[Purple Haize]

Nauvoo & Carthage,

don't even get me started on these silly places.

i used to call on a hardware store in carthage back in the day.

he said he always has mormons who come to see the jail he was supposedly killed in (it wasn't the jail in carthage, it was in one up the road but the mormons won't admit it for no reason in particular) he said they go "where is the carthage jail?" and he responds "YOU MEAN THE PLACE THEY KILLED THAT CROOK?"

he was a funny angry man.

the temple is navoo is pretty amazing. but i'm not allowed int here

You do realize that the "holy places" where Christ was crucified and His tomb aren't the ACTUAL places either right? And there are more then a few places that don't allow Christian pilgrims onto their "sacred Christian ground"?
You could also say the chasm between a Pentacostal and a Methodist is huge. What about simple Protestants and Catholics? Baptists and Jews?
Since he is a Mormon IMO the only questions that need to be vetted about his faith are: Views on Polygymy. Independent Nation aspirations of Deseret (same could be asked about Texas to Perry). If Romney recognizes, which I am sure he does, that Utah and the Mormon Church are subject to the law of the United States, what is the big deal?
Are you afraid he is going to be "duped" into converting to Islam and want to overthrow the US Govt and start his own Mormon state? That he is gullible to believe that Iran REALLY wants us to just be pals?
Again, I just don't see how this is a hindrance to someone running for President. Artist in Residence at Thomas Road Baptist Church SURE but not President

[LUconn]

Again, I just don't see how this is a hindrance to someone running for President. Artist in Residence at Thomas Road Baptist Church Graduation commencement speaker at Liberty University SURE but not President

doh!

[RubberMallet]

lol. the difference between christianity and mormonism is so much larger than any christian denomination vs any other christian denomination. the entire theology different. you obviously have no idea. thats alright though, most don't. IT SAYS JESUS THE NAME OF THEIR CHURCH DURRRR

even if he was a born again christian i wouldn't vote for him because his policies don't jive with me fiscally and socially. but i dont' even have to evaluate that. he's part of a silly cult and thats enough for me to not to want to have anything to do with him. Like i said, either he's just going with the flow of his religion, taking advantage of it (a business man benny hinn), hes devoid of the ability to think critically and/or unware of the entity that he's associated with. neither one i would like to call leader.

your comparisons are humorous, i hope you don't stop.

[Purple Haize]

lol. the difference between christianity and mormonism is so much larger than any christian denomination vs any other christian denomination. the entire theology different. you obviously have no idea. thats alright though, most don't. IT SAYS JESUS THE NAME OF THEIR CHURCH DURRRR

even if he was a born again christian i wouldn't vote for him because his policies don't jive with me fiscally and socially. but i dont' even have to evaluate that. he's part of a silly cult and thats enough for me to not to want to have anything to do with him. Like i said, either he's just going with the flow of his religion, taking advantage of it (a business man benny hinn), hes devoid of the ability to think critically and/or unware of the entity that he's associated with. neither one i would like to call leader.

your comparisons are humorous, i hope you don't stop.

Since you don't know my background I will take your statement with a grain of salt. If you read my posts you see that at no time did I defend their theology. I did defend their lifestyle as being very similar to that of " regular" Christians. And you might want to re read some books on religious history. Denominations have had a very colorful past in how they deal with those who disagree. Plus, that whole Reformation thing can be a tad bit touchy, especially between a Catholic and a Lutheran.
We differ on two points. The first being that you won't even consider him because of his religion. I emphasize policy first. If you don't agree with a candidates policy, then that is fine and one can have a debate on that. To me a candidates policy means more to me then their theology.
Secondly, how in the world can you think a comparison between Romney and Benny Hinn is in any way valid? I have never heard Romney preach to the masses about his Mormonism. Conversely I am not aware of Mr Hinn running for political office, either here or in South Africa. One is a politician, the other is a preacher. I would not like to see Romney in a role of televangelist nor Mr Hinn run for office.
And you say MY comparisons are humorous

[RubberMallet]

your lulz are almost as good as jbock's.

its pretty simple. and for the 3rd maybe 4th time.

if you are a mormon i believe :

a) you are intellectually inept.
b) you have done no real research on the belief system to which you have attached yourself too

a and b may go hand in hand at times
or
c) you don't care, but being a mormon allows you to make money (my f-i-l is on the city board with a handful of these guys) thus the comparison to benny hinn (HEY IM A CHRISTIAN SEND ME MONEY/DO BUSINESS WITH ME) not real difficult here.

none of these qualities regardless of anything else are anything i want in a president.

now i may be completely wrong in my viewpoint but i haven't met a mormon who's proven it wrong. and i've met many.

you inability to grasp this is quite hilarious. like i said, please don't stop.

[jbock13]

Just FYI, constantly taunting me won't get you anywhere RM.

[RubberMallet]

i'm not looking to get anywhere. sorry to disappoint.

[Purple Haize]

I grasp it Rubber, I just disagree with it. I think that Mitt Romney has proven himself to be more then intellectually capable. I can't speak to what conclusions were drawn from his research into Mormonism but I do know there are different 'denominations' within Mormonism. And also, I don't care. I do wonder where you would draw the line though on your religious exclusion from the Presidency? Would it aaply to Catholics, Agnostics or Jews ? I also shy away from calling anyone's faith silly because the same charge is often levied against Protestants. Six day creation? Really?

As for your FIL, I don't see a similarity between a City Board and a Televangelist. The only similarity you seem to make is that they both receive money. Of course no one is forcing anyone to send money to Benny Hinn. Unless you are accusing the city board of embezzlement then that would be a different story

We disagree obviously. I have had many positive interactions with people of all faiths, and maybe I have a larger pool from which to sample. So if it maes you feel better to make snide comments about other posters, then good on you. Besides, Im not sure JBock would want to be associated with me in anyway!

[RubberMallet]

he certainly hasn't proven that to me. in regards to religion or elsewhere. i'm really not surprised that you've been duped. what does different denominations of mormonism have to do with anything?

so i shouldn't be critical of the core beliefs a person has, the core beliefs that should direct the important decisions in ones life, because someone might think my core beliefs are stupid? really? what kind of namby pampy crap is that? hilarious.

once again your inability at grasping concepts and comparisons isn't surprising. i don't know how much more explaining will be needed to help you understand this. you see it everywhere. the homeless guy that says god bless. he's hoping he pulls the heart strings of a believer along the way so he can make an extra buck. the car sales guy who enjoys the church he goes to soley because its furtile grounds for making money. all benny hinn type peopel in their respective profession. once again, not hard to grasp for most people.

if i say i have had many positive interactions with lots of people from different backgrounds as well, then what happens? who cares? none of this makes me feel happy. i would say generally i feel indifferent but if i had to pick a feeling to feel i would say it would probably be sadness.

[thepostman]

If Romney is the candidate the republican party chooses then they are in bad shape. He screams slimy politician.

And his religion has nothing to do with that opinion...

With that said how has a thread about Herman Cain turned into a debate about Mormonism??

[RubberMallet]

well i'm kind of trolling a little bit...my bad.

but in the end does the topic change really surprise you?

[Purple Haize]

he certainly hasn't proven that to me. in regards to religion or elsewhere. i'm really not surprised that you've been duped. what does different denominations of mormonism have to do with anything?

so i shouldn't be critical of the core beliefs a person has, the core beliefs that should direct the important decisions in ones life, because someone might think my core beliefs are stupid? really? what kind of namby pampy crap is that? hilarious.

once again your inability at grasping concepts and comparisons isn't surprising. i don't know how much more explaining will be needed to help you understand this. you see it everywhere. the homeless guy that says god bless. he's hoping he pulls the heart strings of a believer along the way so he can make an extra buck. the car sales guy who enjoys the church he goes to soley because its furtile grounds for making money. all benny hinn type peopel in their respective profession. once again, not hard to grasp for most people.

if i say i have had many positive interactions with lots of people from different backgrounds as well, then what happens? who cares? none of this makes me feel happy. i would say generally i feel indifferent but if i had to pick a feeling to feel i would say it would probably be sadness.

You are right. I do have an inability to grasp small minded and bigoted concepts and comparisons. And I hope I never learn how.

[RubberMallet]

you ARE SO open minded THAT is SO awesome. The world approves!

[alabama24]

I still like Romney for what its worth.

I have never considered voting for a third party candidate. If Romney wins the nomination, I will be voting further down the list on my voter card.

If a mormon candidate was honest about his faith, I would consider voting for him. Romney's not honest.

How is he not honest about his faith? Just because he doesn't prosthelitize every opportunity doesn't make him "fake".
I am curious why you would help Obama win if Romney gets the nomination. Secondly, what difference does it make whether he is Mormon, Baptist or Catholic. We are talking about politics, not theology.

Purple Haize - I didn't say that I would not vote for him because he was Mormon, I said I would not vote for him because he was dishonest about his faith. Let me explain.

There has been a lot of flack over some preacher calling mormonism a "cult." I can understand why mormons would be insulted by this, because "cult" has so much baggage with it. If the term "cult" is to be avoided, then it must be agreed that Mormonism is a separate and emerging world religion. Romney & his defenders will say "sure he is a Christian; Mormon's are Christians. " They will point to the church's official name as proof: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints." This is, of course, as slick a PR campaign as you will see anywhere. It is designed to mislead people.

Here are some things that the Mormon Church believes:

1. God the Father is a created being and was once a man.
2. God has multiple wives and we are their children.
3. As humans, we were pre-existant awaiting bodies. Large families are needed to free our brothers and sisters.
4. Jesus and Satan are brothers.
5. "People of color" are the descendants of cain. Their dark color is a mark to let us know.
6. Everyone goes to heaven. Our actions determine which place we receive. There is no hell.
7. The goal of humanity is to become "gods" like our brother and father.

You are prime example why I would not vote for Romney. A Romney presidency would legitimize his faith, especially with the dishonesty about the nature of his faith. This is unacceptable to me. I would be more open to (another) Mormon being president if he/she were HONEST about the nature of their faith.

Lastly, you wrote: "We are talking about politics, not theology." That is why I am willing to let Obama win reelection. It is ONLY politics. Theology has eternal consequences.

For what its worth, the Mormons I have known have been some of the nicest, kindest people I have known. They often put "Christians" to shame.

For more information, visit: http://mormoninfo.org/

[flamesfan30]

mark driscoll had a really good long article on something similar, whether or not mormonism is a cult.

http://pastormark.tv/2011/10/18/is-mormonism-a-cult

and to get us back on topic has anyone else seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhm-22Q0 ... r_embedded

[jbock13]

Lastly, you wrote: "We are talking about politics, not theology." That is why I am willing to let Obama win reelection. It is ONLY politics. Theology has eternal consequences.

Yeah, screw the country, I hate those Mormons SO MUCH.

Alabama, I usually like your comments but I find this to me personally, absolutely inexplicable. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but the fact that you truly believe that it's okay to vote for 4 more years of this destruction just because you disagree with mormonism makes no sense to me. Is Obama really even a Christian by your definition? Look at where he went to church... that's mainstream Christianity?

Disclaimer: I do not believe Obama is a Muslim.

I hope you don't take this as a personal attack, as I don't mean it to be taken that way, I just don't get it.

[LUconn]

Are you saying this country is more important than, in his opinion, essentially legitimizing a cult? Once again, I will point out that you are WAY too wrapped up in politics to be able to see the eternal significance.

[From the class of 09]

Lastly, you wrote: "We are talking about politics, not theology." That is why I am willing to let Obama win reelection. It is ONLY politics. Theology has eternal consequences.

Yeah, screw the country, I hate those Mormons SO MUCH.

Alabama, I usually like your comments but I find this to me personally, absolutely inexplicable. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but the fact that you truly believe that it's okay to vote for 4 more years of this destruction just because you disagree with mormonism makes no sense to me. Is Obama really even a Christian by your definition? Look at where he went to church... that's mainstream Christianity?

Disclaimer: I do not believe Obama is a Muslim.

I hope you don't take this as a personal attack, as I don't mean it to be taken that way, I just don't get it.

I could be wrong but I believe his general premise comes from Luke 9:25.

On that note I believe he is saying that having mormon as president isn't good for promoting true salvation where Obama is kinda a wash when it comes to the whole salvation thing. I'm not sure I agree but that's his arguement.

On another note, so it's all Obama's fault huh?

[From the class of 09]

Are you saying this country is more important than, in his opinion, essentially legitimizing a cult? Once again, I will point out that you are WAY too wrapped up in politics to be able to see the eternal significance.

or this +1

[jbock13]

I get it, but what's next? Mitt likes eating cheeseburgers, and I don't, so that's a good reason to vote against him?

What if the Republican is an agnostic, and the Democrat a Jew? Do I as a Christian just sit home and not vote? Just trying to understand here.

[alabama24]

Yeah, screw the country, I hate those Mormons SO MUCH.

Who said I hate mormons? (I don't) When did I say "screw the country?" (I didn't).

Is Obama really even a Christian by your definition?

I never commented on the religious faith of the president. It seems to me like he is more interested in what is politically advantageous, but I don't care to comment further on his "eternal destiny."

you truly believe that it's okay to vote for 4 more years of this destruction

Who said I was going to vote for Obama? I am hoping for a good conservative candidate. Also, I didn't say that I would never vote for a mormon, but that he/she would need to be honest and upfront about their faith. Romney is not. He continues to insist that he is a "Christian" and downplays any differences. In essence, he insists that mormonism is just another denomination. What he doesn't tell you is that The Church Of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints claims that all other churches are apostate.

Jbock13 - Here is what you need to know about me in relationship to politics: I am conservative; I founded a chapter of the Young Republicans in my high school; I was publicly insulted by a substitute teacher because of my beliefs.* Personally, I think that the US is "headed in the wrong direction." Despite my political beliefs, however, my faith considerations come first. I am afraid that most "religious right" people are more concerned about ideological political beliefs over theological ones. To make matters worse, those views may not be in line with biblical ones. Jesus didn't die for the flat tax.


* Side Story: In high school, a substitute teacher who was also the local campaign rep for Bill Clinton against Bush, said that her father sent her brother to canada to avoid the draft. The father had been in WWII and saw the horrors of war and didn't want that for his son (her brother). In front of the class I asked her some clarification questions:

Me: "Your dad sent your brother to Canada?"
Her: "Yes"
Me: "Because he knew the horrors of war?"
Her: "Yes"
Me: "Then doesn't it make sense that President Bush, who served in war, would be less likely to send soldiers to war than Bill Clinton who did not serve?"

She was VERY upset with me. In a later setting, behind my back and in front of other HS students, she berated me.

[RubberMallet]

I get it, but what's next? Mitt likes eating cheeseburgers, and I don't, so that's a good reason to vote against him?

What if the Republican is an agnostic, and the Democrat a Jew? Do I as a Christian just sit home and not vote? Just trying to understand here.

literally lol.

[alabama24]

On that note I believe he is saying that having mormon as president isn't good for promoting true salvation where Obama is kinda a wash when it comes to the whole salvation thing. I'm not sure I agree but that's his arguement.

That's not really my argument. As I said before, if a mormon candidate were honest about his/her faith, I would be open to voting for them. By the way, even without the mormon issue, I would never be an enthusiastic Romney supporter. He seems to me to be concerned more about his own political aspirations than a true believer.

[jbock13]

Alabama, you said "That is why I am willing to let Obama win reelection. It is ONLY politics. Theology has eternal consequences."

So that's where I got my belief that you would vote for Obama again, because Romney is a mormon.

Anyways, just to everyone, I apologize if it seems like I'm just out to argue about everything. It's truly not my purpose. I like to share my views, as well as to learn hear from other people regarding their points of view. It is not my intention to fight anyone who disagrees with me. But I know it often comes out that way and it's something I'm working on. So, I apologize to those of you who get irritated at me.

[NG33]

He continues to insist that he is a "Christian" and downplays any differences. In essence, he insists that mormonism is just another denomination. What he doesn't tell you is that The Church Of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints claims that all other churches are apostate.

While you make many good points Alabama, all I will say is that many Mormon's view themselves as Christians. I actually know people that go to BYU, and they will tell you right off the bat they view themselves as Christians too. We've had a few conversations with them over it and I can't say that any of them were trying to be slick or dishonest.