[bradyfan]

[/quote][/quote][/quote]

You must be on crack. Do you really think it's that easy to get a replacement for an All-American caliber QB to come to Lynchburg? This isn't USC. MB is probably the best QB to ever play at Liberty if not the BSC as a whole. Do you think the folks who vote for All-Americans just continue to vote MB because they love Liberty? Give me a break. Or how about Mickey Matthews saying MB was the best QB JMU would face all year. I guess he only has a National Championship ring so he clearly can't know what he's talking about.

"He should have been able to make 75% more throws then he did" Maybe the dumbest thing I have ever read.

Throwing a football is a skill, and like all skills you have hot days and cold days. It's like hitting a driver and shooting 3 pointers. There aren't that many Reggie Miller, Luke Donald's and Tom Brady's out there. The rest of us need to deal with the reality that we're not going to be prefect every day. Yesterday was windy and the kid has a torn MCL, he is still the best athlete on LU's roster let alone at QB.

You say Mike only puts up number against week opposition. What about his 24-29 passing, 350 total yard, and 3 tds against JMU? Or his 380 yards and two td's against Lehigh? We lost both of those games but it wasn't because of Mike.

The great thing about football is that it's very hard to win football games. Even when you are a really good team it just isn't realistic to think you're going to blow everyone out every week. VA Tech struggled against Duke yesterday, and Duke lost to Richmond. It's not like our opponents aren't trying to beat us, and they believe they can, which is why they are scholarship athletes.

LU played poorly yesterday and PC played great. We made some big plays when we needed to and we got out with a win. The same W that would have come from us scoring 170 points.

I just wanted to point out how stupid you sound when your talking about taking away a kids redshirt to bench our All-American when we are two games away from our first post-season.[/quote]


First off, I'm in no way actually saying that Woodrum should lose his redshirt and start over MB. Someone asked who could take MB's place and I said Woodrum could. I was implying that Woodrum could be as valuable if not more valuable than MB is today. Part of that is because MB is injured. Another part of it is because of how insane Woodrum is. I didn't bring up how good he is because of watching him against the scout team or whatever. I saw this kid play in high-school against quality teams and he isn't a joke. He's got a canon and great vision. He could start right now and I think he would be better than MB. However, I'm not advocating that he should start right now. That would be horrible for the team in the long run.

You're correct in that throwing a football is an art. Some days you are good and others you are bad. However, the great quarterbacks are the ones who hardly ever have bad days. Woodrum almost never has more turnovers than touchdowns. MB has about 21 touchdowns and something like 15 turnovers. That's a horrible margin for someone who is supposed to be the greatest quarterback in school history. I'd be willing to bet that at least 12-15 of those touchdowns weren't because of something great MB did. I'd bet that 12-15 of those were because of Chris Summers jumping over three defenders or Pat Kelly shaking someone off or BJ Hayes just flat out, out running a defender. The success that MB has had this year is due to his receivers. You bring up JMU and Lehigh and you bring up MB's pass attempts and completion numbers. What you don't bring up is the number of times we were in the red-zone and failed to score. Or the number of times we had big third downs and didn't convert. Those are the stats that win ball games. That's why Ben Roethlisberger is one of the most underrated NFL Qb's. I hear people say all the time that the Steelers could win with anyone behind center but they fail to look at these stats. Big Ben is one of the best qb's on third downs and he almost always scores in the red-zone. Any quarterback can put up great numbers but no quarterback is great until they prove themselves when it matters.

For the record, I saw you bring up VT and Duke. I actually predicted Duke to beat VT yesterday because Logan Thomas is horrible and Duke is very underrated. So, I don't accept that analogy.

Also, Mike Brown is far from the best quarterback to ever play in the Big-South. Tyler Thigpen should ring a few bells.

The whole reason I brought this up is because while we're struggling with Presby, Stony Brook blanked Coastal. I know we killed Coastal too and GW beat them. However, Stony Brook didn't allow them to score a point. Do you know how hard that is? Giving another team a goose egg is one of the hardest things to do in football, no matter who you're playing against. It makes that game look that much harder because our offense is continuing to have problems. We continue to have stupid penalties and we keep running the same dumb plays that aren't working. Against Presby yesterday, we were held to 6 points until about a minute left in the game. We hadn't scored a touchdown against Presby. Do you honestly think the way we played yesterday will work against Stony Brook?

I'd be happy if we threw the game against VMI away. First of all, they're absolutely horrible. Secondly, if we lose it doesn't matter at all. We're not getting anything better than an eleven seed as it is, we can still win the conference as long as we beat SB. I really don't see why you wouldn't play the third string the whole time against VMI. That game is absolutely meaningless.

Okay, one last thing and then I'm doing my English Lit homework. Stop telling me we have bad fans. I think we have the best fans in the world. If you can get 11,000 people to watch a game in freezing cold weather, windy and while parents are visiting, you doing something. Furthermore, if you can get that many fans into the stands to watch us play Presbytarian, two weeks after we killed a made up rival and destroyed Kentucky Wesleyan, their doing fine. If you want our stadium to be packed every week, get out of the Big South and find some way to renew that rivalry with JMU. We have about 12,000 students on campus, I can guarantee you that come Monday, 8 of those 12 won't care whether we won or lost. Out of the 4 who do, I'd bet 3 of them have no idea who Presbytarian is. You're telling me that the 1,000 fans who might actually follow FCS football, that it's a shame the student section wasn't better yesterday? When it comes down to it, our student section is looking for what the football team can do for them. When their family, who they haven't seen in months is in town, and it's freezing and windy, oh and we're playing some nobody named the blue hose...they'd rather go do something else. Provide a better product and the students will come. It's like showing a Christian movie with a really great message but the production of the movie is like something you did for a sixth grade project. No one is forcing us to be in the Big-South, we can leave if we want to. We don't need an invite to be an FBS program. These are all excuses to stay in the worst FCS conference so we can pretend like we're having a ton of success. You want the students to come, you want the best athletes, you want to make more money, get out of the pit of doom that is the Big-South.

[bigsmooth]

bro you are out of touch with reality! we are in the big south for now so we deal with it. sure if we were in the CAA or Southern we may get a better draw from locals but our students? no, they will pull the same crap sit in their dorms and watch the team they grew up following or they will sword fight or whatever that thing is that BEE-JAY used to do. our students come to games when its warm. plain and simple.

[bradyfan]

bro you are out of touch with reality! we are in the big south for now so we deal with it. sure if we were in the CAA or Southern we may get a better draw from locals but our students? no, they will pull the same crap sit in their dorms and watch the team they grew up following or they will sword fight or whatever that thing is that BEE-JAY used to do. our students come to games when its warm. plain and simple.

Wrong. Remember when we played JMU and it was cold for September and we we're having a "monsoon?" Close to 16,000 people came out. That was before the expansion. Students come out to see us play relevant opponents. I'm not going to deal with being in the Big-South because I shouldn't have to. We could get out if we want to, it's not a jail sentence.

[aredd33]

cjsweat...we can't just up and leave the Big South. Where would we go? We have to be invited. And we DO need an invitation to be FBS. We can't just declare we are in the ACC next week. We can't just decide we are going to be independent with ND and BYU.

[jinxy]

its a social event for the students that weren't there yesterday that have been there and yesterday wasn't conducive to social events.

I will say i do think Woodrum will be a VERY VERY good Qb for us. In all honesty, this redshirt year will benefit him so much. The college game is just different and the year to learn and get stronger and get your feet under you helps so much. Look at Nick, do you think he would have played this well last year if we started him as a true frosh. Nick, Josh, Grant and Scott are important to me because those are local kids who were big time pickups for us. They are playing some of the most difficult positions to learn in football. Nick and Scott have already arrived and are playing huge dividends. There was a need on the line so Grant has saw duty and same wtih Scott last year but the truth remains if you have guys who are close to the same talent and they are veterans, redshirt the young guy so that he can the greatest he can be. Just read Brandon Robinson's comments in Langs article a few years ago about how he wished he would have had the opportunity to redshirt because he felt like he just came into his own at the end of last year and starting this year and now he has just a few games left.

[bradyfan]

cjsweat...we can't just up and leave the Big South. Where would we go? We have to be invited. And we DO need an invitation to be FBS. We can't just declare we are in the ACC next week. We can't just decide we are going to be independent with ND and BYU.

Maybe not but you could do what Mizzou is doing and initiate some conversations with some larger conferences. The SEC is way out of Mizzou's league but they had nothing to lose by initiating a conversation. Do you really think the Big-South is going to kick us out if we talked to the CAA, So-Con, Sun-Belt, or C-USA. The Big-South needs us more than we need them. If we really wanted out of the Big-South, we would be talking to other conferences rather than waiting for them.

[aredd33]

cjsweat...we can't just up and leave the Big South. Where would we go? We have to be invited. And we DO need an invitation to be FBS. We can't just declare we are in the ACC next week. We can't just decide we are going to be independent with ND and BYU.

Maybe not but you could do what Mizzou is doing and initiate some conversations with some larger conferences. The SEC is way out of Mizzou's league but they had nothing to lose by initiating a conversation. Do you really think the Big-South is going to kick us out if we talked to the CAA, So-Con, Sun-Belt, or C-USA. The Big-South needs us more than we need them. If we really wanted out of the Big-South, we would be talking to other conferences rather than waiting for them.

You don't know what Barber is or isn't doing. (If he is talking to other conferences it isn't going to be public because its not a big deal when an FCS school changes conferences.) Its not easy to change conferences you are making it seem like we can just jump around like its no big deal. A whole lot goes into it.

[bigsmooth]

exactly redd...sweat we have to be invited!!! besides our administration has always looked to move and it has been unsuccessful. quit defending the students! i guess you must be one..JMU, Appy,even ODU, a new program and all of the big name FCS schools, the students come out for the games against weaker competition. bottom line is you support the team in the cold, rain, hot weather and you come out whether you play weak schools or big name schools.

[bigsmooth]

obviously you have no clue about the history of how the southern conference and CAA do not want us. It has been tried. Maybe now we would have a better shot with our recent facility upgrades and track record of success, but we simply do not fit the Southern or CAA academic profile but that is changing too. our next move will be to FBS anyway IMO.

[NG33]

Look you guys already know how our students are like so how does this even surprise you? It was cold and windy, families were in town and we're playing Presbyterian. It was a recipe for disaster. Also, for those that DID go to the game, the first 80% of the game wasn't entertaining at all (3-0 at HALFTIME??). While the students that did stay the whole game were rewarded with a W in a suspenseful Double OT, to expect your average LU student to stick through what was in large part a snoozefest in cold,windy weather is rather naive. We've talked about this ad nauseum here. Liberty has no tradition. The majority of the students have not grown up Liberty fans, but they did grow up as Florida, UNC, VT fans, etc. One day most of our students WILL grow up as Liberty fans and the stadium will be PACKED for every home game, but that will not be for a while.

[NG33]

As far as it being parents weekend...that should boost attendance not make it go down.

Many of the parents that showed up for the guys on our hall didn't want to go to the game because of the weather. We had 10 or so families show up to our tailgate, yet only 3 stayed for the game.

[bradyfan]

exactly redd...sweat we have to be invited!!! besides our administration has always looked to move and it has been unsuccessful. quit defending the students! i guess you must be one..JMU, Appy,even ODU, a new program and all of the big name FCS schools, the students come out for the games against weaker competition. bottom line is you support the team in the cold, rain, hot weather and you come out whether you play weak schools or big name schools.

Oh my gosh, I'm telling you straight up that our students don't support the team because the team doesn't support them. You know why JMU packs their house every game? Look at who they play. Look at the show that they put on. To be honest, even as a Liberty fan, I'd rather go see JMU play New Hampshire rather than watch us play Presby. That doesn't make me a bad person or even a bad LU supporter, I just like to watch quality football. When we play Kentucky Wesleyan, Coastal, Presbytarian, Charleston Southern or Gardner Webb, our fans don't care. Back in 07 when we played Laffayett, we packed the house. Why? relevant team. When we played W&M back in 08, we packed the house again. Why? relevant team. Fans will come out when it's convenient (warm) or when they're going to see some entertainment (better opponents). Our students don't care about watching our team play when we play crappy teams.

Even if Jeff Barber was meeting with conferences about moving, it's a bad decision to not make it public. If I'm thinking about moving up to a different company when I'm the big guy at my own, I'll make it public. Why? Because that lets other companies know that I'm interested in bigger and better things. It creates competition. It makes companies compete to try and get me. The same principle applies.

[nyblue92]

How a kid performs in high school isn't indicative as to how he will perform in college. Every level you move up the talent of everyone around you moves up. I'm not saying Woodrum doesn't have a bright future, I'm jut saying you can't say that at 18 years old he is better then MB because he was good in high school.

In regards to your Big Ben analogy. Mike Brown is top 5 in the country on 3rd down conversions. He made a number of great throws on third down yesterday, one of which saved the game. Every game he has played in he has been exceptional on third down. You can't have a holding penalty that knocks you out of the red zone and then turn around and blame MB for not scoring in the red zone. Not against good football teams at least.

As far as the crowd yesterday. That was pathetic. I'm not sure what is worse, only having a handful of students at the game or the fact that they charged the field when the game was over. If the LU student body is that lowbrow then educate them on the team. LU is the only school in the country that has 3 hours a week of mandatory gathering. Educate the kids on the importance of the game at convo. Or get creative and hand out "skip convo" passes for kids who come to the games and stay for the whole thing.

In regards to SBU, they are a very good football team who will play us very tough. I'm already nervous about that game and its 3 weeks away. SBU only shut out coastal because it was a blizzard, there was only 13 yards in the air for either team. Hard to really take much away from that game other then SBU punched CCU in the mouth.

You can't take next week off. We already have a buy week going into SBU. Having two weeks off between games is enough. Taking three weeks off and you risk having a lot of rust come SBU. Not to mention that next week is senior day which is a big deal for some of these kids. And I don't think Rocco will want almost losing to Presby to be the last thing his kids remember going into SBU.

[bigsmooth]

if you would rather go watch JMU play UNH over watching your own school play...yes you are a bad fan. LU should always be your first choice.

[bradyfan]

Why should it be my first choice? Because I go to the school? I was homeschooled and we had one of the best soccer teams in our division. I even played on the team. We won third in state, yet I would have skipped one of our games to go watch a quality high-school soccer game. Why does it make me a bad fan if I just prefer to watch a quality game over my team playing some school I've never heard of? It doesn't make me a bad fan. Furthermore, if I go and freeze my tail off for three hours while watching my team play a crappy game against a crappy team, and then we win it in overtime...I have every right in the world to storm the field. Don't tell me I can't do that. Other students have no clue who Presby is, again a win is a win to them when we're playing opponents like that. So, they're going to storm the field and an LU football game isn't anything special unless we're playing someone worth noting. I don't blame our students one bit and you're an idiot who hates the school if you do.

[flamesfan30]

most fcs schools would love to have the support we had yesterday. first time most of us didnt show up since ive been here (im a senior). it was cold and NO ONE expected this to be a game. it was cold and supposed to be over in the first 10 minutes like every other conference game we've played this season. we were all wrong. there was also no mention of the game in convo, or anything. no reason at all to care about this game.

yes i know we support our team every game regardless. you cannot expect that from everyone. parents weekend means no organized student events because everyone his hanging out with their parents and doing their own thing. id venture to say that there was more of the students there than it looked like, just sitting on the other side with their parents. or it might be that some parents on the student side calmed us down a little. there was a family sitting down next to me on the front row. (front row! right by their bench!!) there were a lot of factors that combined today to make it the worst attended game in Williams stadium in 5 years.

convo skips for staying the whole game will never happen nor should it happen. i can honestly say convo has been edifying and a great use of my time this semester, except for whenever jonothan fallwell speaks. cant wait to hear francis chan in a few weeks. football does not matter, nor should it, as much as bringing people closer to Jesus.

as for rushing the field, that was the only time we have ever won a close game at home in the past 4 years. agreed not the time, nor the opponent to do it, but it was exciting. we NEVER see anything exciting when we win. if anything the endo of this game showed me that this team has gotten some mental toughness. Im proud that we FINALLY won a close game, just not who it had to come against. the first 3 and 3/4 quarters of this game embarrassed me as a fan, don't get me wrong, but im glad we finally started to play when it really mattered.

[jcmanson]

I'm done talking with the kid known as sweat. He has proved he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about and is half the LU fan most of us on here are

[Cider Jim]

I don't blame our students one bit and you're an idiot who hates the school if you do.

I'm not sure which would make a better cage match:

1. Sweat vs. Smoothie
OR
2. BJ vs. (anyone irritated at BJ's laced opinions)

[Sly Fox]

Can you feel the love in this thread?

Here is the breakdown from Chris ...

LBs key to Liberty's OT win

By: CHRIS LANG
Published: October 29, 2011

Internally, Liberty thought it had something in inside linebackers Scott Hyland and Nick Sigmon. But even the Flames coaching staff wasn’t sure what that something was. Hyland was as low as No. 3 on the depth chart at “Jack” linebacker in the spring, and Sigmon came out of spring ball just ahead of Chase Griffiths at “Mike” linebacker.

Hyland, who played at nearby LCA, made 17 tackles in limited duty as a freshman last season. Sigmon, who led Northside to a state championship as a senior, didn’t play a snap of college football until the Flames opened the 2011 season at North Carolina State.

Click Here for Full Story

And his notebook ...

Liberty-Presbyterian notebook

By: CHRIS LANG
Published: October 29, 2011

The question was posed last week at Charleston Southern, after Liberty had played a third straight game that was essentially decided by halftime.

What will happen when the Flames get locked in a four-quarter battle with someone?

Click Here for Full Story

[LUconn]

Oh my goodness sweat. You couldn't be more wrong about everything. That's how I know you're a student.

[aredd33]

I'm done talking with the kid known as sweat. He has proved he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about and is half the LU fan most of us on here are

+1
+1
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[jbock13]

cjsweat, be careful. You're quickly becoming as hated as I am around here!

Having said that, I agree with some of your points, but the ones I disagree with, you on I think your ideas are frankly absurd.

[flamesfan30]

Oh my goodness sweat. You couldn't be more wrong about everything. That's how I know you're a student.

not fair. dont paint us all as dumb when just one guy is. he might even just be trolling.

[4everfsu]

I have to say I am amused at people on here who bash students who do not attend a football game. There are more important things in life. Hey you guys who are upset at the students, get your panties out of wad.

[bradyfan]

ha, if i'm really wrong then join another conference and prove me wrong. seriously, tell me straight up that we wouldn't have better attendance if we played better opponents. are you all honestly stuck so far up your butts that you're going to blame the students for bad attendance yesterday? don't forget who the real liberty supporters are. we're the future alumni and boosters of the program. i'm one of the few people who have grown up being a liberty fan. my parents went here, their siblings went here, i have tons of cousins and friends who go/went here and i go here. liberty runs deep in my family. however, i'm not going to get on here and pretend to myself that MB played great yesterday or pretend that our students had a reason to be there yesterday. most everyone on here is the typical homer message board guy but hardly anyone on here has true perspective. liberty is a school that has great facilities, lots of money and a rapidly growing alumni. despite all this, our season has not lived up to what it was supposed to be. yesterday, MB looked horrible, rocco still made some questionable decisions and then chris summers saved the day. the point is that Jerry's goal was Liberty to be for Christians what BYU is for Mormons and ND is for Catholics. at least from an athletic stand point, we have that opportunity. however, i think we are limiting ourselves...especially on the football field. furthermore, i think it's dumb to blame the students for anything especially when you're providing them a crappy product. 12,000 students didn't get it wrong yesterday when the majority of them decided not to attend a crappy football game. if you want to get the students more involved then give them better opponents. if you can't provide that yet, then shut up and deal with it.