[Kolzilla41]

Per Lang

Rough day for Liberty sports. First MBB guard Evan Gordon transfers. Now wrestling program has been reclassified from Div. 1 to club status.

[SuperJon]

It's already on the website. Title IX issue.

[Kolzilla41]

Just saw that. Thanks Jon. So even there is one more Women's sport, Liberty is not spending an equal amount of money on 19 programs?

[Sly Fox]

Wrestling has previously been declared a co-ed sport by the NCAA. There must have been an interpretation change by the NCAA.

[flamehunter]

I don't think it's got to do with money, it is related to the proportion of male/female athletes compared to the proportion of male/female students. I say kick some girls (non athletes) out of school!

[jbock13]

It's stupid (that the NCAA has done these sorts of things). There's such a thing as chivalry. I'm sorry that I believe a woman should never fight (or wrestle) with a man. Nor should a man ever physically fight with a woman. Am I sexist for saying to? Fine.

I wonder what NOW thinks of this. But then again, the kind of women they support, maybe calling them a man isn't too far off...

I realize I've pretty much politizied this forum, which sorry, but it's these misguided policies that lead to things like this happening. It's a sad day when we use any of our sports.

[jbock13]

I don't think it's got to do with money, it is related to the proportion of male/female athletes compared to the proportion of male/female students. I say kick some girls (non athletes) out of school!

Actually that's not a good idea. Not a good idea at all. I don't know about you, but I enjoy the high female population

[flamehunter]

I don't think it's got to do with money, it is related to the proportion of male/female athletes compared to the proportion of male/female students. I say kick some girls (non athletes) out of school!

Actually that's not a good idea. Not a good idea at all. I don't know about you, but I enjoy the high female population

My wife prefers I don't notice the high female population. And as long as it's not my own daughter who is booted out... Just kidding. I simply don't like the whole Title IX thing the way it has worked out regarding these type of situations. Instead of creating more opportunities for ladies, in this situation it has taken some away from deserving men.

[jbock13]

It's at least fair to say, in my opinion, that Title XI, like most governmental policy, is a well-intentioned idea that produces many secondary consequences (for those who didn't study economics, that's a fancy word for "negative")

And if you're married, well the high female ratio doesn't matter to you But if you're not...

[Stevewalt]

This is just a real crusher to me tonight! I am very unsatisfied with the reasons given by Mr. Barber and believe this could have been avoided. There were other options for this great sport and Olympic sport at that.

I am pretty ticked right now and feel for the sake of my blood pressure and my use of clean language I will not say another word till I calm down.

But I will say I am ashamed that I went LU and that my school would do this again to my sport after just returning it to the athletic department in2006. Just makes my blood boil...

[BJWilliams]

This is certainly a tough bit of news with the level of success the program has had in a short time...but something tells me there is more to this than they can say publicly so Im not going to pass judgement (as is usually my MO)

[jbock13]

Steve, Mr. Barber is correct about the Title IX issues and how the NCAA (and the federal government) calculate compliance. Either it was add 3 more probably unprofitable women's sports, or cut wrestling.

Don't get me wrong, nobody wants to see wrestling cut. But, as I mentioned above, unintended consequences have caused this. We are not the only school who have had to cut under Title XI.

[jbock13]

Here is a link to the 3 ways of compliance. From wikipedia

Three-prong test of compliance
HEW's 1979 Policy Interpretation articulated three ways compliance with Title IX can be achieved. This became known as the "three-part test" for compliance. A recipient of federal funds can demonstrate compliance with Title IX by meeting any one of the three prongs.[18]
Prong one - Providing athletic participation opportunities that are substantially proportionate to the student enrollment, OR
Prong two - Demonstrate a continual expansion of athletic opportunities for the underrepresented sex, OR
Prong three - Full and effective accommodation of the interest and ability of underrepresented sex.

[Sly Fox]

Not to take on the role of defender of Title IX (because I despise the law), but to dismiss the advances of womens athletics in America since Title IX was instituted can't be argued affectively. Womens sports wasn't even part of the NCAA when most of you guys were born. And womens college sports essentially consisted of volleyball, hoops & softball. That's it. The proliferation of womens sports at the collegiate level has been a good thing for America IMHO.

That said, the time has come for this act to be put aside. Much like Affirmative Action, it served an important role as an impetus to even up the marketplace. Today, Title IX is not really creating any more opportunities for women. It is simply reshuffling the deck.

Frankly I was astonished when we brought back wrestling (and stated so on here and the old Firehouse) because of the Title IX concerns. Coach Castro has done an absolutely AMAZING job in his short time on the mountain. This has to be a devastating blow to him and the kids in the program.

[Hold My Own]

Again I say it's the worst thing that has happened to sports.

[Sly Fox]

LU reclassifies wrestling as club sport to abide by Title IX

By CHRIS LANG
Published: March 30, 2011

The five-year return of Liberty’s Division I wrestling program ended on Tuesday, as the school announced it has reclassified wrestling from an NCAA Division I sport to a club sport.

Liberty reinstated wrestling prior to the 2006-07 school year, a surprising move considering the nationwide trend of colleges and universities dropping the sport to comply with Title IX gender equity law.

Click Here for Full Story

[jbock13]

Thanks for looking that up so I didn't have to explain it at length. What you do need to know is that the current administration has essentially said schools have had long enough to get up to snuff, and the 2nd prong doesn't cut it anymore. So expect suit to be filed by the AG's office against schools (especially ones like ours) if they don't meet prong 1. Prong 3 is essentially impossible to prove. So prong 1 it is. Once again, title ix has rarely expanded opportunity for deserving female athletes, but has continually taken away opportunities from their male counterparts. The argument that athletic participation is part of the educational experience and thus relevant to title ix is defeated by the existence of club sports. Do you learn less from the experience if scholarships aren't offered? Of course not. This law was never meant to be interpreted with intercollegiate athletics in mind. Disgusting.

BYD's analysis of the prong system is spot on.

[olldflame]

I knew Jesse Castro as a student at LU. He has always been a class act, and I know it was a dream come true for him to be able to coach at his alma matre. Right now I'm guessing his dream feels more like a nightmare, but I have no doubt he'll land on his feet. In 20/20 hindsight, the decision to restart the program now looks questionable. I do know there were people who had been pushing for it behind the scenes for years, and there was money involved.

[logic]

Speaking of money, how much would it cost to add enough Women's programs to keep wrestling? We had revenues of 147 million last year and we'll have a billion in the bank by 2014. AA credit rating. Billionaire donors in the background. Would seem like a minor challenge?

[TDDance234]

It's frustrating to see this after the progress this team had made. Really frustrating.

[PAmedic]

Speaking of money, how much would it cost to add enough Women's programs to keep wrestling? We had revenues of 147 million last year and we'll have a billion in the bank by 2014. AA credit rating. Billionaire donors in the background. Would seem like a minor challenge?

EXACTLY.

beyond disappointed.

glad I procrastinated on my Flames Club donation this year

what a friggin' shame- feel so bad for Coaches Castro and Pantaleo- guess the moving vans are already backing in...

STEVEV I feel your pain bro. This sucks.

BAAAAD DECISION JB. BAADDD

and I know no one cares. So they'll just attempt to appease and move on...

[bigsmooth]

I am disgusted with this. to see how well the wresting program has done and to cut it now for the second time makes me sick. Thoughim happy for the advances of womens athletics with the addition of swimming, lacrosse, and field hockey, im just trying to understand why bring the program back when it would be cut again. myabe im missing something, so someone please clarify this, but how many more womens sports would we have to add to keep wrestling?

[4everfsu]

Add me as one ashamed of LU over the dropping of this sport. When the tough gets going, drop a sport. I have to believe if Jerry was alive this would be not have happened.

[PAmedic]

love to hear the Chancellor's take on this one.

I know he's paying someone to run the AD but many lives are being affected here...

seems like someone decided to take the easy(est) way out.

[jcmanson]

glad I procrastinated on my Flames Club donation this year

seriously? How can you say that? Either you're a supporter or you're not. Put your money where your mouth is.