get - isn't that Falwell's school? - or - isn't that a Christian school?

It's the same reason why we want our athletic teams to compete at the highest level.

[Humble_Opinion]

Well, it's true. He will bring a ton of exposure to the university. Of course, it will bring further ammunition to those who say Liberty is much more about supporting the Republican party than Christ.

People who say that either: 1) Have their head buried in the sand a few feet or 2) Know nothing about Liberty University, or the people who work, attend and teach here. I can understand the frustration (to some degree) of people worrying about Romney's faith, but Liberty University has always been active politically - something that was instilled in our culture by the Founder (as you probably know). Are we all a bunch of card toting Republicans though? No... But the Republican party does carry more of a "social conservative" agenda - and that's a historic fact that can't be argued with. Therefore, of course most of the "political" speakers that come here will be Republicans, as the university has placed a high premium on that sector of the political landscape.

However, there are many more independents and even a good bunch of liberals on campus, and none of them are ever discriminated against in the same way as most conservatives are on 75% of college campuses today. Liberty always extends an open invitation to both parties, and while we usually are turned down by one party - there have been several that have shown up including the likes of Ted Kennedy.

[Purple Haize]

Since the Secret Service will be here will we see more 'call girls' then normal?

[Rooster Cogburn]

[
I knew that was coming. Spreading the name of Liberty should be (and I believe is) sharing the name of Jesus. I love every time I get to mention where I went to college. It's an easy way to begin witnessing. Next question I always get - isn't that Falwell's school? - or - isn't that a Christian school?

It's the same reason why we want our athletic teams to compete at the highest level.

THIS!

[Humble_Opinion]

Since the Secret Service will be here will we see more 'call girls' then normal?

Ha I was wondering how long it would take for this joke to be used - it will be an interesting day on campus though... this is for sure. I'm just surprised you aren't cancelling your vacation to stay and watch Romney.

[alabama24]

What will do more to reveal to the United States the mission of Liberty University? What will shine a bigger light to the great commission?

What selfishness that Romney doesn't line up with YOUR religious beliefs and YOUR political stance. YOU YOU YOU...Put your feelings aside and understand this is good for the university, even if it may not be "right" in your eyes.

Logic - Let me share another way of thinking about this. I have already expressed that I am ok with, and even a little excited about the speaker. Here are my concerns, however.

1. What is "good for the university" is subservient to the "Great Commission."
2. Your comments about Romney not lining up with "YOUR religious beliefs" is truly troubling.
3. Having a Mormon speaker at commencement becomes a problem to me (a big one) if it gives credibility to the Mormon Faith.
4. Politically, Romney would do well to come and sound evangelical. Unfortunately that would do considerable harm to the Great Commission, and consequently, the mission and well being of the School.

If his commencement speech is like his "religion speech" four years ago, I will be very disappointed. I hope the chancellor and the administration steer him in another direction. Four years ago, Romney did his best to portray the LDS Church as another denomination. He said that the moral foundation of America was "not unique to any one denomination."

Here is an excerpt from that troubling speech:

"There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. My church's beliefs about Christ may not all be the same as those of other faiths. Each religion has its own unique doctrines and history. These are not bases for criticism but rather a test of our tolerance. Religious tolerance would be a shallow principle indeed if it were reserved only for faiths with which we agree.

"There are some who would have a presidential candidate describe and explain his church's distinctive doctrines. To do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the Constitution. No candidate should become the spokesman for his faith. For if he becomes President he will need the prayers of the people of all faiths.

"I believe that every faith I have encountered draws its adherents closer to God. And in every faith I have come to know, there are features I wish were in my own: I love the profound ceremony of the Catholic Mass, the approachability of God in the prayers of the Evangelicals, the tenderness of spirit among the Pentecostals, the confident independence of the Lutherans, the ancient traditions of the Jews, unchanged through the ages, and the commitment to frequent prayer of the Muslims. As I travel across the country and see our towns and cities, I am always moved by the many houses of worship with their steeples, all pointing to heaven, reminding us of the source of life's blessings.

Read more: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/politic ... z1saPVevhI

[alabama24]

I'm not touching any of this with a 10 foot pole but I will say this...last years commencement was one of the best speeches I've heard in years.

I absolutely agree.

I am more excited about this choice because it is an election year. I do not think that we have to have speakers that we agree with theologically or politically. The biggest criterion is that the speaker be respectful of our views during the speech.

EDIT: I wrote this post before the previous one, but I guess the post didn't take.

[Purple Haize]

'Bama- thanks for posting that speech. However, I didn't find it troubling at all.

"Religious tolerance would be a shallow principle indeed if it were reserved only for faiths with which we agree.' - Is absolutely true!

"There are some who would have a presidential candidate describe and explain his church's distinctive doctrines. To do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the Constitution. No candidate should become the spokesman for his faith. For if he becomes President he will need the prayers of the people of all faiths." - if my Pastor said this I'd have a problem with it.

More from the speech:
"As governor, I tried to do the right as best I knew it, serving the law and answering to the Constitution. I did not confuse the particular teachings of my church with the obligations of the office and of the Constitution – and of course, I would not do so as President. I will put no doctrine of any church above the plain duties of the office and the sovereign authority of the law.


"Then Sam Adams rose, and said he would hear a prayer from anyone of piety and good character, as long as they were a patriot.

Read more: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/politic ... z1sagzIVh7


Also, Glen Beck is an outspoken Mormon. Also Newt is a devote Catholic, and people like my parents think they are going to hell too, along with the Episcopalians and Presbyterians. Look at his personal actions and see if they mirror his faith. You will find they do, he was even a better community organizer then our current POTUS! I just don't understand why people discount someone from being President because of their religious beliefs. I kinda sorta thought the Reformation and our Founding Fathers tried to get us away from that?

[SuperJon]

I thought we were about the opportunity to spread the name of Jesus?

</jesusjuke>

I knew that was coming. Spreading the name of Liberty should be (and I believe is) sharing the name of Jesus. I love every time I get to mention where I went to college. It's an easy way to begin witnessing. Next question I always get - isn't that Falwell's school? - or - isn't that a Christian school?

It's the same reason why we want our athletic teams to compete at the highest level.

I just had to bust on that line. I thought you'd see the joke with I put the </jesusjuke> thing in there but I guess it didn't come across that way.

[Purple Haize]

Since the Secret Service will be here will we see more 'call girls' then normal?

Ha I was wondering how long it would take for this joke to be used - it will be an interesting day on campus though... this is for sure. I'm just surprised you aren't cancelling your vacation to stay and watch Romney.

Really? You zing me for that but not the Seamus comment?
And I had the wrong date so I WILL be in town. Wonder if I need to camp out to get a good seat?!

[alabama24]

'Bama- thanks for posting that speech. However, I didn't find it troubling at all.

Which is perhaps the most troubling thing and why I have any concerns at all about Romney speaking.

Look at his personal actions and see if they mirror his faith. You will find they do

That's not the point. I didn't say that he beat his wife, or that he cheated on his taxes.

I just don't understand why people discount someone from being President because of their religious beliefs.

I didn't say any such thing. I would, however, be much more open to Romney if he were muslim. My biggest problem with Romney is that he isn't honest about his faith. He isn't a Christian, he is a Mormon. He doesn't belong to "another denomination," he belongs to a different faith. Any chasm between "baptists" and "presbyterians," or even "evangelicalism" and "catholicism" pales in comparison. If Romney were muslim, he would be laughed off the stage if he claimed to be part of another "denomination." This strategy is a concerted effort on the part of the LDS church.

"There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind.

What he doesn't tell you is that he believes Jesus is the brother of Lucifer, Satan.

He doesn't tell you that he believes that Jesus is the physical "Son of God," the result of the physical union between "God the Father" and one of his wives.

He doesn't tell you that the goal of mormonism is to become a god: (As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.)

"I believe that every faith I have encountered draws its adherents closer to God."

Can we all sing, Kum Ba Ya?

If Mitt Romney had just given a speech on religious freedom and religious tolerance, I would have been OK with that. But he didn't.

Mitt Romney claims to be a "Christian." I believe that he is sincere in that claim. What he doesn't tell you is that he doesn't believe that WE are Christians, since the LDS church is the "only true church" and that all others are "apostate."

I just don't understand why people discount someone from being President because of their religious beliefs. I kinda sorta thought the Reformation and our Founding Fathers tried to get us away from that?

You don't understand the reformation at all. The reformers didn't believe in religious freedom… The murderous lot killed those who didn't agree with them. It was the counter-reformers / Anabaptists who believed in religious freedom.

[Purple Haize]

I'll shotgun these:
We are having Romney as a guest and a speaker. We are not inviting him to take over LU.

I do not see anything in his life or your post that points to Romney being immoral. To me that is important. Morality and Policy are two different things.

From Romney's point of view he is not lying or being disingenuous. He firmly believes that the Church of Latter Day Saints is a Protestant offshoot. The fact that you and others disagree does not mean he is lying.

He was answering the question about his belief of Jesus Christ. He was not asked about his views on Satan. Again, he is NOT a Mormon theologian, e is not advocating Mormonism for all. He is much more tolerant then a lot of people.

What is wrong with religious tolerance? Intolerance will lead to what we saw in the Middle Ages, what we see now in the Middle East and the reason our founders left Europe.

Martin Luther killed people?

I can listen to what he has to say. The fact that I support him for President does not mean I support his religious views. The fact that I don't agree with his religious views does not make me think he is the AntiChrist or spawn of the devil.

[jbock13]

Good post Alabama. Though I'd add it was both Catholics and Reformers equally fighting during the Reformation.

[Purple Haize]

Good post Alabama. Though I'd add it was both Catholics and Reformers equally fighting during the Reformation.

Would that be because one group wanted to be free and the other didn't want them too because they would burn in hell if they were and they were trying to save their souls? And then those same people who were seeking freedom turned around on the next group and did the same thing to that group as they had done to them? Sorta taking that Do Unto Others thing in a different direction!

[jbock13]

No. They both hated each other. The Catholics sort of started it in France, but the Protestants became guilty of it in Germany. The anibaptists didn't believe in fighting or war or battling of any kind, they stayed out of the mess as best they could.

[Purple Haize]

Catholics begat and persecuted Protestants
Protestants begat and persecuted Anabaptists
Anabaptists begat Kelly McGillis and the movie Witness!

[Humble_Opinion]

My only point is this - if you have a problem with Mitt Romney being the speaker, that's fine. But if you start to speak ill of the university as a whole as having 'lost their way', because of a one time speech given by someone whom could potentially become the next POTUS whom has different religious beliefs, then I take issue with that.

If Mitt Romney (or any person from another religion) were going to be the Bacclaureate speaker, then I'd be up in arms. But this is a Commencement Address. Looking at our history of Commencement speakers, on most occasions there was not a higher discourse on religous thought.

And another thing - what about all of the media, secret service agents, campaign workers, etc. that will be on campus... are they not an end to the Great Commission as well?? How do you know that they don't need to hear and experience the Truth?

[alabama24]

I do not see anything in his life or your post that points to Romney being immoral.

Again, I never said any such thing. Mitt and Ann seem like wonderful people.

From Romney's point of view he is not lying or being disingenuous. He firmly believes that the Church of Latter Day Saints is a Protestant offshoot.

Wrong. He believes that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the restoration of the "one true church" and all others are "apostate." It is disingenuous for him (and other mormons) to claim to be a part of the Christian faith that they claim is Apostate, for the sake of winning converts (or votes).

If he were to have said, "I am not a Christian, I am a Mormon. I believe in religious tolerance for people of all faiths," I would be much less hesitant to vote for him. [Besides his religious faith, he wouldn't make my top 5 list, but that is a completely separate issue]

What is wrong with religious tolerance?

Nothing. Who has been intolerant? Who has advocated it?

Martin Luther killed people?

Off the top of my head, I can't remember what he did. Lutherans certainly did persecute and kill anabaptists.

[alabama24]

My only point is this - if you have a problem with Mitt Romney being the speaker, that's fine. But if you start to speak ill of the university as a whole as having 'lost their way', because of a one time speech given by someone whom could potentially become the next POTUS whom has different religious beliefs, then I take issue with that.

I hope you are not referencing me. As I hope I have made clear, I think Romney is a good choice for commencement speaker. I do think the administration should direct him to stay clear of religious topics or themes, (other than religious freedom).

[Purple Haize]

'Bama I don't think you have been intolerant, but have you read the posts of others? Vicious.

I can see where you are coming from on the LDS but disagree with your conclusion. Like it or not they do draw a lot of their teaching from Christianity and its easy to see it as on off shoot of it. IMO what you are advocating he say would be akin to the fire and brimstone preachers we all know and love. It would also put him in a theological debate that does no one any good. If LDSers want to think they are as Christian as Baptists, that's fine. I mean ToC thinks he is normal but we all know better!