[GoUNCA]

Wow, you guys really have had this going. As a liberal outsider bent on destroying all rights and religion, I have to say that this issue really only has three points...

1. Tax status of Liberty University and student opportunity to federal student aid, mainly the latter. Keep in mind that Churches lose their tax status if they tell anyone how to vote. This isn't really new to anyone with a memory. Jerry had to pay the IRS $50,000 in 1993 for what happened in 1986 and 1987. The IRS is slow though, so if anything is done it won't effect the university in the immediate future.

2. The lack of a debate atmosphere that this brings up at Liberty University. But that doesn't really matter much, it just puts a big black eye on the university as far as academia goes. It doesn't matter much because you guys already have a bunch of black eyes so this really doesn't change that equation very much at all.

3. This really is a non-event as far as democrats go. They won Virginia without any of the counties in the Lynchburg area (although, they did win Roanoke city). Losing the democrat club at Liberty University is kind of like the republicans losing all the republicans at warren wilson college.

[JK37]

Wow, you guys really have had this going. As a liberal outsider bent on destroying all rights and religion, I have to say that this issue really only has three points...

1. Tax status of Liberty University and student opportunity to federal student aid, mainly the latter. Keep in mind that Churches lose their tax status if they tell anyone how to vote. This isn't really new to anyone with a memory. Jerry had to pay the IRS $50,000 in 1993 for what happened in 1986 and 1987. The IRS is slow though, so if anything is done it won't effect the university in the immediate future.

2. The lack of a debate atmosphere that this brings up at Liberty University. But that doesn't really matter much, it just puts a big black eye on the university as far as academia goes. It doesn't matter much because you guys already have a bunch of black eyes so this really doesn't change that equation very much at all.

3. This really is a non-event as far as democrats go. They won Virginia without any of the counties in the Lynchburg area (although, they did win Roanoke city). Losing the democrat club at Liberty University is kind of like the republicans losing all the republicans at warren wilson college.

1.The University is not directing its students in how to or for whom to vote. You must agree that this is not quite the same as what Dr. Falwell did from the TRBC pulpit in the mid-80's. Neither of us is experts, and you are right that the IRS is slow, but I don't forsee such blowback relating to this specific occurrence.

2.Right or wrong, the University has never been motivated by the opinions or traditions of secular academia. Whether or not you agree with it, UNCA, I'm glad you are at least able to recognize it. The University's administration wouldn't be doing a very could job if you couldn't tell the difference.

3.I believe it should have been a non-event for the Dems. It was puzzling to me, however, that McAuliffe (and Kaine to some extent as well) was so quick to respond. In fact, I theorize that both were aware of this before it broke last Friday, and were eager to pounce. I have no idea how to interpret such a possibility, other than that McAuliffe may be currently having more trouble in the state than his party predecessors.

[LUconn]

I am by no means saying it's never happened, but I would love for someone to show me an example of an organization losing it's tax exempt status because of one of these worthless law groups. Because I've heard of countless threats and suits against non-profit groups, but never of one actually losing it's status.

[GoUNCA]

I am by no means saying it's never happened, but I would love for someone to show me an example of an organization losing it's tax exempt status because of one of these worthless law groups. Because I've heard of countless threats and suits against non-profit groups, but never of one actually losing it's status.

It's a funny subject as it applies directly to churches. See the pierce creek church after they endorsed Clinton way back when. I don't know if it has ever happened directly to a university under this kind of thing. Bob Jones did lose their status over an intra-racial dating policy, which was of course racially motivated and had little to do with religion . You could also see the American Campaign Academy when they lost their status in a much more overt case.

So it has happened, just not exactly in this context.

[Jesus First]

WE all should be praying right now that Liberty doesnt have there tax exemption taken away by the IRS, If this were to happen it would hurt liberty more than you all think. I dont believe it will happen but with the extreme liberals we have in washington right now and the hate for the republicans its scary what are world is becoming, if your liberty right now keep standing up for christ and keep Jesus first and the Lord will take care of liberty, Unlike Norte dame who is allowing liberal principles to take over their campus, we are suppose to be transform by chirst and not conform to the world we live in, If your skeptical of the hatred for LU and the republican party click on this link and read the hundreds of article bashing Jerry falwell and Liberty. http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=na ... =en&tab=wn

[4everfsu]

I am not worried about the IRS taking away our tax exemption. Also not worried about what the world thinks of LU. As Dr. Falwell once said, "We are called to be faithful, not called to be popular."

[Hold My Own]

I am by no means saying it's never happened, but I would love for someone to show me an example of an organization losing it's tax exempt status because of one of these worthless law groups. Because I've heard of countless threats and suits against non-profit groups, but never of one actually losing it's status.

Yeah, IMO it's really only useful for Church's that cannot afford a lawyer....however they should know they could call Liberty Council

[Ed Dantes]

I am by no means saying it's never happened, but I would love for someone to show me an example of an organization losing it's tax exempt status because of one of these worthless law groups. Because I've heard of countless threats and suits against non-profit groups, but never of one actually losing it's status.

Yeah, IMO it's really only useful for Church's that cannot afford a lawyer....however they should know they could call Liberty Council

Or the ACLJ (hey, I had to give a plug).

[phoenix]

I am by no means saying it's never happened, but I would love for someone to show me an example of an organization losing it's tax exempt status because of one of these worthless law groups. Because I've heard of countless threats and suits against non-profit groups, but never of one actually losing it's status.

Yeah, IMO it's really only useful for Church's that cannot afford a lawyer....however they should know they could call Liberty Council

Seems like there were two churches in Florida that lost their tax-exempt status -- after they had Democratic leaders preach on Sunday morning prior to election, and told their congregations to vote for them. I wrote it up on my blog, if I can find the post now ....

[The Dude]

http://www.wset.com/news/stories/0609/628060.html

Lynchburg, VA - Liberty University (web) is fighting back against the group "Americans United for Separation of Church and State" or AU. Last week AU filed a complaint with the IRS, asking for an investigation into LU's tax-exempt status, after the school stripped the college's Democrats Club of its status.

On Monday, Liberty Counsel filed a similar complaint against AU. Liberty officials say the group only attacks conservative churches and non-profit organizations and that shows that "AU violates the same tax-exempt laws it pretends to uphold."

[The Dude]

June 1, 2009
www.LC.org

Washington, DC – Today Liberty Counsel filed a complaint with the IRS, asking the agency to investigate the tax-exempt status of Americans United for Separation of Church and State (“AU”). The complaint follows last week’s letter by AU against Liberty University. According to Jerry Falwell Jr., Chancellor and President of Liberty University, “When Americans United filed their frivolous complaint against Liberty University, we decided we had had enough of their malicious threats. We will not be intimated by this organization.”

AU is not concerned about truth. It is only concerned with getting its name in the media. Its statements are designed to intimidate, silence, and harm those with whom it disagrees. AU’s activity is both reckless and partisan. It is reckless because AU never investigates the accuracy of its alleged complaints. AU’s pattern of reckless disregard for the truth, coupled with its malicious intent to injure those with whom it disagrees, is patently obvious. While the IRS considers such complaints confidential and will not release information to the public pending such investigations, AU is only interested in getting its name in the media.

AU’s activity is politically partisan. AU has engaged in a consistent pattern of filing complaints against conservative churches and nonprofit organizations. Despite its knowledge of partisan activity carried on by liberal nonprofit organizations, AU remains silent. AU has become an arm of the Democratic Party. Churches or nonprofit organizations having anything to do with conservative causes or candidates are targets of AU. But churches or nonprofit organizations supporting liberal causes or Democratic policies or candidates are ignored by AU. Barry Lynn, the Executive Director of AU, sat in Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s church where then-presidential candidate Barack Obama spoke and politicked from the pulpit in 2008, and Lynn said nothing. Lynn is a member of the same United Church of Christ denomination.

Mathew D. Staver, Founder of Liberty Counsel and Dean of Liberty University School of Law, commented: “Americans United for Separation of Church and State wages its battle with smoke and mirrors, intimidation, and malicious threats. Its actions violate the same tax-exempt laws it pretends to uphold. Americans United is merely a façade for a liberal agenda and the Democratic Party. Americans United has become an arm of the Democratic Party. This group has never won an IRS complaint. It is a politically partisan organization, and the IRS ought to take a close look at its tax-exempt status. This group has crossed the line one too many times. We have asked the IRS to put a stop to these baseless threats.”

[matshark]

Wow, you guys really have had this going. As a liberal outsider bent on destroying all rights and religion, I have to say that this issue really only has three points...

Well at least you're honest about it...lol

That's more than we can say about AU...

[Hold My Own]

June 1, 2009
www.LC.org

Washington, DC – Today Liberty Counsel filed a complaint with the IRS, asking the agency to investigate the tax-exempt status of Americans United for Separation of Church and State (“AU”). The complaint follows last week’s letter by AU against Liberty University. According to Jerry Falwell Jr., Chancellor and President of Liberty University, “When Americans United filed their frivolous complaint against Liberty University, we decided we had had enough of their malicious threats. We will not be intimated by this organization.”

AU is not concerned about truth. It is only concerned with getting its name in the media. Its statements are designed to intimidate, silence, and harm those with whom it disagrees. AU’s activity is both reckless and partisan. It is reckless because AU never investigates the accuracy of its alleged complaints. AU’s pattern of reckless disregard for the truth, coupled with its malicious intent to injure those with whom it disagrees, is patently obvious. While the IRS considers such complaints confidential and will not release information to the public pending such investigations, AU is only interested in getting its name in the media.

AU’s activity is politically partisan. AU has engaged in a consistent pattern of filing complaints against conservative churches and nonprofit organizations. Despite its knowledge of partisan activity carried on by liberal nonprofit organizations, AU remains silent. AU has become an arm of the Democratic Party. Churches or nonprofit organizations having anything to do with conservative causes or candidates are targets of AU. But churches or nonprofit organizations supporting liberal causes or Democratic policies or candidates are ignored by AU. Barry Lynn, the Executive Director of AU, sat in Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s church where then-presidential candidate Barack Obama spoke and politicked from the pulpit in 2008, and Lynn said nothing. Lynn is a member of the same United Church of Christ denomination.

Mathew D. Staver, Founder of Liberty Counsel and Dean of Liberty University School of Law, commented: “Americans United for Separation of Church and State wages its battle with smoke and mirrors, intimidation, and malicious threats. Its actions violate the same tax-exempt laws it pretends to uphold. Americans United is merely a façade for a liberal agenda and the Democratic Party. Americans United has become an arm of the Democratic Party. This group has never won an IRS complaint. It is a politically partisan organization, and the IRS ought to take a close look at its tax-exempt status. This group has crossed the line one too many times. We have asked the IRS to put a stop to these baseless threats.”

[4everfsu]

Looks like the LU Dem club still has a hard time coming up with an apology. Also nice they will not endorse dem candidiates in the future, they also want the repub club to do the same. What a joke!

http://www.newsadvance.com/lna/news/loc ... ion/16443/

[Hold My Own]

Get out of here! They dont want to endorse anyone? Maybe b/c they know they will not be able to keep their word on endorsing someone who represents what LU stands for. Like I said on page 3, there is no way they are just going to sit out and not endorse someone if they cant find someone that is LU approved.

[Cider Jim]

Liberty, Democrats club in negotiations

By Christa Desrets
Published: June 16, 2009

Liberty University administrators are negotiating terms for reinstating school recognition of the campus College Democrats club after receiving a proposal and apology...

http://www.newsadvance.com/lna/news/loc ... ons/16886/

[Kolzilla41]

Is it me or does the article make Ms. Childress sound like she has a good amount of comtempt for the university's administration?

[4everfsu]

I read it the same way. Seems like she cannot own up to the truth she told a lie.

[JDUB]

I have read in more than one place where she said she had nothing to apologize for because she had done nothing wrong. I can't remember where now, and it may have been deleted because i know several blogs and such have been edited in an attempt to be reinstated..

I feel bad for the kids in this club though. They need a new sponsor who wants to help them out, not get media and promote themselves..

[JK37]

Ms. Childress' attitude throughout harkens back to the theme of many pages of this thread:

One is simply a lazy fool if they are in the employ of LU, and they are not aware of what LU has been, what it currently is, and for what it and its administration stand.

[01LUGrad]

I've stayed out of this one, but after reading the story on the virginian pilot web site a few minutes ago, I really wanted to throw up. This casts such a negative light on LU. The only way they were able to jump-start negotiations was to state that they wouldn't endorse a candidate? Really? If there is a Democratic club on campus and they can't endorse a candidate, it is pure stupidity. I get the abortion thing. I am as pro-life as they come. That doesn't mean they can't stand for other things. There are pleanty of decent things the Dems stand for that aren't even close to being morally wrong. Do I agree with them? No. Do I think the university needs to agree with them? No. None of that meeans that they shouldn't have a chance to voice their opinion.

[4everfsu]

Don't worry. Once you throw up you will feel better.

[ToTheLeft]

None of that meeans that they shouldn't have a chance to voice their opinion.

I agree this has been handled terribly, but how does taking away club status take away their opinion? They all have facebooks, if they have an opinion it will spread soon enough anyways. Taking away their club isn't muting them.

[LUconn]

The point is to wash their hands of being associated with an organization whose parent is pro abortion. And that's what they've done.

[Schfourteenteen]

From the We support LU Dems group

It has come to our attention that the administration has come up with a proposal for us to remove Maria Childress as our club sponsor.

After meeting as a club, and discussing the proposal, we have decided to keep Maria Childress as our sponsor.

Attached below is the response/apology to the Administration from Maria Childress, our club sponsor.

We hope to continue working with the administration to be a fully recognized club on campus, and further continue to glorify the message of Christ.

Thanks again,

Brian Diaz

“I am writing to follow up on our May 27 meeting and our ongoing attempts for the Liberty University College Democrats to regain its official status as a fully recognized student organization. I am writing to you in the spirit of cooperation with the hope that we can find a peaceable way to resolve this difficult situation.

First of all, I apologize for the misunderstanding of the media that our club was banned from campus. We said that our club had been revoked its official club standing as stated in VP Hine’s email “I must inform you that the College democrats’ club is no longer going to be recognized as a Liberty University club.” We were mistaken about our ability to use Liberty University’s facilities to hold our regular LUCD meetings. Mark Hine’s initial email stated that “no student club or organization shall be approved, recognized or permitted to meet on campus, advertise, distribute or post materials, or use University facilities…” if the organization is found to be in conflict with the mission of the University. Right or wrong, many who read this email came to the conclusion that we could not meet on school property. We acknowledge that VP Hine suggested we meet in the Dining Hall or at Tilley, but we would not be able to formally organize a meeting.

As a practical matter, we believe it to be logistically impossible to function as a student group without the ability to reserve space on campus for our meetings. We would never be guaranteed of using the same room more than once, and it would be difficult to issue meeting notices to our members without a regular location, especially as the size of our organization grows beyond what can be accommodated in the common areas. This remains a major hurdle to functioning as an unendorsed club.

There was also concern over the media’s characterization that Liberty University officials believe you cannot be both a Christian and a Democrat. We are fully aware that this is not the position of the administration, and none of our members or I have ever quoted such information to the press. However, Mr. Hine’s initial email stated that “the Democratic Party Platform is contrary to the mission of LU and to Christian doctrine”. This sweeping statement followed by references to issues such as “socialism” and “hate crimes” is largely what we believe caused the media to make certain assumptions about the position of the administration. Fortunately, you have sufficiently corrected the record on this point through Chancellor Falwell’s various public statements. VP Hine has further stated in a personal email as well as on the Public Radio show that it would have been best to say “these things were contrary to scripture as opposed to Christian doctrine.”

We fully understand that partisan groups should be handled differently than other student clubs or ministry organizations. However, we do not believe it is unreasonable to expect to be treated as equals with the College Republicans. We are committed to open political discourse on this campus. We recognize and embrace the rich Christian heritage of the University and in no way do we want to tarnish that legacy.

We are offering the following proposal to resolve the current impasse:

Liberty University College Democrats will regain its status as an officially recognized club, with all rights and privileges, and responsibilities that other clubs have.
LUCD will continue to explicitly state that they are pro-life out of personal conviction and respect for the University and what it stands for.
LUCD will take no funds from the SGA budget. We would further suggest that the University adopt Matthew McCain’s suggestion for a tiered club status where the College Democrats and Republicans would function under identical funding rules.
LUCD shall maintain the ability to select the faculty or staff advisor of its choice.
LUCD will not endorse any candidate; however, we will provide educational and volunteer opportunities for members and the student body for Democratic candidates during the election cycle.
Although LUCD will not endorse any candidate, LUCD will be permitted to hold tables and events for all Democratic campaigns that are looking to identify volunteers or pass out literature on their campaigns. At these tables or events, a disclaimer will be read or posted. The specific text of the disclaimer is in section 7.
The text of the disclaimer shall be: "The Liberty University College Democrats does not officially endorse any candidates. While the organization does not endorse candidates, individuals are free to personally endorse or support any candidates they see fit."
This disclaimer shall be read before any public event occurs where candidate information is given. This disclaimer shall also be printed, in a clearly legible manner, on any flyers for an event being held on behalf of a campaign.
Individual members and officers shall be free to endorse, campaign for, or discuss any candidate of their choosing. Members shall be warned not to appear to offer any kind of endorsement of the College Democrats for a campaign. Members shall ensure that any public endorsements of a campaign cannot be interpreted as an endorsement on behalf of the club. Members should refrain from using the Liberty University College Democrats' name when working on behalf of a campaign. This in no way states that a student may not identify where they attend school; it only states that the member may not say or imply that they are working on behalf of an official campus organization.
LUCD reserves the right to continue to charter with the Young Democrats of American and Virginia Young Democrats. These organizations have in no way objected to the statements within our constitution that we are pro-life and pro traditional marriage. (Incidentally, YDA is a 527 political committee that has no official affiliation or financial connection with the Democratic National Committee.)

The Liberty University Young Democrats will unapologetically defend the rights of the unborn, and we will clearly communicate our position to Democratic candidates and elected officials. However, we take a broader view when it comes to the “seamless garment of life,” and we will seek to affect change through avenues that are most readily available. LUCD will pledge its support to a pro-life and pro-traditional form of marriage and would like conduct no less than one event each semester that promotes the message of one of these agendas. Such as our planned Sanctity of Life week in the fall.

We remain hopeful that we can reach a compromise with you regarding our status as an officially recognized organization on campus. We look forward to continuing this important dialogue with you.”

Maria Childress