[olldflame]

I don't think anyone is using revisionist history here in spite of WUs conference tournament win in 08 Realist. They did not have a dominant year, did not win the regular season championship, and signs of some decline were apparent to a lot of us. In the final they got a monster shooting performance from a very good senior guard and the refs let Buechart (sp?) get away with assault and battery on George and they won, but it was IMHO not the same dominant team of the previous several years, and it looks like I'm not alone in that opinion.

[Realist]

In 08 Winthrop knocked off two top 25 teams, two ACC teams, won a co title regular season and won the Big South tournament. They were head and shoulders above the rest of the conference, except for Asheville, which had probably the best team in its history and a good team at that, but couldn't even compete with Winthrop when it mattered, getting blown out when the all the chips were on the table. Winthrop received a 14 seed, which no other school has received as high in conference history other than Winthrop.

You can make if's, and's, and but's, but it doesn't change the fact they won it that year as well and were pretty dominating doing it.......again if it makes you feel better about yourself, then by all means try to justify some weird logic, but WU has been dominant and will continue to be for the long term.

[jcmanson]

but WU has been dominant

Nobody denies that.

and will continue to be for the long term.

That is yet to be determined.

[uncafan]

In 08 Winthrop knocked off two top 25 teams, two ACC teams, won a co title regular season and won the Big South tournament. They were head and shoulders above the rest of the conference, except for Asheville, which had probably the best team in its history and a good team at that, but couldn't even compete with Winthrop when it mattered, getting blown out when the all the chips were on the table. Winthrop received a 14 seed, which no other school has received as high in conference history other than Winthrop.

You can make if's, and's, and but's, but it doesn't change the fact they won it that year as well and were pretty dominating doing it.......again if it makes you feel better about yourself, then by all means try to justify some weird logic, but WU has been dominant and will continue to be for the long term.

You are talking about the same Winthrop team that got beat by 31 in the first round of NCAA, right? (oh and give yourself some credit, you guys were the 13 seed )

You can claim "UNCA didn't get it done when it mattered" but Winthrop was the team that lost the regular season title opportunity on their own home floor and lost to Asheville by what, 15? Yes you guys beat Asheville (and agreed arguably the best Asheville team since we turned D1) in the tourny and you have scoreboard -- but Asheville was a better team than Winthrop that year. Remember Asheville swept Winthrop in the regular season, and Winthrop also dropped games to Coastal & High point. I mean shoot you guys almost lost to Queens College (D2 school) to start off that year, winning by....5 or 6 if I recall? ACC schools? Fine, I think Charleston southern could've beaten G-Tech that year. Miami was a decent win though...for sure.

I'm not saying you didn't have a 'good' team that year by Big South standards -- but compared to what you'd done the previous years I think everybody could see Winthrop had slipped and Asheville took a step up. And then last year they slipped further -- and so far there is no indication that they are back at or near the top.

My biggest problem with you is this Realist. I can respect your blind faithfulness to all things Winthrop. But one day you'll come in here and tell us about the Winthrop 'aura' and 'brand name' and the decided edge in recruiting, and how it doesn't matter who the coach is, and how it takes a year or so and you reload... Or how Winthrop will 'be back' this year for no other reason than 'we're winthrop.' And then other days you say we are too harsh 'how can you expect us to reload we're not carolina,' or 'all programs are down for a year or two...we'll be back!' Or even 'when you lose 8-10 guys'... Come on Realist for once look at facts.

In 2007/08 Winthrop and Asheville were #1/#2 in Conference. Asheville beat Winthrop 2/3 with Winthrop winning in the tourney. Why did Winthrop get hit so much harder than Asheville by losses? Asheville lost 4/5 starters and 6 of 8 guys in their rotation from that year to last year... So what's Winthrop's excuse? Oh I know you guys don't recruit guys to 'play as freshman, it takes them a year or two to get acclimated to the college game.' Come on.

[SumItUp]

I sure am glad there is going to be posting activity on FF over the weekend.

[Realist]

Wow, let me give you some facts to take place of your fantasy.

First, you are going to cite an exhibition game win by 7 against D2 Queens as some sort of indication of slippage? Heck, the year we finished ranked 22nd in the country we beat Newberry by 2 at home. Games against D2's are for experimenting. You can claim UNCA was better that year but the stats don't back it up. By all Pomeroy ratings you guys were actually quite a bit worse than us, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by saying you had a pretty good team---you did by BS standards, not really by ours. The championship game was evidence of this, when the chips were down Winthrop won in a blowout.

I'm also not quite sure how you claim UNCA came out much better last year. WU won 2 out of the 3 meetings then, UNCA finished 10-8, WU 9-9, Pomeroy ratings had the teams separated by 4 spots.

I find your banter quite silly, you are UNCA fan---let's be realistic. You haven't competed on Winthrop's level in over a decade.

And if you can't comprehend my words then you need to go back and get a third degree. It's pretty simple what I'm stating. A dynasty doesn't end in a year and 3 games. We've won 8 titles in 11 years, with a 2 year lapse 5-6 years ago. It's going to take at least 3 years of keeping us out of the dance before you can open your mouth.

You are UNCA, I'm Winthrop. Now kiss my feet.

[jcmanson]

You are UNCA, I'm Winthrop. Now kiss my feet.

good stuff

[BJWilliams]

I sure am glad there is going to be posting activity on FF over the weekend.

pass some of that over here man...

[uncafan]

Wow, let me give you some facts to take place of your fantasy.

First, you are going to cite an exhibition game win by 7 against D2 Queens as some sort of indication of slippage? Heck, the year we finished ranked 22nd in the country we beat Newberry by 2 at home. Games against D2's are for experimenting. You can claim UNCA was better that year but the stats don't back it up. By all Pomeroy ratings you guys were actually quite a bit worse than us, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by saying you had a pretty good team---you did by BS standards, not really by ours. The championship game was evidence of this, when the chips were down Winthrop won in a blowout.

I'm also not quite sure how you claim UNCA came out much better last year. WU won 2 out of the 3 meetings then, UNCA finished 10-8, WU 9-9, Pomeroy ratings had the teams separated by 4 spots.

I find your banter quite silly, you are UNCA fan---let's be realistic. You haven't competed on Winthrop's level in over a decade.

And if you can't comprehend my words then you need to go back and get a third degree. It's pretty simple what I'm stating. A dynasty doesn't end in a year and 3 games. We've won 8 titles in 11 years, with a 2 year lapse 5-6 years ago. It's going to take at least 3 years of keeping us out of the dance before you can open your mouth.

You are UNCA, I'm Winthrop. Now kiss my feet.

Again you focus on UNCA. Forget for a minute I'm 'uncafan' and just think of me as 'fan.' I've never claimed and will never claim that UNCA has the history or continued success that Winthrop has... And BTW your own athletic department claims those games as wins, not 'exhibitions' and yes I take that into account. It wasn't a scrimmage. Show up and play -- shoot don't show up and if your so mighty you should be winning by more than 6.

You want to say you were better than us for beating us 2/3 last year, I will apply the same logic and claim we were better 2 years ago. Can we settle that one? Or perhaps you'd rather I come back with "When the Chips were down last year, we beat you...We're the better team?" Come on Realist...You gotta be smarter than that.

So you were a game better last year... Umm, again, the question is how did the lowly feet-kissing UNCA Bulldogs out-recruit (or at least recruit on par with) mighty Winthrop? With your big-bad arena and your rich tradition of excellence.

Realist -- again, try reading other people's posts in their entirety -- your preaching to the choir about the history of the Big South over the past ten years. I never deny Winthrop's success -- what I have consistently said is in 2007/08 you guys were down from where you had been...Asheville happened to be up. In 2008/09 you guys weren't even close to competing for the conference title. And this year this is no reason to believe (i.e. everyone out side of Rock Hill sees no reason to believe) that Winthrop is back in a position to win the Conference again. I see a trend.

Can you reverse the trend? Sure... Do I think your going to? No. Do most of the "experts" and the Media types thing your going to? No. So we'll have to wait and see what happens... I suppose you would be one to tell me that USC still dominates the Pac-10 and that one bad season doesn't mean they aren't as dominant anymore?

P.S. glad we could entertain FF members, we will be here all weekend

[Cider Jim]

Thank God neither school has a football team, or this really could get ugly.

[Realist]

All your questions are answered in previous posts---if you don't understand, well, I can't help you, apparently you are too slow.

I'm just going to have to let you keep fantasizing for the weekend, as I'm out for awhile. You continue to make me laugh with your faulty logic and illusions though. Again, did Winthrop's dominance end in the two years they didn't win a title back 5-6 years ago? No, they just reloaded and then reeled off 4 straight. We've seen one season and 3 games since their last title. The dynasty hasn't ended, it's just following the normal cycle. I love you use USC as an illustration. You think they will be down for long???? My guess is that they'll win the PAC-10 next year. Every great program that is heads and shoulders above its conference mates has a down year or two as players naturally cycle through the program and the program has to introduce young guys all at the same time.

At your thanksgiving dinner, give thanks that you are in a conference with Winthrop. It must feel good to get to play royalty twice a year.

Have a good one!

[Maximus]

At your thanksgiving dinner, give thanks that you are in a conference with Winthrop. It must feel good to get to play royalty twice a year.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA thanks.. I needed that.

[Cider Jim]

At your thanksgiving dinner, give thanks that you are in a conference with Winthrop. It must feel good to get to play royalty twice a year.

That's why LU stays in the Big South: playing Winthrop twice a year is like having 2 Christmases.

[Schfourteenteen]

You are UNCA, I'm Winthrop. Now kiss my feet.

Be Careful!



You might get more than you barganed for.

[olldflame]

"Royalty"? Come on Sir Realist. I've been around long enough to know that Winthrop does NOT have a long and storied history as a great basketball program. Prior to 1999, they had won 1 BSC tournament championship and 0 regular season championships. many of those years they were doormats in a weak conference.

Winthrop had a decade of outstanding success beginning in 99, with 8 NCAA bids in 10 years. Hmm.........what changed in 98-99? It was a very good run, but if you want to delude yourself into believing that as a result of those 10 years, you now have a self-perpetuating basketball factory in Rock Hill, go right ahead. "Gregg who? Oh, he's just the guy who happened to be head coach here for a while. We can plug anyone we want in that job and the mighty WU dynasty will roll on." We'll see. Right now, it's not looking that way.

[uncafan]

At your thanksgiving dinner, give thanks that you are in a conference with Winthrop. It must feel good to get to play royalty twice a year.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA thanks.. I needed that.

wow, I honestly am still laughing out loud 3 minutes after I read that one.

Sorry you're bailing on our fine conversation Realist. And realist, give the education thing a rest my man.... Asheville is a MUCH better academic school than Winthrop, its not even close. Asheville is one of the top 20 Liberal Arts schools in the country and its the only public school that is annually rated that high. I know you guys are a "top southern university" every year -- but Asheville is recognized as one of the top in the country. We may have a lot of hippies, but they are really smart hippies.

OldFlame hits on a very valid point, Realist, again... That's what the USC analogy is about. I know that one went over your head. Maybe USC will win the pac-10 next year, but right now they are what 3rd or 4th best team in the conference? Sure maybe they come back -- but they didn't win it this year. And everybody (including Pete Carroll himself) is talking about how there isn't a gap between USC and the rest of the conference anymore. Just as you guys DIDN'T win an outright championship two years ago, and didn't even come close last year. Again, repeating myself for about the 4th time with no response. Winthrop isn't the defending champion, Winthrop is no longer the top dog in the conference

Whether its been 2 years or 10, once you fall off the top of the heap its your job to prove you belong back at the top (especially after you change coaches/bring in a new regime), Winthrop will have the opportunity to do that this season. But until then -- realize that you aren't the team to beat, not even 2nd... Take a look at the average polls and picks, 3-6th is where Winthrop is predicted to finish.

[Cider Jim]

Asheville...We may have a lot of hippies, but they are really smart hippies.

Gosh, I wish Fumble were still around to read this. That should be the school's new slogan.

[kingaling42]

Realist.. Err I mean Your Highness... I'm thankful we're not at the bottom of this list..

http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_bsou_Men.html

#324- now that's a legacy..

[Schfourteenteen]

Even though the RPI is useless now, that's awesome.

[JMUDukes]

UNCAfan, you can't be serious about the exhibition games...they don't count, no one cares, the committee doesn't look at them...it's like a pre-season game.

[LUconn]

Dude, it's not worth it. He will believe that till the day he dies.

[WinthropEagleFan]

Before the 2004-2008 run,

I will dispute the 2004 portion of your claim.

They simply have the name brand no one else can compete with.

Wow. This truly is a delusional claim. A name brand? Winthrop? I know, I know...you've won a couple of fluke games. Sorry, but no one playing middle school or high school basketball is dreaming of playing for any school in the Big South, including Winthrop.

A couple of fluke games? which ones were those?

[WinthropEagleFan]

Fair enough. I was just curious.

[kingaling42]

First, I don't believe WU had many fluke games during their run of championships- they were good.. I do know that UNCA was the only Big South school to knock them out of the tourney in those years..

So far as this "legacy" goes- I just don't see it right now, I certainly don't think that Peele's the guy, history seems to be repeating itself..

Realist.. You sound a lot like the UCLA folks to me- blindly ignorant to the fact that the landscape has changed.. I'm sure the folks at UCLA thought that Wooden if not replaceable per se, would have had a consistent successor, it just hasn't really worked out that way.. 8 different coaches now- they have success in their conference but they were used to NCAA championships year in & year out so don't even talk about conference results as they have done well in that area but that's not the standard of success for the Bruins.. The fact of the matter is that because of their past success in the 60s & 70s, heck even their championship in '95 the fan/alumni expectations are ridiculous- they get big time kids like Kevin Love, Westbrook, Collison, Farmar, Ariza, Barnes, and others who are all NBA players but even then in comparison to other traditional schools like UNC, Duke, Kansas, even Kentucky there are fewer NBA guy associated with UCLA than those others.. and Portland drilled them the other day in Anaheim Arena..

I think WU has great recruiting attributes for men's basketball due to..
1. Location near Charlotte
2. The overwhelming numbers of female students (73% female)
3. Facilities- $ is going in to refurbish several things currently
4. Recent success & championships- which produces some name recognition, but I get that myself with UNCA because people have heard of Kenny George even though he's not playing anymore- other Big South schools/alumni/students get their own feedback like that as well I'm sure..

Ongoing and current recruiting is going to hinge far more upon the dynamics of CURRENT success or style of play IMO.. WU touts itself as a defensive program and right now is primarily a half-court oriented team that is struggling to score- so how many upcoming stud offensive players who like to score and run are going to buy into WU current style of play? Faison left for those same reasons, plus he wasn't playing as much or whatever.. Do you think the recruits you had visiting at Homecoming this year left thinking "Wow!" or did they say something like "They almost lost to Limestone?".. whether it was an exhibition or regular season game doesn't much matter to a HS recruit when the school you're visiting struggles.. It does matter in that regard!

The question really boils down to.. Do you really think that WU is going to keep getting the Gregg Marshall type players when you're not playing Gregg Marshall type/tempo basketball any longer??

[Cider Jim]

Am I reading a John Wooden/Gregg Marshall parallel?