[ATrain]

I'm very supportive of Concealed Carry Permits being honored on campus. These are responsible individuals and they should not be withheld from their right to carry. LUPD and even Lynch. PD can't be everywhere, so it would be great to have some other trained handgun holders on campus to protect us.

-Sigh-

The only thing I will say on this topic... is people who give these feel good statements really close out a lot of other facts that have to do with allowing people to carry guns on campus. It's not all about "The police can't be everywhere", which honestly isn't very good logic to begin with.

Just realize what you support when you put more and more guns in more and more places...

Less crime

[JDUB]

yeah you support people being scared to rob you cause they know they gonna get shot, instead of knowing no one on campus is armed so they can create a diversion on one end of campus to get LUPD all over there, then start slaying on the other end

if you aren't worried about getting shot at walmart, then you ought not be worried about getting shot at LU if this passes. you are around people every day carrying guns and don't know it, and you are fine.

[SuperJon]

I'm sorry, I can't get behind legally allowing guns on a college campus. The instability of kids our age during finals, breakups, fights with friends, fights with parents, etc is just too much for me to be ok with guns being legally readily available. Yes, I know you're going to argue they have to pass a psych test and all of that but that's a cop out. Anyone can pass a psych test when their mind is right. Also, who's to say Jonny Gun Carrier's room mate isn't going to be psycho and won't take Jonny's gun and do something stupid with it.

[Rocketfan]

I'm sorry, I can't get behind legally allowing guns on a college campus. The instability of kids our age during finals, breakups, fights with friends, fights with parents, etc is just too much for me to be ok with guns being legally readily available. Yes, I know you're going to argue they have to pass a psych test and all of that but that's a cop out. Anyone can pass a psych test when their mind is right. Also, who's to say Jonny Gun Carrier's room mate isn't going to be psycho and won't take Jonny's gun and do something stupid with it.

to back Jon up...would anyone hear honestly want (you have a few choices from the board) to have a gun on campus ....yea, case closed.

[Hunt'n Hunny]

Two comments:
1. Yes - I want to have a gun on campus. I'd carry and you'd never know it.
2. How many students living on campus are 21? That is the minimum age for CHP holders. We are talking mostly about faculty/staff and adult learners who are living off campus and are already carrying safely and legally all over Lynchburg.

[SuperJon]

Liberty is a school where people live on campus until they graduate in a lot of cases. We're also a school that seems to have quite a few 21-year old sophomores because they take time off, they transfer from other schools, or something like that. Quite a few 21 year olds live on campus.

[JDUB]

Liberty University will consider whether to allow concealed weapon permit holders to carry guns on campus at its next board of trustees meeting, Chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. said Thursday.

Falwell said he decided to bring the matter before the board for discussion after a group of LU students requested it. The next board of trustees meeting is in March.

http://www.newsadvance.com/lna/news/loc ... mpus/9251/

[RagingTireFire]

yeah you support people being scared to rob you cause they know they gonna get shot, instead of knowing no one on campus is armed so they can create a diversion on one end of campus to get LUPD all over there, then start slaying on the other end

I'm not even sure what this sentence is supposed to mean. In any event, unless somebody's robbing you from 20 feet away, they'd be all over you before you ever got the gun out to defend yourself.

you are around people every day carrying guns and don't know it, and you are fine.

I'm fine because the people around me carrying guns aren't college kids who think they can quick-draw out of any situation.

Quite honestly, I'm not opposed to concealed carry in general but if college kids are going to get to start packing heat on campus, I'm keeping my alumni at home. I wouldn't even think of coming back to another on-campus function ever again and I certainly would not bring my family.

[RagingTireFire]

^^

[JDUB]

if you read the article you'd see he isn't supporting it, he is just taking it before the board for discussion. i highly doubt it gets beyond discussion

[Schfourteenteen]

How much crime do we really have on LU to begin with? Not being naive but the numbers have to be much lower than other schools. Either way, there is no need for it.

Even if it was passed, tell me how they could monitor who brings guns in? How could they keep people with guns who shouldnt be on campus? Its not possible. If you really think having a gun makes you safer here, you got problems.

[JDUB]

once again, people break the rules and have guns on campus all the time. this would provide a way for someone to do it legally and in a safer manner.

its not a matter of crime numbers, its just making a legal option for something that should not be outlawed in the first place

[Hold My Own]

The NRA provide's stats showing crime prevention b/c of people carrying a concealed weapon, and how many people with a concealed weapon actually commit crimes. They are interesting stats.....I think it pretty much boils down to if you're a gun supporter then you have no problem with this, but if you're not then you dont. Very few have NO problem with guns or people getting their concealed license but still refuse to consider them to carry on campus.



I will say this though, LUPD has one of the largest armed campus police forces in country. So if there is any campus to not push the issue it could be LU and I wouldnt have a problem.

[SuperJon]

Very few have NO problem with guns or people getting their concealed license but still refuse to consider them to carry on campus.

I guess I'm part of that very few.

[ATrain]

The State of Utah allows it...you don't hear about BYU, Utah, Utah State or Southern Utah being dangerous campuses.

[ToTheLeft]

The State of Utah allows it...you don't hear about BYU, Utah, Utah State or Southern Utah being dangerous campuses.

Find a statistic that says there is less crime at Utah schools than there is here, even tho the demographics there are totally different and it's almost apples to oranges, please, find a stat that says there is less crime.

The reason you don't hear about them being dangerous campuses is that you wouldn't usually hear about Utah on the news, it's a relatively irrelevant state in terms of big time news reports.

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

They are all mormon pansies.

[RagingTireFire]

once again, people break the rules and have guns on campus all the time. this would provide a way for someone to do it legally and in a safer manner.

its not a matter of crime numbers, its just making a legal option for something that should not be outlawed in the first place

I fail to see the logic in this statement. You don't change the rules just because someone is already breaking them. That's like making DUI or sexual assault legal just because "people do it all the time". As for what's currently "outlawed", correct me if I'm wrong, but college campuses are private property and the owners of said property can make just about whatever restrictions or "outlaw" anything they want on their land.

As for Utah colleges, a quick look at campus crime statistics (available here) shows that crime levels at Liberty and all of the mentioned schools in Utah are pretty much the same already. With such a low existing crime rate, I don't see how concealed carry would improve the safety situation at LU anymore than it already is.

[Baldspot]

I'm all for guns but perhaps not on campus. As an RA years ago, I attempted to breakup a fight between two guys in the court yard. It was finals week. The one guy was getting beat up pretty good and there were a lot of onlookers. After I separated the two, the aggressor lunged again and threw another punch. In reaction, I picked him up and threw him to the ground hoping he'd get the point. Suffice to say he ended up in the hospital with a broken arm. Found out later they were fighting over a girl.


Finals, females and firearms. Ugly

[Kolzilla41]

once again, people break the rules and have guns on campus all the time. this would provide a way for someone to do it legally and in a safer manner.

its not a matter of crime numbers, its just making a legal option for something that should not be outlawed in the first place

Let's do it with drugs too

[JDUB]

once again, people break the rules and have guns on campus all the time. this would provide a way for someone to do it legally and in a safer manner.

its not a matter of crime numbers, its just making a legal option for something that should not be outlawed in the first place

I fail to see the logic in this statement. You don't change the rules just because someone is already breaking them. That's like making DUI or sexual assault legal just because "people do it all the time". As for what's currently "outlawed", correct me if I'm wrong, but college campuses are private property and the owners of said property can make just about whatever restrictions or "outlaw" anything they want on their land.

As for Utah colleges, a quick look at campus crime statistics (available here) shows that crime levels at Liberty and all of the mentioned schools in Utah are pretty much the same already. With such a low existing crime rate, I don't see how concealed carry would improve the safety situation at LU anymore than it already is.

you could use the same statistic to say it doesn't increase crime, so there is no reason to not allow it. the difference in this and DUI or assault is concealed carry is legal in the United States and in VA, it just isn't allowed on LU property. LU has the right to say it is or isn't allowed on their property. they don't have to right to allow sexual assault on campus

[SuperJon]

Would it be possible to allow people who were not resident students (did not live in the dorms) to have concealed carry but not resident students? I just have a hard time getting my head around allowing guns in the dorms. That's got bad written all over it.

[Hold My Own]

I think it's possible to keep them from the dorms...very small amount of students on campus are 21 that are not SLD's/RA's or something else involved with the school....and when I say few we're talking less then 3%

[newandimproved]

yeah, that is my thing...allowing guns in the dorms...I don't believe any student should be allowed to have a gun on the dorms. Way to much of a possibility of somebody else getting their hands on it

[RagingTireFire]

you could use the same statistic to say it doesn't increase crime, so there is no reason to not allow it.

No, you can't say that. You can't say that at all.

You and A-train's whole argument to this point has been that having guns on campus would reduce crime and, according to these statistics, that argument is empty. The central question of whether or not to allow concealed carry is really one of safety. Does an increased armed presence on campus improve safety from crime as opposed to the risk posed by that many more people carrying firearms? With such a low crime rate, to introduce guns onto campus would provide only marginal additional safety at best and would provide an exponentially greater amount of risk, not from crime but from firearm-related stupidity.

the difference in this and DUI or assault is concealed carry is legal in the United States and in VA, it just isn't allowed on LU property. LU has the right to say it is or isn't allowed on their property. they don't have to right to allow sexual assault on campus

Your version of logic is not like our earth logic. I was not speaking literally of legalizing DUI or sexual assault. I was making an analogy with regard to something that is disallowed despite the fact that it happens fairly often in society. The fact that "people break the rules and have guns on campus all the time" is no reason to start allowing it.