[scuzdriver]

Eric Gordon was selected by the Suns as well but that was a last round Mr Irrelevant type of thing. Cliff was selected by the Celtics before trying to make it as a tight end at Carson Neuman. I always liked Cliff as a player but we were DII back then and its hard to compare.

It should be noted also that Cliff was selected in the 4th round of the NBA draft, which of course no longer exists. I wouldn't go so far as to say he wasn't on the same level as the players from the D1 era though. He had monumental battles with Jerome Kersey of Longwood, who went on to have a long NBA career.

I believe Cliff was the final cut from the Celtics. Due to them signing Bill Walton. Bad timing for Cliffy.

[GOAT]

Considering I played with probably the most talent in LU history and competed against way tougher competition and schedules I would have to admit Aluma (when he was right) was/is the most prolific big man/best player to come thru the big south. If Marcus White played under a different system and not under the blocker mover system where the big man always had to touch the ball on each posession would be in the NBA right now regardless of his Academic downfall. Larry Blair was a really good scorer but he along with Chris Caldwell and Curry are too one dimensional. White's skill set and the fact he made everyone else better trumps these other talented flames.

I won't even mention my self in the category as we are comparing apples and oranges in regards to my shot attempts compared to Blair, Caldwell, Curry etc...If there was a category for Best Players who were the most efficient then I would put myself in the top 5.

[ALUmnus]

HE'S BACK!!

[olldflame]

Good to hear from the GOAT. Marcus was definately a talent. If he had been healthy for the final in 97, I have absolutely no doubt there would be another banner hanging in the Vines. For the younguns around here who might want a player to compare him with......think Rajon Rondo.

[Sly Fox]

I was in Big D the other day and thought of you in context of this thread. Don't be such a stranger.

[TIMSCAR20]

Going by GOAT's criteria I would have to say Bailey is the most efficient player in school history. He too just as many shots as Curry/Blair/Caldwell but shot over 50% and believe me, people tried to guard him like they guard Curry now. People who don't think Curry should be on the 1st team are just looking at numbers because until you have had 5 guys guarding you at once you will never know how hard it is to average 20 points per game over a season. That said, BA averaged 26.5 and shot over 50% FG for his career! Plus Bailey wasn't even close to being a good outside shooter. He was simply unstoppable. When we played "name teams" they tended to play us straight up and BA would go for 36 like it was nothing. I really didn't blossom until my Jr and Sr years when I finally got the playing time I deserved but I have been a guy that no one guarded and it was easy to score and I have been the guy with Bailey that they picked up when we left the bench face guarding us.

I can second everything LJ said about Marco. He was incredible. It is funny how we are both selecting our backcourt mates though. I halfway expect Chris Toomer to come on here and talk about Hildo next Seriously though it is hard to bring Marcus White into the discussion unless you saw him play.

As far as pure talent and not looking at stats, tenure or legacy my all time 6 is:

Brewington
Alston
Nwosu
Marco
Carl Willliams (Hanky Years)
Darryl Williams (1994)

[Hold My Own]

Hey I'll fight for Hildo any day!

White was a phenom but I put Cald in that same league...both if under different circumstances could still be playing today

[paradox]

Marcus White and Larry Jackson were both outstanding players. But I'd still give the edge to Hildebrand. Hildo never really had a bakcourt mate who could score or make plays effectively, and yet he still got the job done, and found ways to win big games. He's LU's all-time D1 guy for assists, 3pt%, and FT shooting. A hardnosed playmaker/scorer, what more could you ask for in a guard. And for what it's worth, I watched the '94 conference championship game with a former A-10 guard and Big East scout. After watching Hildebrand make play after play, he turned to me and said, "a player like that only comes along once in a lifetime for a school like Liberty."

Having said that, what do you think Curry will be after it's all said and done? I mean, technically, the guy's still gonna be 18 when he matricules into his sophomore year next August. Getting double and triple teamed as an 18yr old on an undersized team ain't too shaby, especially when you help guide your young team to 22 wins. Extremely, unprecidented by LU terms, if you ask me

[dompennix]

My Dad use to play with most the players throught the 90s. He said Cliff wasn't that good, he doesnt see how he got drafted. Aluma was great. But Bailey is the best LU player he has ever played with. Although my dad said he rained jumpers in Bailey face ...sure dad

[dompennix]

And Larry Jackson was also one of my dads favs

[grm]

I missed Bailey, watched Marcus there & here at Biola, and thought Aluma was a monster. I also claim to have scouted &
selected LJ, who I saw as phenomenal, as was Brew. Blair did a whole lot with every other team gearing up for him, and they still couldn't stop him.

Having said that, I have no idea who was the greatest.

[olldflame]

I think I just learned something new. Marcus played at Biola after he left LU?

[grm]

Yes. He was at Biola, along with (I think) Gabe Calwell, and, possibly a year later, Brian Weakley. Weakley, of course, became the featured 3 point shooter, and Marcus had a great mini-career here.

[olldflame]

I liked Gabe Calwell's game too, although he was not on the level of Marcus IMHO. 6'3" 2 guard who could take it to the hole and had one of the best jump stops I've seen.

[grm]

That all goes back to some stuff that I never completely understood or delved into, but Marcus obiously and unfortunately did not complete his time at LU. When it came to Weakley, it may be that he was not given a good look here, and I can't remember if was grades + for Marcus or what. I guess I knew once, but the memory has faded....

Too bad. Anyway, there was a bit of a LU pipeline to Biola at one time. Shane Rinner was hired there, who, of course, is now at UAA, with Weakley with him as an assistant coach.

Funny how this whole D-1 thing spins around.

[Sly Fox]

Please, I beg of you in advance no Gabe stories.