[jbock13]

This is purely hypothetical, but I was wondering how you all would feel if we decided to go FBS and competed in such a league as the MAC. While we all can agree we need to have success at the National level of FCS first, (which could still take years to happen), I thought I would start a conservation to see if we could compete with teams at the FBS level.

Obviously, we've beaten Ball State from the MAC. Other teams we could easily beat would be Eastern Michigan, Buffalo, and Toledo could be a possible win, along with Bowling Green.

I'm not advocating that Liberty should go FBS anytime soon, there's much to be accomplished here in the FCS, and in fact I'm quite happy with being there. I'm just simply seeing if how others would think comparing us to FBS schools such as those in the MAC.

[jbock13]

Thanks for joining us man. This topic has been discussed quite a bit if you would like to read the broad variety of opinions on the issue. Just search fbs. Plenty of threads on realignment as well. We actually don't all agree that we need national success in fcs. I'd say it's close to a 50/50 split. We'd all love to have that success, but it isn't a precursor to us moving up for certain. I think most see us more in conference USA than the Mac, but I doubt we would turn down an invite from either.

I agree with you that we fit better in the C-USA than the MAC, but I also believe we probably wouldn't have as much success there. Aside from beating Tulane, Rice, and Memphis, probably. Also, the CUSA currently has 12 teams, the MAC has 13, used to be 14, so that would leave a spot.

Also I forgot Akron, obviously we'd beat them if Gardner Webb did.

And sorry for repeating, I have been monitoring this board for since the Summer but with all this playoff fighting going on I just had to finally join I hadn't seen much discussion on the whole FBS thing for awhile.

[kuntryboimike]

Keep in mind that our roster would improve significantly, almost immediately, if we moved up. We would be able to recruit 2 stars much more frequently, and draw 3 stars as well. If we moved now, hypothetically, we would be only the 3rd fbs program in the state. So, I believe we would be a major player in the mac within 2 seasons, maybe sooner. C-USA would be tougher, IMO.

Agree 100%. I'd love to move up to FBS period. I don't care what conference. I'm for FBS 100%. I would say I'd miss the playoffs style of FCS but then again when have we ever gotten in the playoffs....

[olldflame]

Marshall went from 1AA to the MAC and I believe won it their first year. Of course they had a couple of 1AA championships under their belt before they made the move.

[Hold My Own]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, success at the FBS level depends on a financial commitment far more then success with wins and losses at the FCS level. Think about it, if you take the top team in FCS they will peel off a few wins with the current level their roster is at but true success wont come until a few years down the road. Nobody can make the jump and win right away....at least it's rare. Last team I can think of was UCF maybe? Either way it's a commitment financially that's the most important....not really much else (as long as you arent the worst team in the country).


EDIT: Just read your post. Again, that's the outlier, not the norm

[jbock13]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, success at the FBS level depends on a financial commitment far more then success with wins and losses at the FCS level. Think about it, if you take the top team in FCS they will peel off a few wins with the current level their roster is at but true success wont come until a few years down the road. Nobody can make the jump and win right away....at least it's rare. Last team I can think of was UCF maybe? Either way it's a commitment financially that's the most important....not really much else (as long as you arent the worst team in the country).


EDIT: Just read your post. Again, that's the outlier, not the norm

Good point. Western Kentucky is a good example. They were dominant at the FCS level, yet at one point they went something like 26 straight games losing. I'm not sure I want to see Liberty have to go through that though. As for UCF, they have done a very good job building a winning program fast.

I think the problem is that so many of these MAC teams (for example) schedule so many money games and road games that they demoralize the fan base (take a look at Western Kentucky's schedule since they became FBS). So these teams like WKU are destined for failure.

[Hold My Own]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, success at the FBS level depends on a financial commitment far more then success with wins and losses at the FCS level. Think about it, if you take the top team in FCS they will peel off a few wins with the current level their roster is at but true success wont come until a few years down the road. Nobody can make the jump and win right away....at least it's rare. Last team I can think of was UCF maybe? Either way it's a commitment financially that's the most important....not really much else (as long as you arent the worst team in the country).


EDIT: Just read your post. Again, that's the outlier, not the norm

Good point. Western Kentucky is a good example. They were dominant at the FCS level, yet at one point they went something like 26 straight games losing. I'm not sure I want to see Liberty have to go through that though. As for UCF, they have done a very good job building a winning program fast.

I think the problem is that so many of these MAC teams (for example) schedule so many money games and road games that they demoralize the fan base (take a look at Western Kentucky's schedule since they became FBS). So these teams like WKU are destined for failure.

I agree, and again with a strong financial commitment you could limit your "money" games to just one a year until you've established stability and a fairly good reputation. It's amazing, even in an amateur sports....money solves the majority of your issues.

[Sly Fox]

I don't believe I have formally welcomed you to the board, jbock13. Thanks for diving into the discussions.

Count me as strongly in the camp who believes FCS success is not a prerequisite for FBS membership. If we had held that mindset, we would have never left DII.

FBS membership would instantly improve our roster by sheer numbers alone. The additional 23 scholarships would bulk up our talent practically overnight. And with FBS membership, we would be in position to once again recruit nationally like we did in the Late '80s & Early '90s when the Old Time Gospel Hour gave the school a connection from coast-to-coast each week.

There are any number of scenarios we have discussed a length in other threads over the years (and particularly during the realignment craziness of this summer) that could have us move up. The primary two discussions have focused on an existing conference having us fill a slot to get their numbers in order .... or a group of FBS schools in FCS clothing could form a new regional league in the Mid-Atlantic to Southeastern regions. Both are possibilities but really it is all talk for the most part until the NCAA lifts its moratorium on move-ups this coming summer (and the new rules it will put in place).

[Cider Jim]

Marshall went from 1AA to the MAC and I believe won it their first year. Of course they had a couple of 1AA championships under their belt before they made the move.

The Herd had great and immediate success moving from I-AA to I-A in the MAC (thanks to Moss, Pennington & Leftwich), but they have struggled moving from the MAC to C-USA. I personally would have rather they stayed in the MAC, because I like winning.

Seriously, in terms of enrollment numbers, LU and Marshall are about the same size, so I'd like to see us move up, esp. with our new and improved stadium.

[jbock13]

Marshall went from 1AA to the MAC and I believe won it their first year. Of course they had a couple of 1AA championships under their belt before they made the move.

The Herd had great and immediate success moving from I-AA to I-A in the MAC (thanks to Moss, Pennington & Leftwich), but they have struggled moving from the MAC to C-USA. I personally would have rather they stayed in the MAC, because I like winning.

Seriously, in terms of enrollment numbers, LU and Marshall are about the same size, so I'd like to see us move up, esp. with our new and improved stadium.

I honestly believe the whole stadium expansion move was to try and get facilities that are FBS quality. Of course, I'd argue our stadium is much better than those in the MAC conference especially.

[Hold My Own]

Quality yes, infrastructure no, but after all of the phases are complete we'll be there.

[Purple Haize]

I'll pee on your Wheaties!! A move to FBS would be a disaster on every level. Marshall had a tradition to market, so that was a no brainer.
We will have to compete with UVA and Tech for in state talent. In State talent is a HUGE factor in attendance and success.
We have no conference that would give us a "natural" rivalry
Attendance will become a big issue. Its a Saturday, Tech is playing FSU in Blacksburg, UVA is playing UNC in Charlottesville and LU is Playing Toledo in Lynchburg. What game is the average fan going to?
Just because we beat Ball State this year does not mean" Other teams we could easily beat would be Eastern Michigan, Buffalo, and Toledo could be a possible win, along with Bowling Green" Especially when the recent past shows we cant beat Coastal, Akron or RMU.
There are just so many other reasons it would be a bad idea, but I am sure you can go to the other threads so i don't have to list them all here. (Besides, I am watching UVA beat on Minnesota!)

[jbock13]

I think you are forgetting I even directly said we should not go to FBS yet.

And also, if you really don't think we could beat at least Buffalo, Akron, and Eastern Michigan, well i don't know what else to say.

As for attendance, I'll agree with you there. Also, we'll need to get into the Hampton Roads recruiting area, however I'd add we seem to do well enough from getting recruits from Florida.

[Cider Jim]

Marshall had a tradition to market, so that was a no brainer.

What tradition was that?

Sure, Marshall is an old school (originally a Virginia school), but their football team was terrible until Bobby Pruett got there and brought in Moss, Pennington, and Leftwich.

ECU has to compete in-state with NC State, UNC, Wake, and even Duke, but they do okay recruiting in their own non-ACC conference.

[aredd33]

I'll pee on your Wheaties!! A move to FBS would be a disaster on every level. Marshall had a tradition to market, so that was a no brainer.
We will have to compete with UVA and Tech for in state talent. In State talent is a HUGE factor in attendance and success.
We have no conference that would give us a "natural" rivalry
Attendance will become a big issue. Its a Saturday, Tech is playing FSU in Blacksburg, UVA is playing UNC in Charlottesville and LU is Playing Toledo in Lynchburg. What game is the average fan going to?
Just because we beat Ball State this year does not mean" Other teams we could easily beat would be Eastern Michigan, Buffalo, and Toledo could be a possible win, along with Bowling Green" Especially when the recent past shows we cant beat Coastal, Akron or RMU.
There are just so many other reasons it would be a bad idea, but I am sure you can go to the other threads so i don't have to list them all here. (Besides, I am watching UVA beat on Minnesota!)

I'm not sure if you know this or not but you don't just wake up one morning and decide to go to a game at Virginia Tech. There aren't many (if there are any at all) casual fans that go to VT to games. Tickets are rediculously hard to get and people don't just come to the ticket window and buy tickets. (I'm not even sure they have one cause I've never seen it.) It's something you have to plan out in advance and its not like people from Lynchburg are going to be driving up there. The biggest reason is beacuse it would be next to imposible to get tickets to an FSU VT game.

[Purple Haize]

That whole "We Are Marshall" thing? They had a movie and everything.

Recruiting NC is not the same as recruiting VA. Hampton produces a TON of talent. ECU is up and down, but has a fairly awesome location and they are not going for the same type of students that a Duke or Wake are going for and UNC and NC State aren't exactly powerhouse football schools. North Carolina also has a different dynamic then does Virginia. If you live in Viriginia you only have 2 big schools that attract you, in NC, you have choices. That said when you grow up in VA, UVA and Tech have a built in advantage. When you grow up in NC, you have a lot of schools competing for you at birth so to speak.

[Purple Haize]

AREDD - I am intimately familiar with what it costs to go to a Tech game. But whether you plan it out or go on the spur of the moment (you know someone with tix etc) you would go there before an LU game. Further with their coverage on the ESPN and ACC networks provides incentive for people to stay in and watch those games as opposed to going out and watching an LU game.
While I LOVE the new stadium, we can't go all "Field of Dreams" and expect people to show up! (Although, come to think of it the pre and post game traffic jams look like the closing scene from the movie..)

[From the class of 09]

While we obviously would compete against the in-state schools to some extent at the end of the day we are not a state school and we do have a much larger (geographic) area to pull from.

[jbock13]

(Although, come to think of it the pre and post game traffic jams look like the closing scene from the movie..)

I'm not sure where you park, but if you park at the back of TRBC it's easy to get out. But perhaps, that's only because I leave after the game is over

[Sly Fox]

There's one in every crowd. Sure, we could just follow say the Montreat path of closing ourselves in to be a small fish in a miniscule pond. For many schools that is just fine. Our mission is much larger and our vision is cast a great deal further.

A conference affiliation is a must by NCAA bylaws to enter FBS. Yes, there is no logical league affiliation out there right now. But that doesn't mean that one couldn't arise as early as tomorrow. That's why we are positioning ourselves to make the move when it arises.

Competing against UVa & VT is the last thing on our minds. Little ole TCU is essentially the 5th or 6th choice in state for most football prospects and they seem to be doing OK in a subpar league. Not many kids in Texas grow up dreaming of playing for the Frogs. And talk about your lousy scheduling ...

I see us stepping into FBS sometime in the not too distant future and I am jazzed. FBS membership does not require 30k in the stands each week. Our current attendance numbers are adequate for most lower level FBS conferences (i.e. MAC, Sunbelt, C-USA & a potential new East Coast league). Yes, I would suspect that Phase 2 & possibly 3 would be prerequisites for our invitation into most any FBS conference. Could we draw better facing Middle Tennessee State or Akron or Temple? I believe so. Our local numbers probably wouldn't be affected much but I could see more out of town alumni making the trip to see a FBS team instead of the Charleston Southerns & Gardner-Webbs of the football world.

We are not your typical school by any standard whatsoever. We are not as trapped by the in-state bondage that most schools in the region find themselves bound. We have the potential to once again be a national university and FBS football puts us in that position sooner rather than later.

[LUconn]

He's contrarian.

[PAmedic]

in the FBS we would have been bowl-eligible 4 yrs running, if I'm not mistaken.

See how that affects recruiting.

As opposed to: "We almost made the playoffs 4 yrs in a row, but we did win our league"

[TDDance234]

in the FBS we would have been bowl-eligible 4 yrs running, if I'm not mistaken.

See how that affects recruiting.

As opposed to: "We almost made the playoffs 4 yrs in a row, but we did win our league"

That's a big leap. Our competition surely would have been more difficult.

[olldflame]

5 or 6 may be a stretch, but I don't see anyone other than us and/or JMU moving up in the forseeable future, and I think VA can handle 4.

[jcmanson]

5 or 6 may be a stretch, but I don't see anyone other than us and/or JMU moving up in the forseeable future, and I think VA can handle 4.

ODU

If they start teams - George Mason and VCU