If you want to talk ASUN smack or ramble ad nauseum about your favorite pro or major college teams, this is the place to let it rip.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#362534
ALUmnus wrote:Whatever happened to ECU being a lock for a Big East invite? It seems like Canadian universities will start getting invites before East Carolina at this point.
ECU was never a lock, even though at one point recently they did apply.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#362544
ALUmnus wrote:Whatever happened to ECU being a lock for a Big East invite? It seems like Canadian universities will start getting invites before East Carolina at this point.
The Big East commissioner is a retard and has said that ECU doesn't have enough of a market.
By bradyfan
Registration Days Posts
#362545
Didn't the Big East cancel the meeting with the C-USA/Mountain West officials? Does anyone know if that was basically the end to that super-conference talk or if that was just so he could focus on saving WVU?
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#362548
I had faith the Big East could hold together, but denying ECU was I think the thing that AD Luck saw that WVU had to jump the ship before the iceburg sunk it. WVU was the only thing holding the Big East together (although it was pretty clear WVU was looking to leave). Finally the opportunity came and happily they're on to better lands.

That and SJ is right, the Big East commission is a moron.
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By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#362554
cjsweat wrote:Didn't the Big East cancel the meeting with the C-USA/Mountain West officials? Does anyone know if that was basically the end to that super-conference talk or if that was just so he could focus on saving WVU?
The Big East never agreed to meet. Doesn’t sound like they are interested. Which is good for us.
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By ToTheLeft
Registration Days Posts
#362570
Liberty4Life wrote:Like Villanova and Georgetown? Yeah, those schools bring NOTHING to the table. :roll:
Seton Hall, Depaul, St. John's, Providence, and to a lesser extent Marquette, don't really bring a ton to the table. A couple good TV markets, but lately none of these programs are setting the world on fire. Especially Depaul, Seton Hall, and Providence.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#362576
Liberty4Life wrote:Like Villanova and Georgetown? Yeah, those schools bring NOTHING to the table. :roll:
I stand corrected. They bring instability to the conference which is why it's constantly in flux. When BC, VT, and U left for the ACC and the other teams were added, it created the greatest basketball conference. These have been incredible years, and nothing beat watching the BIG EAST championship in MSG the saturday night before the tournament selection. But all of the non-footballs limited adding any additional football progams that would bring their full loyalty (ie BIG EAST in all sports). The conference has been begging to be torn apart, as much as I hate that. Because I really don't care for FBS football very much.
By From the class of 09
Registration Days Posts
#362583
jbock13 wrote:If the Big 12 is serious about Louisville, then you know there's a definite lack of serious leadership in the Big 12.
If you're not Texas you won't like the Big 12 leadership just an FYI for the future.
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By pbow
Registration Days Posts
#362585
BuryYourDuke wrote:If the Big 12 is serious about West Virginia, there is a lack of serious leadership. Louisville has the most profitable men's basketball program in the country, and a large share of the Kentucky and Ohio television markets, which is what realignment is all about. WVU's tv markets are small to non-existent.
I know I'm a little late here, but this is a legitimately dumb statement. I have no ill will towards the Ville, but in no way, shape, or form were they a better candidate than WVU. According to the NY Times WVU has at least 600,000 more fans, has one of the top brands in the country, and has good ratings whenever they play on tv. The whole media market thing has taken common sense completely out of college football. I realize WVU has a ton of faults and that they are not a ridiculous high-end brand like Bama, LSU, Penn State, or Texas...but WVU is a much better candidate than Louisville.

On another note, I guess I'm happy for WVU football, but I'm really really really going to miss Big East basketball. I'm just glad that they won't be in the ACC...WVU just straight up does not fit into that conference at all. I am now off to celebrate Halloween in Morgantown. Good night and good weekend to all. Hopefully LU destroys the Hose tomorrow.
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#362597
pbow wrote:I am now off to celebrate Halloween in Morgantown. Good night and good weekend to all.
Isn't it Halloween EVERY night in Morgantown? :shock:
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By alabama24
Registration Days Posts
#362601
pbow wrote: I realize WVU has a ton of faults and that they are not a ridiculous high-end brand like Bama...
Truer words have never been spoken. :football :lol:
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#362603
Perhaps its stupid to have to use common sense, but how much sense does it take to see that TV markets don't matte in regards to fans (and thus conference expansion). Here's some schools that don't have huge tv markets. You might know them.

Alabama, Florida, Virginia Tech, Kentucky, Kansas, K-State, Oklahoma, OK st. Even more can be added. Even though Florida and Florida State have the advantage of being in-state, they're not close to the more populous areas of florida.

I know you all probably agree, I just wish people used the common sense God blessed me with.
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#362616
BuryYourDuke wrote:WVU isn't Alabama or Florida. Just sayin...I know you know that.
Not arguing with you there.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#362630
First off, once WVU is formally a member of the Big XII they will find themselves with new challenges. They will be stepping up in the caliber football and upon closer inspection it could be argued that they will find a tougher hoops league as well. I have a feeling that the Mountaineers are going to find it very difficult to compete initially in the league.

As for the television markets, WVU under the best of scenarios would be the a distant second in popularity in Pittsburgh. But even if they were the team of dominant influence (and they are clearly not) that will still just be one Top-30 market along with a Top-70 (Charleston-Huntington) and a top 160 (Bluefield-Beckley). Yeah, that's a really appealing draw for television executives under the wildest of any Mountaineer's dreams.

Frankly neither WVU or Louisville were particularly appealing but the league needed a 10th and they were available.

As for the CUSA-MWC alliance, let's take a look at where things stand for 2012-2013 right now:

Mountain West Conference (10)
  • Air Force (Possibly Big East)
    Boise State (Possibly Big East)
    Colorado State
    Fresno State
    Hawaii
    Nevada
    New Mexico
    San Diego State
    UNLV
    Wyoming

Conference USA (12)
  • East Division
    ECU
    Marshall
    Memphis
    Southern Miss
    UAB
    UCF (Possibly to Big East)

    West Division
    Houston (possibly to Big East)
    Rice
    SMU (Possibly to Big East)
    Tulane
    Tulsa
    UTEP

In other words, barring anyone moving to the Big East they would likely stand at 22 members. So to get to the 24 they would likely look to add two schools to the MWC to create balance in parity. That would help none at all. The MWC has no interest in BYU after their acrimonious exit this past year to independence (something folks in Provo are probably regretting right about now). So they would likely dip into the WAC for any potential additions:

WAC
  • Idaho
    Louisiana Tech
    New Mexico State
    San Jose State
    Texas State
    Utah State
    UTSA
Frankly from the MWC's perspective, that is a fairly ugly lineup of suitors. The league has made it clear that it would prefer to stay away from Texas which would likely discount the new FBS neighbors in San Marcos & San Antonio. IMHO Utah State would be a shoe-in with the MWC picking between the leftovers and possibly FCS Montana. La Tech is the most attractive addition but would be likely off the list due to geography.

Having worked through that scenario, let's now assume that Air Force, Boise State, UH, SMU & UCF all bolt to the "Big" East. Suddenly the picture changes completely ...

At that point, the MWC essentially becomes the WAC of a decade ago with no marquee teams remaining in their 8 leftovers. They also wouldn't necessarily have any interest in expansion unless there was a gentleman's agreement for several CUSA schools such as UTEP, Tulsa & Rice to jump leagues to MWC. Frankly I don't know how that would work. UTEP would probably be OK with it since they would know longer have TCU, SMU or UH on their schedules to help them at the gate. But I'm not sure Tulsa or Rice would have any interest in getting back into those ridiculous WAC-style travel arrangements (western flights are much more expensive than eastern ones where there are more carriers & routes). So let's say UTEP and Utah State join the MWC to give them an even ten.

Now to the C-USA, they would drop to 9 schools without divisions if the schools bolt to the Big East and 8 if UTEP slides over to their more geographically appropriate MWC home. For their to be a 24-team setup, they would be looking to add five teams. I would suggest that their first invitation would be to Louisiana Tech who has repeatedly turned down their overtures in the past. Times have changed and they would have no choice but to accept the invitation. The other three would likely go to Texas schools to create a 7-team low cost southwest division from the group of North Texas, Texas State & UTSA:
  • Louisiana Tech
    North Texas
    Rice
    Texas State
    Tulane
    Tulsa
    UTSA
Now we head to the east division of C-USA where the five remaining schools would have just two slots available to bump up to 14 if a 24-team league is their goal. They would likely dip into the Sunbelt where they would have a pick of the litter. if I were a betting man then I'd suggest FIU & FAU get the call to form a new C-USA East"
  • ECU
    Florida Atlantic
    Florida International
    Marshall
    Memphis
    Southern Miss
    UAB
In other words, a 24-team CUSA-MWC alliance wouldn't help our cause much at all except possibly getting us in the mix for a Sunbelt bid. So we need the C-USA-MWC alliance to get to 32 or 36 teams to be a factor. If that were to happen the most likely scenario would be for Conference USA to go back to its roots for a 3-division or possibly 4-division setup. The two divisions above would likely add another member or see a shift. The most likely scenario would keep MWC at 10 or 12 (add in NM State & San Jose State for the sake of argument) and have C-USA go to three 8-team divisions. Based on the pool of schools I list before, here is a possible scenario:

East Division (2):
  • ECU
    Marshall

South Division (5):
  • Florida Atlantic
    Florida International
    Memphis
    Southern Miss
    UAB

Southwest Division (7):
  • Louisiana Tech
    North Texas
    Rice
    Texas State
    Tulane
    Tulsa
    UTSA
In other words, they would be looking primarily in the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast regions for teams. Let's now take a look at who might be left for them to consider in those areas:

Sunbelt leftovers:
  • Arkansas State
    Louisiana-Lafayette
    Louisiana-Monroe
    Middle Tennessee State
    South Alabama
    Troy
    Western Kentucky
FCS Schools Reportedly At Least Somewhat Interested in Moving Up:
  • Appalachian State
    Charlotte
    Delaware
    Georgia Southern
    Georgia State
    Jacksonville State
    JMU
    Liberty
    ODU
Then it all comes down to how the C-USA powers that be decide they value the schools. At first glance, the three schools that stand out off that list are Louisiana-Lafayette, Appy & Charlotte. The former would fit in nicely with the Southwest division while the other two make an easy fit into either of the two divisions. So we would likely be battling the rest for one of the handful of spots. One thing is for certain is that we would definitely be in the mix. Coveting the East Coast television markets I would suggest that the east division would likely be built on FCS move-ups while the South division would target Sunbelt schools. And yes, I am aware of the Sunbelt buyouts. But if a school wants to keep FBS football and not drop down to FCS, it will be time to fish or cut bait.
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By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#362631
Sly, that's a 1,147 word post! That's got to be some kind of Flame Fans record, right? Thanks for the thorough analysis. :clapping
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#362634
Sly, with all due respect my friend, who cares about the TV markets. WVU have fans, most teams don't. which more than makes up for TV markets. They've got more fans than Iowa State. Way more.

Another point to note is that most WVU fans don't live in WV anymore. They used to, but don't anymore. They're isolated everywhere.

I do agree with you however that WVU may struggle in the first few years.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#362636
Sly Fox wrote:First off, once WVU is formally a member of the Big XII they will find themselves with new challenges. They will be stepping up in the caliber football and upon closer inspection it could be argued that they will find a tougher hoops league as well.
I suppose anything could be argued. I mean we still have that group that argues the earth is flat, right? And that's exactly who you'd need to find.
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By pbow
Registration Days Posts
#362639
LUconn wrote:
Sly Fox wrote:First off, once WVU is formally a member of the Big XII they will find themselves with new challenges. They will be stepping up in the caliber football and upon closer inspection it could be argued that they will find a tougher hoops league as well.
I suppose anything could be argued. I mean we still have that group that argues the earth is flat, right? And that's exactly who you'd need to find.
The Big 12 is a very good hoops league, but it is not the Big East. Well I guess I should say the former Big East.
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By pbow
Registration Days Posts
#362640
Cider Jim wrote:
pbow wrote:I am now off to celebrate Halloween in Morgantown. Good night and good weekend to all.
Isn't it Halloween EVERY night in Morgantown? :shock:
Halloween in Morgantown is a magical time haha. If you want something really scary on a nightly basis you should check out Huntington...the only thing not scary in Huntington is "the Joan." Absolutely no one is afraid to play there.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#362642
I'm just referencing how the Big XII will look in hoops after the transitions and the new Big East lineup. I believe it is a very fair comparison that could tip toward the Big XII with the recent Big East losses and who they have likely coming in. SMU & UCF are dog programs and UH is only relevant once every few years.

And nice job in comparing WVU Fan to Iowa State Fan. Outside of Baylor, it is the only school in the conference that has a marginalized small fanbase. Dare to dream, 'Eer fans. And to answer your question about who cares about TV markets ... the TV networks who are driving this realignment with their contracts. To think otherwise would be rather pollyannic for a school's fanbase. Facts are facts.
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#362648
I understand, I just honestly think if you're not from WV then you can't see how it is. But then again, my bias will seem to marginalize what I say.

So we shall agree to disagree sly :D

And yeah, I knew Iowa State had the smallest, but still it proves my point even using your points.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#362652
Trust me, I may not be from West Virginia but I grew up surrounded by many of their fans. They are certainly cut from a different cloth similar to Arkansas fans.

Sorry, SumItUp. I didn't mean to drag the Hogs into this but I had no choice.
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#362873
It was the networks who chose West Virginia from among all the options available to the Big XIi. That should end everyone's quibbling over traditional geographic TV markets. While important, they are no longer vital to a program's TV value.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#362889
Sly Fox wrote:I'm just referencing how the Big XII will look in hoops after the transitions and the new Big East lineup. I believe it is a very fair comparison that could tip toward the Big XII with the recent Big East losses and who they have likely coming in.
I'll agree with that, but I'll say that it will have the opposite affect.If the transition from BE to ACC is similar, I think we'll see WVU dominate before they settle in the middle of the conference. Unless Huggybear gets in trouble for his Beasley antics.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#362892
I had heard the Beasley revelations might have been a reason why the league held up a bit on offering the formal invitation.

I guess I should have saved myself some time by just handling the WVU issue and not going into all the detail in regard to realignment possibilities.

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