[thepostman]

haha...you guys are too easy...

[RubberMallet]

As someone who doesn’t have healthcare because it is unaffordable,

you do KINDA need a job in order to afford healthcare....

[Hold My Own]

Ok...so she has a job...how would she get there? What we need is a healthcare/taxi service...now that is worth talking about!!!

[RubberMallet]

a vanbulance....

[mrmacphisto]

When I'm president, every city will have a Cash Cab.

[JDUB]

i just think its funny that he called mr jcrew a redneck

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

Ok...so she has a job...how would she get there? What we need is a healthcare/taxi service...now that is worth talking about!!!

Im sure Obama has one in mind Because what we have we should share, The people who take responsibility for themselves and have jobs and can drive will have to pick people like her up and take her to work.

[Psalm34:1believer]

Hello Everybody! I am a Liberty University student (sophomore to be perfectly honest). I am also a supporter of Barack Obama. I will be completely willing to answer any questions that anyone has regarding senator Obama and his positions on various topics. I am a devout Christian, and, ironically, very pro-life. All of these may seem quite contradictory to the way in which I vote, but I do have my reasons. . . Please, ask away.

Also, I do not really know who Michelle is. I think I may have met her once (she loves the beatles, +5 pts. in my book). BUT, the other thread was completely absurd. Michelle is not perfect, no one is. I would like to publicly apologize to her on behalf of Liberty Students, and let her know that not all of us judge her. It takes guts for her to stand up for what she believes in. We do not know her story, we do not know her background. Let's make sure that this thread steers clear of off-topics criticisms and condescending mannerisms.

[ToTheLeft]

Well... If you don't believe in abortion being a valid choice for women (and don't see children as a "punishment" like BHO does.), how do you justify voting for someone who is so STRONGLY in favor of this murder?

Also... what is it about BHO that draws you to him? What is the one, main thing about him that makes you think "I want to find out more about Obama and see if I agree with him"?

As well... do you think that hard working Americans REALLY can't afford healthcare, and that somehow, the GOVERNMENT will be able to magically fix this?

Furthermore, how do you feel about the war in Iraq, and do you really believe that Senator Obama will act in the best interest of the men and women overseas as "commander in chief"?

Just some general questions, to get some background for everyone else to base things off of.

[Psalm34:1believer]

I do not believe that children are a punishment, and granted, Barack's statements in that context were a personal disappointment. May I, however, provide you with some quotes from "the other side"

---McCain said, "I'd love to see a point where Roe vs. Wade is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations. --- (contact me if you would like the link)

This is where we fall in to "politician mode". Lets face it--they all lie. They do whatever they can to get the vote they need. Eight years ago, we elected a president who we, as evangelicals, were super excited about. President Bush claimed he believed in God, and that God created the earth. He has since put the love of oil above the needs of this God-created earth. We voted for Bush because we thought that we finally had a voice. Finally, America was headed in the right direction.

I do respect Bush for placing a ban on partial-birth abortion. I honestly feel that this ban will continue to stay in place throughout Barack Obama's presidency (if elected), despite his alleged support for p.b.a.

How do I justify voting for Obama while be pro-life? Wow- it's a tough question, I'm not gonna lie. As a Christian, I believe that life should be given freely to everybody, even to the unborn. However, there comes a time where we have to decide, "is this one issue keeping me from voting for a candidate that could help boost so many other avenues?" It was tough. I have marched in Anti-Abortion rallies, and participated in Walks for Life for as long as I can remember. This election season will not change that. I will proudly vote for Barack Obama, and then proudly continue to rally for the Pro-Life Movement.

As far as the one thing that drew me to Obama-- Well, to be honest, I started out as a Hillary Clinton fan (we could argue about this for hours--you think being an LU Obama supporter is rough, you should try being a Hillary supporter). I began to draw towards political apathy after we all knew Clinton had no chance. I knew that, as a Christian, it was important that I exercise my right to vote. I researched both candidates vigorously. At the risk of sounding like a bandwagon-jumper....the whole moniker of "Change" was the whole draw-in that made Barack appeal to me more than McCain. I'll have you know, however, that I did my research. I do love Barack's stance on so many issues. I do not think that Healthcare should just be handed out like parade candy, but I do think it is important that is available for everyone. To be quite honest, I think it may take a while to get this whole health-care mess straightened out to a whole bi-partisan plan that works for the better of this country as a whole. Do I think that the government can magically fix healthcare? Absolutely not- No matter what the government does, there will always be lazy Americans who will not take any initiative. They only want what is handed to them. Americans can, as a whole, afford health care (I believe), However, personal biases aside, we can both agree that the Bush administration has made many poor decisions that have cost many Americans their jobs. Our solution to a better healthcare system is, first, a better economy. I honestly believe that the solution to a better economy is not found in John McCain.

Barack's plans in Iraq directly affect this issue of the economy. My uncle is a sergeant in U.S. Army, serving in Iraq. He is a devout George W. Bush fan. My friends, according to those who are serving in Iraq--"This war is over". I do not mean to mix politics with personal reflection, but my uncle has often talked about losing some of his closest friends every day. We have done what we came to do. We have shown terrorists that we will not hesitate to retaliate. We have divided and conquered, and have even helped to set up what we destroyed. We are no longer needed...or wanted. We need to withdrawal our troops as soon as possible. Innocent lives are being lost daily. The Washington Post recently reported that the daily cost of the Iraq War is over $720 Million dollars a day. The Chief Economist at Global Bank estimates the war to have cost at least $2.2 Trillion, not including interest. With the money it takes for one day of war in Iraq--just one day---we could buy homes for 6,500 families, or provide health care for 423,529 children. By pulling out of Iraq, we can save innocent American and Iraqi lives, leave Iraq in its current state, heading towards a free democracy, and utilize the unfathomable amount of funds that were used for the war to pay off war debt and then help this great country head out of this "recession" and into prosperity like we had in the nineties (sorry, that's the Clinton fan coming out in me).

Senator Obama isn't perfect. I will be the first to admit. This is a tough election. I had to step out of my box for this one. I assure you, this isn't an attention game for me...there will be no "15 minutes of fame" for me. I will let people like Michelle take over any media outlet. I honestly feel that Senator Obama is the right choice for this nation. It's easy to get so caught up in the cliche of "hope" and "change", but let's face it, "change" is the very thing that we need.

[Baldspot]

I do not believe that children are a punishment, and granted, Barack's statements in that context were a personal disappointment.

Barack Obama regarding residents of Pennsylvania

they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Do you consider this another disappointing statement or the reflection of the most liberal senator in the DC?

[Innocent Bystander]

How do I justify voting for Obama while be pro-life? Wow- it's a tough question, I'm not gonna lie. As a Christian, I believe that life should be given freely to everybody, even to the unborn. However, there comes a time where we have to decide, "is this one issue keeping me from voting for a candidate that could help boost so many other avenues?" It was tough. I have marched in Anti-Abortion rallies, and participated in Walks for Life for as long as I can remember. This election season will not change that. I will proudly vote for Barack Obama, and then proudly continue to rally for the Pro-Life Movement.

I'll be honest. I didn't read past this paragraph because I was somewhat stunned. "is this one issue keeping me from voting for a candidate that could help boost so many other avenues?". I don't see how you can be pro-life and support life for the unborn and ask that question. How many people is it okay to kill to get better health care, lower taxes, a stronger military, help to the poor and a stonger economy? I don't mean to attack and be sensational here, but your statement treats the life of a human being as a bargaining chip. Help me to understand this and I will go back and read the rest of your post. If you already answered this further on, please ignore my message.

[RagingTireFire]

How many people is it okay to kill to get better health care, lower taxes, a stronger military, help to the poor and a stonger economy?

[SuperJon]

I'm completely pro-life, but I understand it takes more than just a president to overturn something like Roe vs Wade. I agree completely with the McCain statement about Roe vs Wade. Abortion is terrible, but I'm not going to let that one single issue determine a presidency for me. Obama's stance on the issue is completely wrong but I wouldn't let that keep me from voting for him if he was solid on all of the other issues. The thing is, I don't think he is. Neither is McCain though.

[RagingTireFire]

I'm completely pro-life, but I understand it takes more than just a president to overturn something like Roe vs Wade. I agree completely with the McCain statement about Roe vs Wade. Abortion is terrible, but I'm not going to let that one single issue determine a presidency for me. Obama's stance on the issue is completely wrong but I wouldn't let that keep me from voting for him if he was solid on all of the other issues. The thing is, I don't think he is. Neither is McCain though.

I could understand that if the candidate were not clearly pro-choice. For me, being pro-life isn't a selling point for me but being pro-choice is to guarantee that I will not support you. As a father, I could never, ever, under any circumstances, vote for a person who condones killing children.

[Innocent Bystander]

I'm completely pro-life, but I understand it takes more than just a president to overturn something like Roe vs Wade. I agree completely with the McCain statement about Roe vs Wade. Abortion is terrible, but I'm not going to let that one single issue determine a presidency for me. Obama's stance on the issue is completely wrong but I wouldn't let that keep me from voting for him if he was solid on all of the other issues. The thing is, I don't think he is. Neither is McCain though.

I agree that it takes more than just a president. It also takes the supreme court. Have you looked at the age of some of our current justices? Stevens is 88. Three more are in their 70's. The next president is definitely going to be appointing at least 1 new justice, and maybe more. Unfortunately, I doubt McCain will be appointing justices that are much more conservative than Obama will.

[Purple Haize]

I never read the other thread but this thread seems to be a good place to list my reasons why I am not supporting Obama and maybe have a good discussion about it. Some of the reasons are philosophical some are practical. I will try to stay out of broad brush strokes such as he is a Communist (he isn't) and define words i.e. Health CARE (everyone has) vs Health INSURANCE (not everyone has or needs)

1. The #1 reason, and this would apply to any candidate, is his lack of record. This is not an experience issue it is a record issue. More often then not he either doesn't vote or votes "Present". No choice or bill is perfect, but when a politican can't come down on simple issues on a state legislature level, what is to give one confidence that they not only will MAKE a decision, but make the correct one on more complex global issues?

2. Race. Yes I said it, but not the way you think. I have NEVER heard JMac, MR or any other serious Repulican bring race into the equation. The only one who has injected it were WJC and BHO. On two occasions BHO has said that the Republicans will try to scare voters based on race, most recently saying that "He doesn't look like all the other presidents on the dollar bill". What is up with that? The only one who cares what color he is, apparently is him. That may be and is effective in Chicago but not as a world leader.

3. The War. The only decision we have to judge him on is his stance on the war. Based on that stance, he has poor judgement. The surge and its tactics worked, Iraq is a much better place. Now he wants to put a larger footprint in Afghanastan, but would that be wise? The Soviets, not to mention the English, have shown that more troops doesn't mean more stability in that country. A change of tactics is more important then an increase of personell.

4. Profit. I am all about profit. America is great b/c of our ability to pursue profit. If I go to work, do really well and earn more money that is NOT a bad thing. If a company provides a good or service, who is the government to tell them they can't make a profit? Can the phrase "Obscene Profit" be defined? There is no answer for "How much is too much" b/c Person A who makes less then Person B will think that Person B is "Rich".

5. Taxes. To put it simply, liberals often ask people who make a lot of money "How much is too much". Yet they never seem to answer the same question when it comes to taxes. How much IS too much for someone to pay in taxes? Not dollar amount but percentage of income. Why do high achievers have to pay more and get punished? Read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand for more details

6. America is GREAT. Obama talks about America's greatness in the past tense and HOPE for it in the future tense. I happen to think America is great NOW! We are the sole superpower and have yet to nuke a country out of existence. We send more aid to other countries then any other country in HISTORY! And that is just our private citizens. Say what you will about the last 8 years, but we are at FULL EMPLOYMENT (economists agree that anything around 4 - 5% is full employment) interst rates are incredibly low (Mortgages are still around 6%) the stock market is high. We are not in a recession and the only reason we are having slow growth is b/c of peoples lack of personal responsibility with their PERSONAL finances.

7. Health Insurance. Until he learns the difference between health care and health insurance, there is no reason to debate the issue. As a primer everyone has health care not everyone has or needs health insurance. In fact, those that have health INSURANCE have to pay for the health CARE of those who don't have health insurance!!! And why should I have to pay for the health insurance of the person across the street from me?

8. Energy. We have the resources why not use them? Drill in Alaska, Drill off Shore, use American resources to fuel American industry. Use nuclear energy, use clean coal. We did not create the world and we can't destroy it. Of course as an added bonus we can do it in a way that will keep things like we found them. We would HELP the environment if we drilll off shore b/c of the natural oil and gas seepage that occur in nature. FACT: The amount of seepage produced by an off shore rig is LESS then the naturally occuring seepage from the same reserve. The US has NEVER had anyone killed in a nuclear power plant accident. These plants are up to 30 years old and still chugging along. Does anyone still use anything 30 years old? There have been improvements that make them even SAFER and more efficient.

9. Role of Government. It is my belief that the government is not responsible for finding me not just a job but a "Good" job. Can somone define "good'? Nor is it responsible for my health insurance OR care. It is not responsible for my retirement. It is not responsible to care for ANY of its citizens from the cradle to the grave. A safety net, sure. A way of life, no. And it HAS become that way from too many.

10. Wife. I just think McCains' wife is hotter!! PLUS she runs a brewery!! That is a hard combo to beat!

[Sly Fox]

First off, big ups to Psalm 34:1 Believer for stepping forward to state her case in what clearly is at times a way too hostile forum. She is willing to engage in discussion and she is exactly what everyone was asking for in the other thread. So let's see some folks step up and ask her the hard questions.

I admit I am a bit confused as to her position. Is she a Obama supporter or just someone who is voting for him as the lesser of two evils in comparison to McCain? She seems to be leading more toward the latter based on the last post. Is that a fair assessment, Psalm?

[AZjonz]

There is a possibility that at least 2 justices will retire in the next presidency. Who do I want making the decision for nominating the replacements? Surely not Obama.

The abortion issue will be determined in the courts. McCain was instrumental in getting Bush's noms appointed. He has at least given us an idea on what kind of nominees he will select.

You are right that politicians will give lip-service to abortion. They know it's an issue that will always end up in the courts.

Are you comfortable with the judges Obama may select? Has he given any indications on how he will lean?

[AZjonz]

Sorry Innocent Bystander, I see you have dealt with the issue. I'm reading/responding from a Blackberry and it's sometimes difficult to scroll through the larger threads.

[Psalm34:1believer]

I admit I am a bit confused as to her position. Is she a Obama supporter or just someone who is voting for him as the lesser of two evils in comparison to McCain? She seems to be leading more toward the latter based on the last post. Is that a fair assessment, Psalm?

While I am a "supporter", I feel I am also choosing the lesser of two evils. I really liked Mike Huckabee, a lot. I have always been a Clinton fan, but if it had come down to Clinton and Huckabee, I really don't know what I would have done. The truth is, I just don't trust John McCain. I do not agree with 100% of what either candidate says. My vote in November will be a reflection of my personal convictions.

[Psalm34:1believer]

I do not believe that children are a punishment, and granted, Barack's statements in that context were a personal disappointment.

Barack Obama regarding residents of Pennsylvania

they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Do you consider this another disappointing statement or the reflection of the most liberal senator in the DC?

Ok, Baldspot. We may disagree on this. I have lived in Pennsylvania for a few years now. Have you ever been to Northern Pennsylvania; such as Scranton or other areas. Racism abounds, almost to a crazy standard. Central Pennslyvania is made up primarily of Old-school baptists, most over the age of 40. I believe Barack's statement was not appropriate, although, not entirely false.

To label Mr. Obama as the most liberal candidate in Washington? I'm not sure I agree with that. While he may appear to more evangelicals than Obama, Seantor Kerry's viewpoints differ greatly from those of most voting evangelical americans. Other extremely liberal senators, such as Biden, Whitehouse, or Sanders hold some pretty libral ideologies close to their hearts as well.

[RubberMallet]

First off, big ups to Psalm 34:1 Believer for stepping forward to state her case in what clearly is at times a way too hostile forum. She is willing to engage in discussion and she is exactly what everyone was asking for in the other thread. So let's see some folks step up and ask her the hard questions.

I admit I am a bit confused as to her position. Is she a Obama supporter or just someone who is voting for him as the lesser of two evils in comparison to McCain? She seems to be leading more toward the latter based on the last post. Is that a fair assessment, Psalm?

i think all anyone wanted was an intelligent discussion regarding the matter... something barack and roll didn't offer. so she got lambasted....i agree it sounds like psalms is doing a lesser of too evils vote and has also unfortunately bought into the whole change/hope crap.

unfortunately most people don't understand healthcare and economics which is frustrating for the most part. unfortunately, i feel most of our congress doesn't either. i was watching c-span the other day and some democrat from ND came on talking about how we used to have a surplus before bush blah blah blah blah, then the whitehouse economic chair or something came on and showed him how he was wrong....the senator from ND didn't have anything to say... yet i'm sure he'll go on and spout off about this imaginary surplus that we had....

i have many barack supporters that i'm friends with....most are gullible and would buy a ketchup and onion popsicle if the ad was good enough.

being that i live in illinois, i'm not so concerned with barack's policies and i can live with them. my taxes will go up, more gay people will get married, and there will still be abortion. its sucks, but its going on right now and while this might sound terrible, my life is pretty good. as long as the republicans take back congress...(you know that congress that is controlled by the democrats and has the lowest approval rating EVER) which i believe they will, i'm not too hysterical. The problem is he is either shady or he's too naive to be our president. look at the people he's associated himself with in illinois. some of the biggest crooks in our state. many of whom are in jail. either he knows about it, or he's a pushover....my guess is the latter and thats not what i want as my president...

[Psalm34:1believer]

How do I justify voting for Obama while be pro-life? Wow- it's a tough question, I'm not gonna lie. As a Christian, I believe that life should be given freely to everybody, even to the unborn. However, there comes a time where we have to decide, "is this one issue keeping me from voting for a candidate that could help boost so many other avenues?" It was tough. I have marched in Anti-Abortion rallies, and participated in Walks for Life for as long as I can remember. This election season will not change that. I will proudly vote for Barack Obama, and then proudly continue to rally for the Pro-Life Movement.

I'll be honest. I didn't read past this paragraph because I was somewhat stunned. "is this one issue keeping me from voting for a candidate that could help boost so many other avenues?". I don't see how you can be pro-life and support life for the unborn and ask that question. How many people is it okay to kill to get better health care, lower taxes, a stronger military, help to the poor and a stonger economy? I don't mean to attack and be sensational here, but your statement treats the life of a human being as a bargaining chip. Help me to understand this and I will go back and read the rest of your post. If you already answered this further on, please ignore my message.

First off, I apologize if my statements offend you. I do not mean to place a human life as a bargaining chip. Again, this is a tough issue for me. I believe Senator Mccain merely uses his alleged "pro life" stance just to attract voters. He's always been wishy-washy on the issue, and I have no doubt he will continue to be. Even if he was telling the complete truth, and he acted fully upon his word, turning over roe vs. wade and closing down all abortion clinics across the nation within three months of his election--that would be catastrophic. Women would scramble for back alley hanger abortions, or other destructive methods. Abortion, like anything else, is not going to disappear over night. It's a steady process. If we can first limit the number, by mandating that, within a set time frame, only those at health risk, or those who were raped, or were a case of incest could have the option for abortion. I do believe that if the mother is at risk, abortion is the choice between the parents of such said child. ---This isn't going to go away anytime soon, no matter who we elect. I also feel that by improving the economy and better sex education programs in our schools, we can help curtail the number of abortions drastically as well.

I'm glad that Senator Obama is honest in his position of abortion. I respectfully disagree with him. My vote will still be cast, and I will still be pro-life.

[Sly Fox]

While I am a "supporter", I feel I am also choosing the lesser of two evils. I really liked Mike Huckabee, a lot. I have always been a Clinton fan, but if it had come down to Clinton and Huckabee, I really don't know what I would have done. The truth is, I just don't trust John McCain. I do not agree with 100% of what either candidate says. My vote in November will be a reflection of my personal convictions.

Fair enough. I think many of us on the board will be voting for McCain not becaus eof who he is but because of who he isn't.

Ok, Baldspot. We may disagree on this. I have lived in Pennsylvania for a few years now. Have you ever been to Northern Pennsylvania; such as Scranton or other areas. Racism abounds, almost to a crazy standard. Central Pennslyvania is made up primarily of Old-school baptists, most over the age of 40. I believe Barack's statement was not appropriate, although, not entirely false.

Paging Baldspot. I feel confident he'll answer your question strongly in the affirmative. But are you implying the racism comes primarily from middle-aged white Baptists?

To label Mr. Obama as the most liberal candidate in Washington? I'm not sure I agree with that.

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/

While he may appear to more evangelicals than Obama, Seantor Kerry's viewpoints differ greatly from those of most voting evangelical americans. Other extremely liberal senators, such as Biden, Whitehouse, or Sanders hold some pretty libral ideologies close to their hearts as well.

Are you trying to assert Obama's guilt by association or defend his position.