[Friend of the Family]

I hope you are right... it does seem odd though that it doesn't mention what qualifies as a conference in that definition. Could two teams form a conference and then get in on that criteria?

[Friend of the Family]

Maybe the answer is in what the NCAA defines as a valid conference champion.

[SuperJon]

it does seem odd though that it doesn't mention what qualifies as a conference in that definition. Could two teams form a conference and then get in on that criteria?

3.02.3.3 Member Conference. A member conference is a group of colleges and/or universities that conducts
competition among its members and determines a conference champion in one or more sports (in which
the NCAA conducts championships or for which it is responsible for providing playing rules for intercollegiate
competition), duly elected to conference membership under the provisions of this article (see Constitution
3.3.3). A member conference is entitled to all of the privileges of active members except the right to compete in
NCAA championships (see Constitution 3.3.2). Only those conferences that meet specific criteria as competitive
and legislative bodies (see Constitutions 3.02.1 and 3.02.2) and minimum standards related to size and
division status are permitted to vote on legislation or other issues before the Association.

[Kolzilla41]

Oh, NOW I understand.

[Friend of the Family]

it does seem odd though that it doesn't mention what qualifies as a conference in that definition. Could two teams form a conference and then get in on that criteria?

3.02.3.3 Member Conference. A member conference is a group of colleges and/or universities that conducts
competition among its members and determines a conference champion in one or more sports (in which
the NCAA conducts championships or for which it is responsible for providing playing rules for intercollegiate
competition), duly elected to conference membership under the provisions of this article (see Constitution
3.3.3). A member conference is entitled to all of the privileges of active members except the right to compete in
NCAA championships (see Constitution 3.3.2). Only those conferences that meet specific criteria as competitive
and legislative bodies (see Constitutions 3.02.1 and 3.02.2) and minimum standards related to size and
division status are permitted to vote on legislation or other issues before the Association.

So going by that, two or three schools could form a conference and meet the criteria. So even if the BS didn't get the two new teams they would have been eligible?

[SuperJon]

In this, I would say yes. They would still have to win eight Division I wins, be in the top 20, and win two over playoff eligible conference teams. The conference champion part would just be easier. I think Cal-Poly is in a really small conference this year and are pushing for a playoff berth.

[Stevev]

It would help our case if Youngstown were to keep winning for here on out and would qualify for the playoffs also. That would give us our signature win. Something that was missing for us last year. The year Coastal got there had Furman as their key win.

[Sly Fox]

I agree wholeheartedly, Steve. In fact let's add Elon, Lafayette & WCU to YSU as our new favorite teams outside of the Flames. The better those schools do the rest of the way the better it serves our case.

[coolhandluke]

PLAYOFFS?...

[Chris Lang]

According to Chris Lang... he was right.

And according to an official website of the American Football Coaches Association (AFCA), the Collegiate Commissioners Association (CCA), the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics (NACDA) and the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA), which are the stakeholders for college football, I'm right. I love Chris, but I'm going with that website.

Jon, this is from the NCAA official report on the matter:

In addition, the cabinet approved a change in the committee�s selection criteria to provide an avenue of access for those conferences that qualify for automatic qualification but do not receive it because of the size of the bracket.

The Big South, as it is presently constituted, is not a conference that qualifies for automatic qualification. In any sport, a league must have six teams that have played continuously together for two years. That's the reason that Birmingham-Southern remained in the Big South for softball last year even though the school had moved to DIII in all other sports. Otherwise, the league would have lost its auto bid.

Until Stony Brook is in the Big South for two years, the Big South is not a conference that qualifies for automatic qualification.[/url]

[SuperJon]

Then why did they word it differently on the release that I quoted? It was an article released that was talking about NEC football and how they could earn and automatic berth this year.

[Chris Lang]

Re-read this part from what you quoted:

A member conference is entitled to all of the privileges of active members except the right to compete in
NCAA championships (see Constitution 3.3.2). Only those conferences that meet specific criteria as competitive
and legislative bodies (see Constitutions 3.02.1 and 3.02.2) and minimum standards related to size and
division status are permitted to vote on legislation or other issues before the Association.

The NCAA has that part in place so that five random teams can't split off and call itself a conference and get an automatic bid to an NCAA championship.

[SuperJon]

I know, but that was from something different. That was the NCAA by-laws. What I quoted was from an FCS committee meeting where they laid out the criteria for the earned access.

[ToTheLeft]

We're still allowed into the postseason... right? Just not "automatically"... Cuz in the end we just need to be in a position where, whether it's automatic or not, we make it impossible for them to keep us out.

[Chris Lang]

Jon, what I quoted was from the NCAA release after the meeting about playoff expansion. Here's the full entry:

b. Football Championships Subdivision. Based on a recommendation from the NCAA Division I Championships/Competition Cabinet�s Bracket/Format Subcommittee, the cabinet agreed that during the next budget cycle funds should be allocated for a bracket expansion to 20 teams effective with the 2010 championship. (For 29, Against 17 �) It was noted that the goal of expanding to 20 teams is to address access issues for those conferences that are, or soon will be eligible to receive automatic qualification to the championship. The delay in funding is necessary to allow conferences and institutions to revise their football schedules to accommodate an extended championship.



In addition, the cabinet approved a change in the committee�s selection criteria to provide an avenue of access for those conferences that qualify for automatic qualification but do not receive it because of the size of the bracket. Specifically, a guaranteed at-large position shall be awarded in any year in which a conference champion team representing a non-automatic qualification conference meets all of the following conditions:



(1) Team wins a minimum of eight Division I games during the season;



(2) Team wins a minimum of two nonconference games against Division I teams representing a conference that has earned an automatic qualification in that year; and



(3) Team finishes the season ranked 16 or higher in an average of the last regular-season media, coaches and/or computer polls (which will be determined by the committee on an annual basis).



It was noted that the criteria is not intended to be a permanent solution for interested and eligible conferences without automatic qualification. Rather, the criteria should only be used to bridge the time between when such conferences apply for an automatic qualification and the time needed to implement bracket expansion.

Again, the three numbered items don't matter if a conference doesn't actually qualify as a postseason-eligible conference.

***

And TTL, yes, LU can get in. Just not automatically. Cal Poly in 2005 got in as an independent.

[SuperJon]

I believe you, I'm just confused as to why they would announce it in a different article that was NCAA affiliated that the earned access applies for us, unless the NEC already has six teams before this year. That's the only way it would make sense.

[Chris Lang]

NEC had six solid before this year -- Monmouth, Albany, Wagner, Sacred Heart, St. Francis, CCSU. Those six have been together for a while.

Honestly, there's been confusion on this issue, and I didn't realize I was wrong until someone pointed it out to me this weekend. I'm not the only one that's been wrong on it, either. I honestly think a lot of people glazed over the first qualification because of the three numbered items.

[Rooster Cogburn]

So, are wer saying that the info on here for 6 months or more has been wrong, and we have only a small chance as an atlarge that would basically take a miracle????

[Chris Lang]

Yes, the info has been wrong. No, it wouldn't take a miracle. The win at YSU will resonate. I think the Penguins will still end up being OK in their league. Still have solid games left at CCU, vs. LAF and vs. ELON. LU can't afford to trip against anybody else on the schedule, though.

[Rooster Cogburn]

So, we'd have to run the table?

[SuperJon]

This changes things a little, but not too much. If we meet the three criteria that was listed, which we all know is possible, we won't be guaranteed a playoff spot but it would be VERY hard for the committee to keep us out.

[Chris Lang]

Agreed, Jon. No, I don't think LU has to run the table. But the Flames HAVE to win the Big South. And honestly, probably go 11-1 at this point. Because any loss outside of Coastal and Elon would be considered a bad loss.

[thesportscritic]

what about Lafayette Chris if we were to lose to them would that be a bad loss?

[SuperJon]

If Lafayette wins the PL, it wouldn't be a terrible loss.

[Iwasneverhere]

Agreed, Jon. No, I don't think LU has to run the table. But the Flames HAVE to win the Big South. And honestly, probably go 11-1 at this point. Because any loss outside of Coastal and Elon would be considered a bad loss.

What about Lafayette? They are undefeated (granted the quality of teams is lacking) and could very well win the patriot. IF they win the Patriot and we beat them, that could also be a big W and help our resume for playoffs. just throwing that out for discussion.