[olldflame]

While Calapari may not fit the mold of your traditional, rock-solid "lifer", his resume does not indicate he is that much of a bounce-around guy. Up til 2 days ago he had 3 jobs in 21 years. He left UMass to try the NBA with the Nets. He was actually fired there after less than 2 years, and went to Memphis. As far as college is concerned, he spent 19 years at 2 places. I don't think I need to tell anyone that is well above the average in college coaching.

[belcherboy]

While Calapari may not fit the mold of your traditional, rock-solid "lifer", his resume does not indicate he is that much of a bounce-around guy. Up til 2 days ago he had 3 jobs in 21 years. He left UMass to try the NBA with the Nets. He was actually fired there after less than 2 years, and went to Memphis. As far as college is concerned, he spent 19 years at 2 places. I don't think I need to tell anyone that is well above the average in college coaching.

That's fine, but do you think he told players and fans he was "fully" dedicated to the program? Should his integrity be in question for leaving Memphis, or is it alright as long as you stay X amount of years?

[LUconn]

I did not say he was Judas. I'm saying you guys apparently would say "can't fault a man for bettering himself" to anybody. If somebody is saying to your face over and over and over the same thing, a thing that is above money and prestige, and then as soon as either of those are presented to him he does cartwheels to go against his word, I'm not gonna sit here and say "you go McKay! I'm not gonna be a hater! I'd do the same thing!" Where is your breaking point as to what you'll excuse? This isn't about bettering yourself. This is about character and integrity. We shouldn't cheer on those who are displaying that they don't have any just because they're coming out on top.

Why bring up Judas then? People who are bitter bring up the "worst case scenario" when arguing IMO. I can't stand when people bring up Hitler or Judas in discussing something as trivial as a sports coach. Sorry, just a pet peave of mine, nothing personal.

I don't know why he did what he did, but I can't question his integrity. I've seen people come and go from every business I've worked in (including ministry). People who seemed FULLY dedicated to what they were doing, and claimed dedication, but when does it become alright when someone you depend on leaves? If he continues to say the same thing but leaves 5 years later, does he keep his character and integrity?

To me this feels like the dumped boyfriend/girlfriend. We felt the relationship was great, and then we get dumped for someone else. Just my outside perspective.

It's called hyperbole. You use the extreme case scenario to make your point effectively. I started using Cain because Judas is somewhat cliche, but Judas did it for the money so it was very parallel. From everything you've just said, I don't see why you can't question his integrity. It's like you're trying to hard to take some kind of high road you'll just excuse and ignore anything that happened. It's not the end of the world but what happened also isn't right. And we shouldn't be afraid to say that.

[belcherboy]

I did not say he was Judas. I'm saying you guys apparently would say "can't fault a man for bettering himself" to anybody. If somebody is saying to your face over and over and over the same thing, a thing that is above money and prestige, and then as soon as either of those are presented to him he does cartwheels to go against his word, I'm not gonna sit here and say "you go McKay! I'm not gonna be a hater! I'd do the same thing!" Where is your breaking point as to what you'll excuse? This isn't about bettering yourself. This is about character and integrity. We shouldn't cheer on those who are displaying that they don't have any just because they're coming out on top.

Why bring up Judas then? People who are bitter bring up the "worst case scenario" when arguing IMO. I can't stand when people bring up Hitler or Judas in discussing something as trivial as a sports coach. Sorry, just a pet peave of mine, nothing personal.

I don't know why he did what he did, but I can't question his integrity. I've seen people come and go from every business I've worked in (including ministry). People who seemed FULLY dedicated to what they were doing, and claimed dedication, but when does it become alright when someone you depend on leaves? If he continues to say the same thing but leaves 5 years later, does he keep his character and integrity?

To me this feels like the dumped boyfriend/girlfriend. We felt the relationship was great, and then we get dumped for someone else. Just my outside perspective.

It's called hyperbole. You use the extreme case scenario to make your point effectively. I started using Cain because Judas is somewhat cliche, but Judas did it for the money so it was very parallel. From everything you've just said, I don't see why you can't question his integrity. It's like you're trying to hard to take some kind of high road you'll just excuse and ignore anything that happened. It's not the end of the world but what happened also isn't right. And we shouldn't be afraid to say that.

Thanks for the lesson, but it is a TERRIBLE use of hyperbole. Taking the most hated person in the history of the world, and comparing him to a former head basketball coach. Again, if it makes you feel better, than go for it.

My question is, when could McKay leave and keep his integrity? Does he have to tell everyone in advance he is leaving? Does he have to retire from Liberty to keep his integrity in tact? Would 5 years have made it better? Perhaps finishing his contract with us? How about guys like Calipari, is his integrity shot? I'm sure he told players and fans alike that he was "dedicated" to the Memphis program on many occasions? How do you think McKay should have handled himself here if he wanted to leave?

[SuperJon]

There is a huge and extremely significant difference in these two statements:


I want to be at Liberty for the rest of my life.


I want to turn Liberty into a championship program.


You say the first, you better stay here at least five years.

You say the second, you can leave when you're successful and we won't think twice about it.

[olldflame]

While Calapari may not fit the mold of your traditional, rock-solid "lifer", his resume does not indicate he is that much of a bounce-around guy. Up til 2 days ago he had 3 jobs in 21 years. He left UMass to try the NBA with the Nets. He was actually fired there after less than 2 years, and went to Memphis. As far as college is concerned, he spent 19 years at 2 places. I don't think I need to tell anyone that is well above the average in college coaching.

That's fine, but do you think he told players and fans he was "fully" dedicated to the program? Should his integrity be in question for leaving Memphis, or is it alright as long as you stay X amount of years?

I wasn't commenting on his integrity or lack thereof, just that I didn't think he belongs on the same list as someone like Larry Brown when it comes to bouncing around. Personally, I can't fault him for any of the moves he made. He wanted to try his hand in the NBA. Then he got fired. Then he got back into college coaching at Memphis and built their program up over almost a 10 year period before leaving to become the highest paid college coach in history at a legendary program. Unlike others, I think it's safe to say that Calapari never presented himself as viewing basketball as anything but a business.

[LUconn]

are you seriously comparing our situation to Memphis? I don't think I can continue arguing if you don't see the difference between Liberty and Memphis.

[olldflame]

are you seriously comparing our situation to Memphis? I don't think I can continue arguing if you don't see the difference between Liberty and Memphis.

Was that for me or belcher boy? I'm not. I was just disputing his assertion that Calapari is a coach who bounces around. It was off topic

[LUconn]

no it was for belcher.

[belcherboy]

While Calapari may not fit the mold of your traditional, rock-solid "lifer", his resume does not indicate he is that much of a bounce-around guy. Up til 2 days ago he had 3 jobs in 21 years. He left UMass to try the NBA with the Nets. He was actually fired there after less than 2 years, and went to Memphis. As far as college is concerned, he spent 19 years at 2 places. I don't think I need to tell anyone that is well above the average in college coaching.

That's fine, but do you think he told players and fans he was "fully" dedicated to the program? Should his integrity be in question for leaving Memphis, or is it alright as long as you stay X amount of years?

Unlike others, I think it's safe to say that Calapari never presented himself as viewing basketball as anything but a business.

That is a GOOD call! I'm sure that is the biggest BEEF with McKay! Unfortunately Liberty pretty much FORCES a spiritual spin on everything it does. If a basketball coach is here, he better be here because God called him here. I'm not saying that McKay was forced to make any of the statements he made, but it almost always seems like that has to be the reason a coach comes to Liberty.

IMO opinion it was a NO win situation at Liberty for a successful coach leaving! I'm sure McKay didn't handle it right by the comments I've read from those close to the situation, but again, this is a business, so I'm not going to be too critical. That is just me though!

[belcherboy]

are you seriously comparing our situation to Memphis? I don't think I can continue arguing if you don't see the difference between Liberty and Memphis.

Are you seriously comparing him to Judas? C'mon now, why don't you answer the question. When could McKay have left with integrity in tact in your opinion?

[SuperJon]

IMO opinion it was a NO win situation at Liberty for a successful coach leaving!

That's not true at all. If Carey Green left, we would be hurt but would support him. If Shane Pinder left, we'd hate it but we would support him. If Danny Rocco left, we would hate it but we would support him. It's all about how you handle yourself while you're here. You can say "I love Liberty. It's great here." and then leave at a better opportunity and we won't crucify you. However, if you say, "I feel like I'm called to be here the rest of my life. I hope my kids can go here" and then leave the next week because your calling all of a sudden changed, I'm sorry but we're gonna be a little angry.

[belcherboy]

IMO opinion it was a NO win situation at Liberty for a successful coach leaving!

That's not true at all. If Carey Green left, we would be hurt but would support him. If Shane Pinder left, we'd hate it but we would support him. If Danny Rocco left, we would hate it but we would support him. It's all about how you handle yourself while you're here. You can say "I love Liberty. It's great here." and then leave at a better opportunity and we won't crucify you. However, if you say, "I feel like I'm called to be here the rest of my life. I hope my kids can go here" and then leave the next week because your calling all of a sudden changed, I'm sorry but we're gonna be a little angry.

Again, bad statement to say he would be here the "rest of his life", did you REALLY expect him to fulfill that? I mean, taking that statement literally, could he EVER leave?

I was shocked he came here in the first place. I am much less shocked he left so soon. That is just an outsiders perspective though.

[Schfourteenteen]

However, if you say, "I feel like I'm called to be here the rest of my life. I hope my kids can go here" and then leave the next week because your calling all of a sudden changed, I'm sorry but we're gonna be a little angry.

Was it actually a whole week?

[Kolzilla41]

IMO opinion it was a NO win situation at Liberty for a successful coach leaving!

That's not true at all. If Carey Green left, we would be hurt but would support him. If Shane Pinder left, we'd hate it but we would support him. If Danny Rocco left, we would hate it but we would support him. It's all about how you handle yourself while you're here. You can say "I love Liberty. It's great here." and then leave at a better opportunity and we won't crucify you. However, if you say, "I feel like I'm called to be here the rest of my life. I hope my kids can go here" and then leave the next week because your calling all of a sudden changed, I'm sorry but we're gonna be a little angry.

Again, bad statement to say he would be here the "rest of his life", did you REALLY expect him to fulfill that? I mean, taking that statement literally, could he EVER leave?

Why not. Is it too far fetched to see him retiring here in 20 years? People, wether Christian or not, hold Christians to a higher standard and when you say "Hey, I'm gonna do x" you can't go with y. He SHOULD have said "I would like to be here for a while and help this program" , but he didn't. That is why everyone is upset. Not only that but his previous exits should have clued us into this.

[SuperJon]

Did I expect him to be here forever? No, I didn't. However, I expected him to at least win something before he left. Yes, we had one of our best seasons in school history, but we still finished third place and lost in the semis. If he brought us a Big South Championship and then left, sure, no problem at all. Bolting after two seasons without a championship, nope.

[Schfourteenteen]

Again, bad statement to say he would be here the "rest of his life", did you REALLY expect him to fulfill that? I mean, taking that statement literally, could he EVER leave?

I expected him to be here longer than 7 days.

[belcherboy]

Did I expect him to be here forever? No, I didn't. However, I expected him to at least win something before he left. Yes, we had one of our best seasons in school history, but we still finished third place and lost in the semis. If he brought us a Big South Championship and then left, sure, no problem at all. Bolting after two seasons without a championship, nope.

So integrity is measured by success? It is "ok" if he had won a championship, but because he didn't his integrity is gone?

[SuperJon]

Again, bad statement to say he would be here the "rest of his life", did you REALLY expect him to fulfill that? I mean, taking that statement literally, could he EVER leave?

I expected him to be here longer than 7 days.

At least more than five.

[belcherboy]

That's not true at all. If Carey Green left, we would be hurt but would support him. If Shane Pinder left, we'd hate it but we would support him. If Danny Rocco left, we would hate it but we would support him. It's all about how you handle yourself while you're here. You can say "I love Liberty. It's great here." and then leave at a better opportunity and we won't crucify you. However, if you say, "I feel like I'm called to be here the rest of my life. I hope my kids can go here" and then leave the next week because your calling all of a sudden changed, I'm sorry but we're gonna be a little angry.

Again, bad statement to say he would be here the "rest of his life", did you REALLY expect him to fulfill that? I mean, taking that statement literally, could he EVER leave?

Why not. Is it too far fetched to see him retiring here in 20 years? People, wether Christian or not, hold Christians to a higher standard and when you say "Hey, I'm gonna do x" you can't go with y. He SHOULD have said "I would like to be here for a while and help this program" , but he didn't. That is why everyone is upset. Not only that but his previous exits should have clued us into this.

Again, he messed up by saying he would be here for his entire career, but take a step back. It's a basketball system where this happens EVERY year in the NCAA and NBA. Why would we think it would not happen here? I can understand being disappointed, but upset? He gave us GREAT exposure and a winning team. I would be more upset by what he left us with, as opposed to him leaving. Maybe that is why people are so upset?

[Schfourteenteen]

Again, he messed up by saying he would be here for his entire career, but take a step back. It's a basketball system where this happens EVERY year in the NCAA and NBA. Why would we think it would not happen here? I can understand being disappointed, but upset? He gave us GREAT exposure and a winning team. I would be more upset by what he left us with, as opposed to him leaving. Maybe that is why people are so upset?

He messed up by saying he loved Liberty and wanted to stay here for a while, then ditched the entire program 5 days later.

Find me a coach who is not a scumbag who has done that.

[olldflame]

Count me among those who feel the Judas/Hitler references are way over the top and inappropriate. First of all, they really aren't accurate. Second, and perhaps more importantly, there are certain words you don't use, even in hyperbole. They are legally referred to as inflammitory language, or even "fighting words". A racial slur beginning with "n" comes to mind. We can get our point across with plenty of force without going there.

[belcherboy]

Count me among those who feel the Judas/Hitler references are way over the top and inappropriate. First of all, they really aren't accurate. Second, and perhaps more importantly, there are certain words you don't use, even in hyperbole. They are legally referred to as inflammitory language, or even "fighting words". A racial slur beginning with "n" comes to mind. We can get our point across with plenty of force without going there.

I REALLY didn't care about this argument, and understood hurt feelings by many until this was brought up. I TOTALLY agree with you and felt like it was inappropriate as well. That is the only reason I jumped on this like I have.

I don't think LUConn meant it that way, but regardless I too believe it was a foolish use of hyperbole.

[Cider Jim]

Comments from the locals (including Barber): http://www.wset.com/news/stories/0409/609536.html

[Covert Hawk]

Barber is actually going to the Final Four in Detroit this weekend to start looking for a new coach.

http://www.wset.com/news/stories/0409/609536.html

Come back with Roy Williams, Please!