[Purple Haize]

Go back and look at my posts never have I advocated for breaking the law and I would not. Why can't you accept a skilled compliance office could find a way to save the Wrestling team. Why is that so hard to accept?
You state I'm illogical or flawed but you say for "argument sake" I'm right. Why can't there be honest CPA's that do better than less skilled or less knowledgable CPA's. Why does it have to be your way or illegal?

I said "for argments sake you are right" about your GE comment
There are honest CPA's who do better then "average" CPA's, that is true in about every profession. (EOD, not so much, b/c well.....if you arent good you dont last very long)
The reason I say your argement is flawed is b/c you are attacking the wrong people. It is NOT a complaince competency issue. The rules are there and have to be followed. YOUR argument should be with the $$$ people. There IS a way to keep wrestling. If LU had the money to mantain a wrestling progam and all of the requisite and offsetting women's sports, we would have a wrestling program. THAT is how we both follow the law AND keep a wrestling team. Your only OTHER option would be to eliminate another men's sport. And they have put just as much hard work and dedication into THEIR sport as the wrestlers have theirs. Unfortunately, wrestling does not enjoy the advantages (i.e. Conference affiliation) as the other sports.
As for wrestling background, what does that matter? Are you now going to claim, "Its a wrestling thing, you wouldn't understand"? Really? Yes, I have wrestling in my past and trust me, I have probably forgotten more about the History of Sport then most on this board have ever learned.
If you take ANYTHING away, remember this is not about the SPORT of wrestling. People like and respect it. This IS about money and federal compliance.

[Purple Haize]

there are gay people at Liberty?? who knew!!?? haha

Two Words: Big Smooth

Also, and I can't confirm this, maybe SCOOP can help, but apparently there is gambling at Ricks!

[olldflame]

First MacBeth/Faulkner and now Casablanca. You are really giving us a dose of culture Purple.

[Purple Haize]

First MacBeth/Faulkner and now Casablanca. You are really giving us a dose of culture Purple.

What can I say? I am a fount of worthless knowledge! When dealing with athletics is it important to remember that all the world is indeed a stage and we are mearly players performers and portrayers. Each another's audience outside this gilded cage.

[BJWilliams]

As You Like It?

[L Fan]

Go back and look at my posts never have I advocated for breaking the law and I would not. Why can't you accept a skilled compliance office could find a way to save the Wrestling team. Why is that so hard to accept?
You state I'm illogical or flawed but you say for "argument sake" I'm right. Why can't there be honest CPA's that do better than less skilled or less knowledgable CPA's. Why does it have to be your way or illegal?

I said "for argments sake you are right" about your GE comment
There are honest CPA's who do better then "average" CPA's, that is true in about every profession. (EOD, not so much, b/c well.....if you arent good you dont last very long)
The reason I say your argement is flawed is b/c you are attacking the wrong people. It is NOT a complaince competency issue. The rules are there and have to be followed. YOUR argument should be with the $$$ people. There IS a way to keep wrestling. If LU had the money to mantain a wrestling progam and all of the requisite and offsetting women's sports, we would have a wrestling program. THAT is how we both follow the law AND keep a wrestling team. Your only OTHER option would be to eliminate another men's sport. And they have put just as much hard work and dedication into THEIR sport as the wrestlers have theirs. Unfortunately, wrestling does not enjoy the advantages (i.e. Conference affiliation) as the other sports.
As for wrestling background, what does that matter? Are you now going to claim, "Its a wrestling thing, you wouldn't understand"? Really? Yes, I have wrestling in my past and trust me, I have probably forgotten more about the History of Sport then most on this board have ever learned.
If you take ANYTHING away, remember this is not about the SPORT of wrestling. People like and respect it. This IS about money and federal compliance.

I think it is competence and want too. I think other sports have representation in the AD office wrestling doesn't. The Conference issue is a non starter, their are no benefits of not having a wrestling team. Obviously non to having one so not sure where the impact is. It sounds nice to through on the wall but in reality what does it look like. Besides, VMI has a wrestling team.

I'm not for sacrificing any sport but play around with the sacred cow, or the elephant in the room Football. Is it a revenue producing sport. yes. What is the expense? I love Football so it's even more difficult to lay on the alter, but what if you did. I think that would create a tsunami effect against title 9. We would definitely have an appetite to fix the problems now because money is involved and huge amounts of support. So maybe Liberty should put football on the alter, because now we have everyone's attention how unfair title 9 is. And by the way we wont have to cut back on any other sports also like we do now. And for those concerned about the testimony, we are above reproach. There I took the bait what now?

[Kolzilla41]

I would be willing to drop basketball before I would football. Dropping football would kill the amount of resident student enrollment.

[Purple Haize]

L Fan I think you have finally done it!! You actually put a solution on the table. It is never going to happen, but at least you put something out there! The only mistake you make is in saying " because now we have everyone's attention how unfair title 9 is". I am not sure who EVERYONE is and I am just about positive LU losing its wrestling team is not the seismic event the nation is looking for to amend Title IX.
Now if a school WERE to cut their football or basketball program THAT would draw attention to the issue. There are 2 inherent problems with that solution.
1) It is an OBVIOUS publicity stunt by whoever does that and will be labeled and diminished in the court of public opinion. While it is not a legally binding court, it is sure as shootin going to be invaluable for a long drawn out fight.
2) You mentioned it. Those are your two biggest revenue generating (potential) sports. While a football team is usually a net economic loss to an athletic department, it is also a HUGE plus in visibility, prestige and does hold the potential to be a money maker. A study done many moons ago actually showed that men's basketball is a better and more consistent ROI than any other sport.
Since Wrestling does not generate the amount of revenue that Football or Basketball do or have the potential to do, that is one strike against them. Since big money donors don't sit around and brag about how competitive the wrestling program is, that would be strike 2. Finally, you would still be pitting one sport against another, and in a urination contest like this "olympic" sports will lose every time. Strike 3.

[L Fan]

L Fan I think you have finally done it!! You actually put a solution on the table. It is never going to happen, but at least you put something out there! The only mistake you make is in saying " because now we have everyone's attention how unfair title 9 is". I am not sure who EVERYONE is and I am just about positive LU losing its wrestling team is not the seismic event the nation is looking for to amend Title IX.
Now if a school WERE to cut their football or basketball program THAT would draw attention to the issue. There are 2 inherent problems with that solution.
1) It is an OBVIOUS publicity stunt by whoever does that and will be labeled and diminished in the court of public opinion. While it is not a legally binding court, it is sure as shootin going to be invaluable for a long drawn out fight.
2) You mentioned it. Those are your two biggest revenue generating (potential) sports. While a football team is usually a net economic loss to an athletic department, it is also a HUGE plus in visibility, prestige and does hold the potential to be a money maker. A study done many moons ago actually showed that men's basketball is a better and more consistent ROI than any other sport.
Since Wrestling does not generate the amount of revenue that Football or Basketball do or have the potential to do, that is one strike against them. Since big money donors don't sit around and brag about how competitive the wrestling program is, that would be strike 2. Finally, you would still be pitting one sport against another, and in a urination contest like this "olympic" sports will lose every time. Strike 3.

This response is only meant to provoke thought:

So wrong and short-sighted, some of the biggest donors in the world are wrestler's Bill Gates and Warren Buffet for starters. I bet some of Liberty's heaviest hitter's are wrestlers. Something like 58% of Fortune 500 CEO's are former wrestlers. On and On

Consider:In many countries that are our adversary, wrestling is a National sport. Watch MMA, who are the most successful? It is undisputed as a whole - wrestlers with college experience. Understand it takes years to grow a wrestler. Our armed forces are now teaching combative skills that originate from wrestling. If you do some math, you could argue every day you kill a wrestling program you make our country weaker. Less able to protect itself from our adversaries.
Just like when we send our manufacturing base to China and others, now we can't even make a shirt. But we can kick you butt in Basketball. Oligopolies Like Home Depot and Lowe's rule the rest drool. Is that what we want for Men's college athletics, Basketball and Football.
What title 9 is doing to our country in the way of Men's athletics is making us less than. We eliminate a mens sport because we can't make numbers work? Eventually you realize if Lowe's or Home Depot doesn't provide it, your out of luck because they don't do millwork. I know Purple I'm illogical or flawed. Enjoy

[jbock13]

This response is only meant to provoke thought:

So wrong and short-sighted, some of the biggest donors in the world are wrestler's Bill Gates and Warren Buffet for starters. I bet some of Liberty's heaviest hitter's are wrestlers. Something like 58% of Fortune 500 CEO's are former wrestlers. On and On

Consider:In many countries that are our adversary, wrestling is a National sport. Watch MMA, who are the most successful? It is undisputed as a whole - wrestlers with college experience. Understand it takes years to grow a wrestler. Our armed forces are now teaching combative skills that originate from wrestling. If you do some math, you could argue every day you kill a wrestling program you make our country weaker. Less able to protect itself from our adversaries.
Just like when we send our manufacturing base to China and others, now we can't even make a shirt. But we can kick you butt in Basketball. Oligopolies Like Home Depot and Lowe's rule the rest drool. Is that what we want for Men's college athletics, Basketball and Football.
What title 9 is doing to our country in the way of Men's athletics is making us less than. We eliminate a mens sport because we can't make numbers work? Eventually you realize if Lowe's or Home Depot doesn't provide it, your out of luck because they don't do millwork. I know Purple I'm illogical or flawed. Enjoy

I'm going to be honest, I really have no idea what you're even talking about. Can you please clarify? Sorry I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't get how Lowe's had anything to do with a wrestling analogy...

[L Fan]

This response is only meant to provoke thought:

So wrong and short-sighted, some of the biggest donors in the world are wrestler's Bill Gates and Warren Buffet for starters. I bet some of Liberty's heaviest hitter's are wrestlers. Something like 58% of Fortune 500 CEO's are former wrestlers. On and On

Consider:In many countries that are our adversary, wrestling is a National sport. Watch MMA, who are the most successful? It is undisputed as a whole - wrestlers with college experience. Understand it takes years to grow a wrestler. Our armed forces are now teaching combative skills that originate from wrestling. If you do some math, you could argue every day you kill a wrestling program you make our country weaker. Less able to protect itself from our adversaries.
Just like when we send our manufacturing base to China and others, now we can't even make a shirt. But we can kick you butt in Basketball. Oligopolies Like Home Depot and Lowe's rule the rest drool. Is that what we want for Men's college athletics, Basketball and Football.
What title 9 is doing to our country in the way of Men's athletics is making us less than. We eliminate a mens sport because we can't make numbers work? Eventually you realize if Lowe's or Home Depot doesn't provide it, your out of luck because they don't do millwork. I know Purple I'm illogical or flawed. Enjoy

I'm going to be honest, I really have no idea what you're even talking about. Can you please clarify? Sorry I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't get how Lowe's had anything to do with a wrestling analogy...

At the risk of sounding like Glenn Beck

Oligopoly-You want to google this word for starters-basically "An oligopoly is much like a monopoly, in which only one company exerts control over most of a market. In an oligopoly, there are at least two firms controlling the market". Hold that thought now think Home Depot and Lowe's True Value is out of luck. Walmart and Target Kmart out of luck Tracking? It is sort of what is happening to Men's College sports when you look at it from a market perspective. There are basically only 2 revenue producing sports Football and Basketball the rest will eventually be out of luck because they are basically begging for the scraps or positioning themselves to capitalize in a lesser market.
On a totally different note Baseball players have two tracks after HS they can join a Minor league team or play ball in college. For wrestlers college is usually the only route to the Olympics. Same for some of the others sports in college. So when you see us starting to lose the Olympics you will know why. There are virtually no men's college gymnastic teams. Just like there are probably no one doing millwork in your town. Definitely no one making shirts. Not sure if that helps, All in all it is painful watching the great sport of wrestling leave our country and the other expertise that made our country great and diverse in a good way.

[Aaron Bruce]

So, if I understand things correctly, Liberty needed to add 3 more women sports to be in compliance. They dropped one men’s team. Which 2 men’s teams are next? I would be sweating if I were the men’s golf, soccer, or tennis coaches. I would be interested in counting the roster sizes of the golf and tennis team. They might only account for 1 “team” when it comes to the head count. Without taking the time to count each roster, I seriously doubt that even dropping 2 more men’s sports will get us to the proportionality of the student body. It takes a LOT of Girls playing tennis and golf to make up for the 90 football players.

[Schfourteenteen]

FBS Football thanks wrestling for their contribution to keeping Liberty out of trouble.

[Aaron Bruce]

@JLFJR:
I so fondly remember your father when I was on the mountain. I am the class of ’94 and was the captain on the team when we were dropped the first time. I’ll never forget when he asked me to come down to the stage during convocation right before we left for nationals so we could say a few words and he would pray for us. When I got to the mike, I said in a very serious tone, “I would like to take this opportunity to personally...” I paused for dramatic effect…”challenge Mr. Jerry Falwell to a wrestling match.” I swear, before I had gotten the word “match” out of my mouth, your dad had me in the air and slammed me to the stage! The crowed went crazy! I actually had students ask me later if I thought I could take him haha! Man, I have a bunch of stories like that about your dad…I can’t count how many times he kidney punched me as he was shaking my hand. BTW, I don’t think he realized how strong he actually was-those really hurt! After you guys dropped the program the first time, I saw your father off campus. I was surprised he recognized me out of context of the school. He looked me in the eye, put his arm around me and said, “Aaron, we ARE going to get your program back.” That stuck with me…I don’t know exactly what it was, I guess I could see his heartfelt compassion for the program. I realize you know your father much better than I do (obviously) but I swear your dad would have fought this.

I took a minute and I put some roster numbers together. I fully realize I’m off a bit. If our general student enrollment trend does indeed get to 54% women, we are going to need to drop a lot more than wrestling. By my count, we could have football, track, and basketball-that’s it. We will have to drop baseball, golf, soccer, and tennis in order to be proportionate. That would give us approximately 350 total athletes with 160 men +/- and 195 women +/-. We could cut track and maybe save a couple of other men’s teams but I am assuming that program is far too successful to drop-although UCLA did drop their men’s swimming team after winning a pile of NCAA championships. Mr. Falwell, have we really made a decision to become proportionate? Please, let us know so we can gain some political support from the other sports across the country. Right now, everyone uses the flawed excuse, “wrestling is dying, they would never drop ______ (fill in your sport).” As I am sure you have been informed, wrestling is GROWING at the youth level.

All you non-wrestlers out there saying, “Sorry Charlie, you had to go” better be looking out. If a school chooses the proportionality prong and has a football team-you are the walking dead. You had better wake up and join the fight before it is too late. Unless, of course, all you really care about is football/basketball.

[jbock13]

L fan, thanks, I understand your point now (even though I disagree).

Let me just ask you this one question... why is wrestling unprofitable if everyone likes it? Surely in Iowa, the wrestling program brings in money. Or, perhaps, it's the least profitable for us (I don't know for sure if it is), and that is another reason we had to choose wrestling to cut to comply with Title XI.

I'm not attacking wrestling. I know I could get beat by a wrestler. I'm just saying that I feel it's something that had to be done.

[Stevewalt]

I am alittle more calm about this now even though I feel this is the wrong step for Liberty to take, it goes against everything it stood for in the past but maybe times have changed on the mountain...

I am a father of a youth wrestler(as you can see from my picture from a few years ago) and let me tell everyone, the youth sport of wrestling is going bananas over it's amount of wrestlers. There are more young wrestlers than some tournaments can fit. The south is a growing region for wrestling and some of the better wrestlers are coming from Florida and North Carolina.

Title 9 while of good intentions was created and "enforced" needs to be looked at again and modifications done to protect men's sports.

[Purple Haize]

L FAN - You actually DID sound like Glenn Beck. I hear there is an opening for the 5 PM slot now at FOX!! You make a horrible comparison with Lowe's and Men's wrestling, however, your overall philosophical observations are not too bad. The only exceptions I would take would be these 2:
1. Just like in 1917, 1941 etc, the Military is having to make up in their training for the lack of overall physical education in scholastic curriculum, not soely an absence of wrestling programs.
2. The military and MMA for that matter, focus on combat sports. And yes, you can make a good argument that they all stem from wrestling. Boxing also has a good argument. (My personal favorite being Krav Maga, but that's just b/c some 60 yr old IDF General officer kicked my butt about 20 yrs ago, but I digress)
Where I think your argument is not as firm, is that the difference between today's military and 'yesteryears' is that this is a "professional" army, so members of it are more dedicated and willing to learn these, imo, lost arts. What does this have to do with Title IX, nothing, unless you lump co ed boot camp! Lowe's or Home Depot? Noting unless you are talking Wrassling and need a good 2 x 4!

@AARON - You got that right! I don't think the good Reverend knew his own strength!! I usually go the quick jab to the gut. Winded me the first time, but was prepared for it after that!! Funny OT story: He jabbed me once and I jabbed him back and we both had a laugh. Later I was pulled aside by a "Concerned Citizen" and asked how I could call myself a Christian and strike a Man of God!! I said "He hit me first so that means ONE of us ISN'T a Christian b/c one of us struck a Man of God!!" The look, PRICELESS. I also like your facts and figures and while they are a smidge off, the fact that you put the time to research is a good thing.

[Aaron Bruce]

@JBOC13
I guarantee wrestling was not the “least profitable” program at Liberty. I really get aggravated when I hear the phrases “revenue” and “non-revenue” sports. There are few, and I mean VERY few athletic teams who actually turn a profit. The overwhelming majority (including Basketball and Bootball) lose money- Big money. So, I would submit the program that was in the red the least would be considered the “most profitable” I know a wrestling mat costs $10,000. How much did the soccer field cost to excavate/build? $100,000? How about the Vines center? $1,000,000? Football Stadium? $10,000,000?

My point is that this discussion should NOT be about money. Liberty is doing fine financially and SHOUD have the Vines Center/Football Stadium/Soccer Field/Wrestling Mat. This discussion should be squarely focused on Title IX and whether or not Liberty is really going to become proportionate. As I mentioned earlier, if so, they are going to need to drop a lot more. If they would have announced Wrestling, Baseball, Soccer, Golf, and Tennis were all being dropped would you have a different tune? If so, you should rethink your position. When the administration announced they were going to begin to become proportionate without adding more women’s program- that was a death sentence to those said programs.

[Purple Haize]

'''' let me tell everyone, the youth sport of wrestling is going bananas over it's amount of wrestlers. There are more young wrestlers than some tournaments can fit. The south is a growing region for wrestling and some of the better wrestlers are coming from Florida and North Carolina.

.

STEVE There actually is a large surge in the interest in youth wrestling. Alot of that is societal, in that we are evolving into more individual sports (X Games, Wrestling,) and leisure (XBOX, even XBOX LIVE). You are seeing a decline in "traditional" sports such as baseball and even football.( L FAN would claim the baseball reduction is b/c of outsourcing to the Caribean with money supplied by George Soros! ) Basketbal will always be popular b/c of its grassroots (ok blacktop) interest, its high level (NBA) interest and a tremendous global influence. (Think Cricket and Soccer around the 1800's to early 1900's and the British Empire)
I would caution that youth explosion and interest does not necessarily extrapolate into future/long term participants. This is seem most dramatically in Soccer/Futbol and to a lesser extent in LAX.

Ok class, don't forget a quiz on Tuesday and make sure you start your supplemental reading: Rounders:Its not just a movie.

[Purple Haize]

Aaron, you showed such great promise, and then faded LOL You obviously did not read the requisite previous 200 posts LOL. Football is a financial drain on all but the top tier programs, even to the point of funding the REST of the athletic department. (Thus OSU is NOT looking for a new coach!) However, basketball, is rarely, if EVER a money drain on a university.
You are right that this shouldn't be all about money and it isn't. As difficult as it is to admit it, a football team provides a prestige and instrinsic value to a university that other sports can not compare too. (The 2nd being basketball, b/c lets face it, few go to Duke b/c of Football!) Is that fair? No. Unfortunately it is life.
Yes, apparently LU is CURRENTLY doing fine financially. However, it wasn't so long ago that they were wondering if they could meet pay roll. I think the Dept is and will be prudent in how the use the university's resources

[Aaron Bruce]

@ Purple Haize
Please show me where I’m off, seriously, I really want to know the situation we are in- I am not trying to be argumentative. I have our current rosters totaling 424 (had to assume with women’s field hockey- I used 20). I have our current men without wrestling to be 229 and women 195. That’s 54% men 46% women. I dropped baseball, golf, soccer and tennis and came up with 354 total with 159 men and 195 women. That’s 45% men and 55% women (very close to where our enrollment is trending).

[Purple Haize]

@ Purple Haize
Please show me where I’m off, seriously, I really want to know the situation we are in- I am not trying to be argumentative. I have our current rosters totaling 424 (had to assume with women’s field hockey- I used 20). I have our current men without wrestling to be 229 and women 195. That’s 54% men 46% women. I dropped baseball, golf, soccer and tennis and came up with 354 total with 159 men and 195 women. That’s 45% men and 55% women (very close to where our enrollment is trending).

LOL I said a "Smidge" LOL Not trying to imply that you were grossly off. Plus there is a "margain of error" the NCAA allows.

[Aaron Bruce]

However, basketball, is rarely, if EVER a money drain on a university.

@ Purple Haize
Ok, now I will be argumentative. I have no idea what Liberty’s average paying attendance was this year but…There is no way 15 home games with an average of, let’s say, 3,000 paying fans makes up for the huge DI basketball budget. What is it, $10/ticket? That is $450,000. Does that even cover the coach’s salaries? We have 5 coaches. Head $200,000, Assistant 1 $80,000, Assistant 2 $60,000, Asstant 3-5 $40,000. Do I have my math right? Haha, I checked it twice, that equals $460,000.

Now, I know you are going to say the head does not make $200,000, maybe you are right but I have had first-hand experience with a small DI school that had nowhere near 3,000 paying fans and his contract maxed out at $200,000. They actually fired him and bought out his contract as they were paying for the new guy. I guess if you wanted to do a little research it wouldn’t take too long to figure out who I’m talking about. Fine, you can probably show that the combined salaries are closer to $360,000 but you get my point. 10 Full scholarships= $200,000, What does it cost to light/heat the vines center for 3 hours each game? The utility costs alone for the vines center has got to be close $10,000/yr. How many paid positions does it take to upkeep the facility? Travel budget?-looking at their schedule they probably flew 4 times. What is there entourage? 25 people? Can you fly/hotel/feed/rent vehicles for $500/person for a 2 day trip?=$12,500 each trip X 4 trips =$50,000 for those 4 trips. I have not even begun to point to all the costs associated with Basketball. What does a 10,000 seat arena cost to construct?

Haize, I’m sorry, there are a PILE of small DI basketball programs that lose money. But…again…this discussion should not be about money.

[Stevewalt]

@Purple

I agree youth explosion of sports does not ALWAYS mean it is a blossoming sport as they get older. The difference between youth soccer/LAX and youth wrestling is you can be a mediocre player and still find a team but the mediocre wrestlers get weeded out by getting the snot mauled out of them at tournaments. It is a team mentality to a individual sport mentality.

I talked to our local HS Football coach (he incourages his linemen and linebackers to wrestle for footwork and hips)about this situation just the other day and he said something very interesting to me...he said and I quote "football is a sport to kids but wrestling is a lifestyle" I have to agree with that too. If we wrestling fans/parents/participants are ravenous it is because of our sport

[Purple Haize]

However, basketball, is rarely, if EVER a money drain on a university.

@ Purple Haize
Ok, now I will be argumentative. I have no idea what Liberty’s average paying attendance was this year but…There is no way 15 home games with an average of, let’s say, 3,000 paying fans makes up for the huge DI basketball budget. What is it, $10/ticket? That is $450,000. Does that even cover the coach’s salaries? We have 5 coaches. Head $200,000, Assistant 1 $80,000, Assistant 2 $60,000, Asstant 3-5 $40,000. Do I have my math right? Haha, I checked it twice, that equals $460,000.

Now, I know you are going to say the head does not make $200,000, maybe you are right but I have had first-hand experience with a small DI school that had nowhere near 3,000 paying fans and his contract maxed out at $200,000. They actually fired him and bought out his contract as they were paying for the new guy. I guess if you wanted to do a little research it wouldn’t take too long to figure out who I’m talking about. Fine, you can probably show that the combined salaries are closer to $360,000 but you get my point. 10 Full scholarships= $200,000, What does it cost to light/heat the vines center for 3 hours each game? The utility costs alone for the vines center has got to be close $10,000/yr. How many paid positions does it take to upkeep the facility? Travel budget?-looking at their schedule they probably flew 4 times. What is there entourage? 25 people? Can you fly/hotel/feed/rent vehicles for $500/person for a 2 day trip?=$12,500 each trip X 4 trips =$50,000 for those 4 trips. I have not even begun to point to all the costs associated with Basketball. What does a 10,000 seat arena cost to construct?

Haize, I’m sorry, there are a PILE of small DI basketball programs that lose money. But…again…this discussion should not be about money.

You are correct about Expenses, but selling yourself short of revenue streams. There are the "Guarantee Games" that can go into the 6 figures, LU's cut of the NCAA tournament appearance by our conference representative. Plus various marketing, apparel and etc income. THere is a reason that "Big Time" schools play "Our Mother of the Worthless Miracle" early in the season. Also, the reason that UNCA has a terrible record coming into BSC play is b/c the majority if not all of their operating revenue comes from "Money Games".