[Cider Jim]

Olldflame, you're not along in your love for Perez. I'm also a big fan.

[olldflame]

I just wanted to add that lest anyone think I am a Minaya hater; nothing could be further from the truth. Coming into this year I was expecting him to be a starter, and probably our second leading scorer. That was totally based on reports of what he was doing in practice. I would still love to see him turn it around because apparently the talent is there, but I think for now Perez and Wheeler are more deserving of the PT.

[Schfourteenteen]

I just wanted to add that lest anyone think I am a Minaya hater; nothing could be further from the truth. Coming into this year I was expecting him to be a starter, and probably our second leading scorer. That was totally based on reports of what he was doing in practice. I would still love to see him turn it around because apparently the talent is there, but I think for now Perez and Wheeler are more deserving of the PT.

?
You mean Johnny Stephene or Bill Weaver?

[olldflame]

I just wanted to add that lest anyone think I am a Minaya hater; nothing could be further from the truth. Coming into this year I was expecting him to be a starter, and probably our second leading scorer. That was totally based on reports of what he was doing in practice. I would still love to see him turn it around because apparently the talent is there, but I think for now Perez and Wheeler are more deserving of the PT.

?
You mean Johnny Stephene or Bill Weaver?

Not sure what 100% sure what you're asking. If Kyle cannot go, we need to replace the things he did, and IMHO Chris Perez and Bill Weaver can best do that. Johnny is a 6'1" combo guard. He's not going to play the 3. Fact is, if Kyle is actually shut down, it will be Jeremy starting in his place, but Jeremy is going to get about 25 minutes a game anyway between the 2 and the 3. Wheeler gives us great defense and energy and Perez has some skill and is big enough to play the 3.

If Johnny Stephene were to suddenly start playing lights out, I could see some outside the box thinking where he would play more at the point and JESSE move to the 3. He would be a matchup nightmare there, but IMHO Stephene hasn't come close to playing at a level to merit getting significant minutes at the point.

[NG33]

but I think for now Perez and Wheeler are more deserving of the PT.

that's what he was asking about lol.. but I think it's safe to say you meant Weaver

[olldflame]

Yeah, I meant Weaver.

All the speculating is fun, and of course, it's a big part of what FF is about, but if I were a betting man, my money is on Kyle continuing to play at least 25-30 minutes a game as long as we are in the running for a top 4 seed and a first round home game. If we were to drop out of contention for that, I could see starting to prepare for the future like manson said.

[bigsmooth]

you are definitely a numbers guy olld , so we will have to just agree to disagree, but from what i see of perez he has made a lot a mental mistakes at key points and that cannot be blamed on being a freshman anymore, because coach layer said that as of january you cant use that excuse. also you pointed out too many turnovers and not so great from the line. to me that is really important. i would love to see how his turnovers have been converted into points for the opponent, and by mental mistakes, there has been more than one time that he has inbounded the ball and stepped over the end line. is that nit picky?? probably, but those types of mistakes should not happen.at times he indeed looks pretty darn good, so i hope he will become more consistent as we really need him now.

[olldflame]

Yeah smooth, I do tend to look more than some do at the numbers when I form opinions on players. I really wish we kept a plus/minus stat for how the team fares when a player is on the court like they do in the NBA and NHL. Personally, I think that would be the best way of measuring if a player is effective or not. There are guys who look pretty on the court, but really don't get that much done. Perez IMHO would fall more in the ugly but effective category. As far as the mental mistakes are concerned, sure, he makes them, but Stephene and Minaya do too (statistically more often ), and they don't even have the freshman excuse.

[bigsmooth]

oh i know olld...im not a fan of minaya or stephene, but i get where you are coming from for sure and i would love a plu/minus stat for hoops.

[ToTheLeft]

They have a plus minus for NBA games on ESPN. It's nice.

[Chris Lang]

http://bit.ly/5ktIvN

[olldflame]

So, after we have all given our opinion, it looks like now we will find out coach Layer's. Kyle will have a pin inserted and be out 2 weeks. Jeremy will start in his place.

[ToTheLeft]

I like that a lot. Two weeks isn't the end of the world. If he comes back and can get back into it within a week of practicing and playing after the two weeks out, then he's good to go before the last week or two of conference play, and the tourney.

[Sly Fox]

From Chris' Blog:

* Liberty’s Kyle Ohman successfully had a pin inserted into his broken left wrist today. He’s not with the team today. The newest injury prognosis has him out for 2-6 weeks, which is potentially much longer than expected. Just spoke to Liberty athletics trainer Aaron Schreiner, who told me Ohman’s wrist will be in a splint for the next two weeks, and after the splint comes off, they’ll be able to determine the next course of action. Really, it sounds to me that it’s all going to be about Ohman’s pain tolerance going forward. He’s a senior, so there’s no redshirt option left for him.

[jcmanson]

From libertyflames.com: http://www.libertyflames.com/index.cfm? ... 58&TeamID=

[jcmanson]

I think it's pretty safe to say that we're better off with a broke Kyle than no Kyle.

Although even with a healthy Kyle we're not going to win the BSC. We were hoping for at best a 3rd place finish and a win, maybe 2 in the conference tourney. Without Kyle we're staring at a 6th or 7th place finish.

To be honest I hope Kyle doesn't make it back this season. Even if he does we're not going to make the NCAAs and with him being our only senior I say let's just begin playing for the next 2 years now. Presby's already doing it.

[SuperJon]

To be honest I hope Kyle doesn't make it back this season. Even if he does we're not going to make the NCAAs and with him being our only senior I say let's just begin playing for the next 2 years now.

That's completely, 100% unfair to Kyle. He has worked his butt off to get to where he is now. His attitude has done a complete 180 from where it used to be. He has taken a leadership role that no one ever expected him to and has taken it over with flying colors. Kyle deserves to play as much as he can if he's healthy and can contribute.

[jcmanson]

To be honest I hope Kyle doesn't make it back this season. Even if he does we're not going to make the NCAAs and with him being our only senior I say let's just begin playing for the next 2 years now.

That's completely, 100% unfair to Kyle. He has worked his butt off to get to where he is now. His attitude has done a complete 180 from where it used to be. He has taken a leadership role that no one ever expected him to and has taken it over with flying colors. Kyle deserves to play as much as he can if he's healthy and can contribute.

I know, and that popped into my head right when I typed that. But as a fan, those are my selfish hopes.

[Rocketfan]

To be honest I hope Kyle doesn't make it back this season. Even if he does we're not going to make the NCAAs and with him being our only senior I say let's just begin playing for the next 2 years now.

That's completely, 100% unfair to Kyle. He has worked his butt off to get to where he is now. His attitude has done a complete 180 from where it used to be. He has taken a leadership role that no one ever expected him to and has taken it over with flying colors. Kyle deserves to play as much as he can if he's healthy and can contribute.

Didn't David Dees have the samething happen to him. He is getting a scholly, and he is a student athlete so he cant complain about free school. Its also a business and in order for the business to make more money the product on the court has to improve in the next few years. Which means trial by fire. Its not like this doesn't happen in other sports as well. Playing time isn't about fairness... this isn't 8th grade intramural team.

[SuperJon]

People ripped Dees' coach for doing it too. You don't give up possible wins by sitting your best player in his senior season when he's healthy. And please don't bring up Presbyterian, that's a completely different situation.

[Hold My Own]

Something else to be considered. What is every middle school basketball players dream? It's not always just the coach that makes the decision to play or sit and risk further injury for hopes that dream can come true (regardless of how far fetched)...

[jcmanson]

Didn't David Dees have the samething happen to him. He is getting a scholly, and he is a student athlete so he cant complain about free school. Its also a business and in order for the business to make more money the product on the court has to improve in the next few years. Which means trial by fire. Its not like this doesn't happen in other sports as well. Playing time isn't about fairness... this isn't 8th grade intramural team.

Well said

[olldflame]

I don't believe you grow a program by throwing a season away. Presby is a unique situation. It remains to be seen how it will work out for them, but they had nothing to lose this year, so why not? We don't even have enough players coming back with a redshirt year still available to do what they did.

Say what you want about our chances to go to the dance this year; with VMI and Presby where they are at the bottem, we WILL be in the conference tournament, and as long as that's the case it's possible to catch lightning in a bottle, and that needs to be our goal. Our young players will get a chance for some extra experience while Kyle is out. When he is ready to play again, he should be in there.

[jcmanson]

It's not throwing a season away. It's giving your players who will be here for 2+ more years an opportunity to learn through experience. It's not like we're sitting half the team. We're talking about our lone remaining scholly upperclassmen. Say what you want, but with or without Kyle there's 0% chance we win the tourney.

[Schfourteenteen]

I dont see the benefit of giving Kyle's minutes away in the tournament. Who would you give them to? Spence? Stephene? Minaya? All three of those players bring much less to the game than Kyle, and I would question their roles as players in the future.

If Kyle was a role player, I'd agree with you. But he's our main offensive threat right now. Kyle is also one of the few player who has actually been here for 4 years. The only one to play for 3 coaches. He's earned the minutes.