[JK37]

You're from the south, as am I. In our culture, drinking as a Christian is bad. In the north, especially the northeast (with many Christians being former Catholics), and many, many foreign countries, the culture is different. To an Italian family in the northeast, if you don't have a glass of wine with dinner at their house then it is offensive.

True story: A guy goes oversees to Italy to be a missionary. While there, trying to reach people and tell them about Jesus, he was invited to dinner by a non-church going family that was interested in hearing about what he was doing. It was a chance to share the Gospel with them. At dinner the family served wine. In that culture, refusing part of the meal is like a slap in the face. Should he have drank the glass of wine with dinner or should he have refused it?

Many of you would say that this is a loaded question or that this was a one-time occurrence. However, outside of the Bible Belt, variations of this situation happen all of the time.

I enjoy hearing other perspectives, and that's one I have not heard before. It's intriguing!

This also adds elements to the Stumblingblock side of the issue. In South Carolina, drinking may be a stumblingblock to my Christian brother; but to my Italian friend on a foreign tour, not accepting the glass of wine might cause him to stumble. Interesting...

Devil's advocate: is the cultural acceptance or encouragement of an activity enough to make it acceptable in the eyes of God?

[BigAl57]

However, outside of the Bible Belt, variations of this situation happen all of the time.

SJ - It's happening more now in the Bible Belt more and more with all the transplants.

[Kolzilla41]

You're from the south, as am I. In our culture, drinking as a Christian is bad. In the north, especially the northeast (with many Christians being former Catholics), and many, many foreign countries, the culture is different. To an Italian family in the northeast, if you don't have a glass of wine with dinner at their house then it is offensive.

True story: A guy goes oversees to Italy to be a missionary. While there, trying to reach people and tell them about Jesus, he was invited to dinner by a non-church going family that was interested in hearing about what he was doing. It was a chance to share the Gospel with them. At dinner the family served wine. In that culture, refusing part of the meal is like a slap in the face. Should he have drank the glass of wine with dinner or should he have refused it?

Many of you would say that this is a loaded question or that this was a one-time occurrence. However, outside of the Bible Belt, variations of this situation happen all of the time.

I enjoy hearing other perspectives, and that's one I have not heard before. It's intriguing!

Devil's advocate: is the cultural acceptance or encouragement of an activity enough to make it acceptable in the eyes of God?

I really cannot think of too many cultural acceptances that are specifically spoken against in the Bible.

[jcmanson]

Devil's advocate: is the cultural acceptance or encouragement of an activity enough to make it acceptable in the eyes of God?

No. God doesn't change. He hasn't changed. He won't change.

[R i]

I've yet to hear someone make a compelling argument for why alcohol consumption is a good thing.
Why do so many defend their right to do something so vehemently, when they've yet to successfully inform me of any benefit(s) of alcohol consumption?

I am going to sound like a Ninny. But I like the buzz. Loosened feeling. Controlable of course.

[JK37]

I really cannot think of too many cultural acceptances that are specifically spoken against in the Bible.

I am an employee of an ultra-liberal public university in the South (or as SJ put it, the "Bible Belt). I live in the tiny blue corner of my state, if you get my drift. Just like you, I couldn't think of very many at first, either. But here are a few that are constantly brought to my attention, now that I've identified myself as willing to take on the debate:

Slavery (acceptable and arguably endorsed in Bible, condemned by American society today).

Genocide (how do you describe Israel's extermination of the people of Canaan when they took over the land?).

Homosexuality (certainly no question it's condemned in the Bible, but becoming more and more culturally acceptable today, if not completely already).

While we're on the topic, Sexual Promiscuity/Adultery (Bill Clinton?)

Gossip (talk shows?)
**********

So you see, Bob, many sins have become culturally acceptable. And while the Bible is admittedly less clear on the issue of alcohol consumption, you can hopefully understand now why the cultural acceptance of a behavior is not solely enough for me to endorse it.

[JK37]

I am going to sound like a Ninny. But I like the buzz. Loosened feeling. Controlable of course.

You're just being funny, right?

[R i]

It may not be a compelling arguement. But in all seriousness. Its why I do. Just trying to be honest.

[JK37]

(Sorry for the multiple posts)

Another thought: if we defend our actions as Christians on the basis of not wanting to offend a culture (any culture!) we're trying to reach with the Gospel, where do we draw the line?

[jcmanson]

The Gospel offends

[jbock13]

I have to disagree with you on a minor point SJ. In the South, and god knows especially as a southern baptist, people are always popping beers and watching an NFL game after church. And many pastors too. At least that's been my experience.

(Disclaimer: as I've said before I do not drink)

[NG33]

I have to disagree with you on a minor point SJ. In the South, and god knows especially as a southern baptist, people are always popping beers and watching an NFL game after church. And many pastors too. At least that's been my experience.

(Disclaimer: as I've said before I do not drink)

While that might be the case, as I quickly found out there are a TON more people that are against any consumption of alcohol in the South versus the North

[R i]

i dont have any other good arguments. I enjoy it. I dont think it is wrong. I dont drink energy drinks. They are bad for you.

[NG33]

(Sorry for the multiple posts)

Another thought: if we defend our actions as Christians on the basis of not wanting to offend a culture (any culture!) we're trying to reach with the Gospel, where do we draw the line?

I think you draw the line at if it causes you to sin against God. To use alcohol as an example. Drinking alcohol isn't necessarily a sin. However, if the culture was to get completely wasted then I think that's where you draw the line.

[jbock13]

I have to disagree with you on a minor point SJ. In the South, and god knows especially as a southern baptist, people are always popping beers and watching an NFL game after church. And many pastors too. At least that's been my experience.

(Disclaimer: as I've said before I do not drink)

While that might be the case, as I quickly found out there are a TON more people that are against any consumption of alcohol in the South versus the North

I can agree with that.

[Purple Haize]

I have been to several away games over the past few years. On the rare occassion I see a Liberty shirt, and a beer/ mikes hard lemonade, what have you. This is not a question of is it okay to drink. I am interested in your opinion , Is drinking at away games wearing a Liberty shirt frowned upon by the majority of you?

No. Even if it was a Jeremiah Weed I would be ok with it. Now if it was a Zima.................

[LUnpretty11]

The Gospel offends

Bingo.

For me it comes down to this... Don't do anything that gives off the appearance of evil. The Bible so blatantly speaks out against drunkenness and the foolishness of getting drunk. So why would you want to be a part of something that toes that line? Another thing is... How close are you willing to toe the line before you've crossed it? I believe that we've already crossed the line when we start to flirt with it. You've begun a procession of desensitizing yourself to what is morally right. This attitude of "What can I do until it's wrong or sinful" is so horribly unbiblical. Living a Christian life isn't about what can we get away with doing. If Jesus Christ is your Savior and Lord of your life, then we should be doing everything in our power to make every decision with the focus of glorifying Him.

I call on anyone who says they pop open a cold one in the name of Jesus Christ.

SJ, for your story about the missionary to Italy... it would have been completely understandable for him to explain why he cannot/will not have wine with his meal in a respectful way. Obviously there would have to be time for him to go into a full explanation and if done properly I don't see why the Italian people wouldn't be understanding of that.

I know my stance isn't popular... but this is my .02. I'm not pointing fingers, condemning, or judging.

As far as tailgating goes... You are representing Liberty, which (whether you agree or not) represents Christ. You make Liberty look bad, you make Christians look bad. Just one more reasons for people to call Christians hypocrites.... (fyi... everyone is a hypocrite).

Anyway, continue....

[jbock13]

The Gospel offends

Bingo.

For me it comes down to this... Don't do anything that gives off the appearance of evil. The Bible so blatantly speaks out against drunkenness and the foolishness of getting drunk. So why would you want to be a part of something that toes that line? Another thing is... How close are you willing to toe the line before you've crossed it? I believe that we've already crossed the line when we start to flirt with it. You've begun a procession of desensitizing yourself to what is morally right. This attitude of "What can I do until it's wrong or sinful" is so horribly unbiblical. Living a Christian life isn't about what can we get away with doing. If Jesus Christ is your Savior and Lord of your life, then we should be doing everything in our power to make every decision with the focus of glorifying Him.

I call on anyone who says the pop open a cold one in the name of Jesus Christ.

SJ, for your story about the missionary to Italy... it would have been completely understandable for him to explain why he cannot/will not have wine with his meal in a respectful way. Obviously there would have to be time for him to go into a full explanation and if done properly I don't see why the Italian people wouldn't be understanding of that.

I know my stance isn't popular... but this is my .02. I'm not pointing fingers, condemning, or judging.

As far as tailgating goes... You are representing Liberty, which (whether you agree or not) represents Christ. You make Liberty look bad, you make Christians look bad. Just one more reasons for people to call Christians hypocrites.... (fyi... everyone is a hypocrite).

Anyway, continue....

+1

[Purple Haize]

Jesus did it...done.

So if he were here today, would he drink? If so, tell me why you know so.
For the record, I am of the opinion that it is a personal decision. I don't for personal reasons and convictions. The statement that Jesus did it so "done" sounds like an excuse rather than a good reason. Again, give me a good reason for a Christian to drink. Please? I am not trying to be smart or anything. I am just tired of Christians trying to live like the world and passing it off. Why can't we be different and act different while we at it?
And to keep this on topic, like I said it's a personal decision. But, out of respect for our school, I think it should be avoided while wearing the school colors.

That is a slippery slope. IF you are singling out alcohol b/c it is "bad for you" then you have to take the argument to:
Smoking (Pretty easy)
Eating poorly
Not exercising
Not going to the doctor
etc.
The argument could then be drawn out to other avenues, my personal favorite being athletics:
Why should a Christian participate in athletics? It is bad for you. Concussions, torn ligaments, broken bones, pulled musles. Is that anyway to treat the "Temple of God'?
The best argument against drinking comes from Kingpin when Woody Harrelson was pretending to be Amish
"You know what the Bible says about that - fill in the blank - "
"No, what?"
"Its against it".

[SuperJon]

The Gospel offends

The Gospel doesn't say you can't drink.

[LUnpretty11]

That is a slippery slope. IF you are singling out alcohol b/c it is "bad for you" then you have to take the argument to:
Smoking (Pretty easy)
Eating poorly
Not exercising
Not going to the doctor
etc.
The argument could then be drawn out to other avenues, my personal favorite being athletics:
Why should a Christian participate in athletics? It is bad for you. Concussions, torn ligaments, broken bones, pulled musles. Is that anyway to treat the "Temple of God'?
The best argument against drinking comes from Kingpin when Woody Harrelson was pretending to be Amish
"You know what the Bible says about that - fill in the blank - "
"No, what?"
"Its against it".

This too is a slippery slope.
I know what you're saying... buut
Getting injured in sports is not intentional. You are not walking onto the field and saying "Hey, let's blow out my ACL today. Who cares if God created that, I want to tear it!" You don't choose to get injured. It's uncontrollable. Not a conscious decision.

And I do believe that not eating right, not exercising and not taking care of your body overall is wrong.

[bigsmooth]

if you want to drink while tailgating with an LU shirt on, keep it in a solo cup, and do not get drunk or act like a fool. i know plenty of solid Christians, many staff members who drink, but are respectful.

[NG33]

As far as tailgating goes... You are representing Liberty, which (whether you agree or not) represents Christ. You make Liberty look bad, you make Christians look bad. Just one more reasons for people to call Christians hypocrites.... (fyi... everyone is a hypocrite).

Now I'm not advocating drinking at LU tailgates, BUT you realize that the majority of those people that call us hypocrites over us drinking a beer are those that are probably not very keen on Christianity anyway.

Alcohol, just like ALMOST EVERYTHING in our lives, IMO is alright in moderation.

I really don't think any one is going to convince the other side that they are wrong.

[thepostman]

if you want to drink while tailgating with an LU shirt on, keep it in a solo cup, and do not get drunk or act like a fool. i know plenty of solid Christians, many staff members who drink, but are respectful.

.....or brag about it the next day. There were a couple people who would brag about it and laugh about the "red solo cup" thinking it made them much more impressive then they really were.

I don't think people should drink on campus out of respect for the rules on campus and the Bible is pretty clear about following rules as long as they don't go against His word.

I am glad this conversation hasn't gotten hostile, but I just don't get the anti-drinking all together stance. I never have and I never will.

This coming from someone who hasn't had a drink since their honeymoon over 4 years ago.

Its ok though, I don't have to get it.

[jcmanson]

The Gospel offends

The Gospel doesn't say you can't drink.

Never said it did. I said this in response to:

Another thought: if we defend our actions as Christians on the basis of not wanting to offend a culture (any culture!) we're trying to reach with the Gospel, where do we draw the line?