[SuperJon]

and Duncan doesn't provide anywhere close to the amount of leadership as KG.

I'm ok with you saying KG is just as good or Duncan has times where he goes soft, but this statement may be the dumbest thing you've ever said on this board. Do you know anything about Tim Duncan? At all?

[kel varson]

Wilkins may not have been able to shoot...but he did end up 9th all-time in scoring. That's pretty good considering he couldn't shoot.

neither could wilt chamberlain.

Compare there FG percentage's. At 6-8, Nique should have been better than 46 percent. Even Jordan was 49 percent career. Wilt was 54 percent.

[kel varson]

and Duncan doesn't provide anywhere close to the amount of leadership as KG.

I'm ok with you saying KG is just as good or Duncan has times where he goes soft, but this statement may be the dumbest thing you've ever said on this board. Do you know anything about Tim Duncan? At all?

I think he means Duncan doesn't curse enough.

[flamesbball84]

and Duncan doesn't provide anywhere close to the amount of leadership as KG.

I'm ok with you saying KG is just as good or Duncan has times where he goes soft, but this statement may be the dumbest thing you've ever said on this board. Do you know anything about Tim Duncan? At all?

I think he means Duncan doesn't curse enough.

I know plenty about Tim Duncan. KG provides better leadership flat out.

And all of Timmy's cussing is directed towards the refs because he's a whining baby, another notch against him.

[SuperJon]

How can you say that? Honestly, what proof do you have that KG is a better leader? It's not wins. It's not championships. It's not what players have said about him unless Duncan punches his teammates like KG does. What is it? What makes KG better?

[flamesbball84]

How can you say that? Honestly, what proof do you have that KG is a better leader? It's not wins. It's not championships. It's not what players have said about him unless Duncan punches his teammates like KG does. What is it? What makes KG better?

First of all, you ruined your argument by saying "it's not what the player have said about him." Have you not listened to a single thing the Celtics players and Doc Rivers have said about Garnett this year? Since it sounds like you haven't or you need a refresher, here are a few snippets of what Celtics players and Doc Rivers have said

"The whole face of the Celtics nation turned around when the trade happened with this guy. Everyone talks about the MVP and they talk about numbers, but this guy has changed the whole culture around here and I think that says a lot for everything. The mentality, to a day-to-day aspect, everything is changed from a year ago." - Paul Pierce http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8078

"He's a leader, he's a motivator, he's a winner. He's proven that throughout this year. He's just a great friend. He knows what it takes to win. He picks guys up with confidence and he's unselfish. I think that's the biggest thing. He's unselfish. He's willing to sacrifice scoring, assists and rebounds for the betterment of the team." - Rajon Rondo http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8078

"He's MVP in itself because our team is doing really well, we've got the best record in the whole league. It was the biggest turnaround in NBA history I think and it's all due to him. Everybody else contributes but it's due to him. He brings the leadership on and off the court. When you've got a leader like that, everybody works hard and everybody holds each other accountable. That's what he brings to this table." - Leon Powe http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8078

"There are so many things I could describe but the one that catches my eye the most is his leadership. I knew he was a great player, … [but] just him being the man that he is, you learn so much from it. [He taught me to] be professional in whatever I do because everything you do is being watched. And when you don't think you're being watched, you're being watched." - Glen Davis http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8078

"There's a number of different reasons you could say why [Garnett is MVP], but the one that means most to me is he is a guy who can raise the level of play of the people around him. I don't think it's a coincidence that you see guys like Leon Powe, guys like Glen "Big Baby" Davis, Eddie House, everybody's having a great year. I think Kevin's presence is the biggest impact in making a difference in their career. Not only is it just that. His approach to the game is infectious and rubs off on everybody, his passion, his respect for the game and practice. That means a lot to our young guys, Perkins and these young guys who are having great years from what they're learning. Just from those two standpoints I would say he's the MVP." - PJ Brown http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=8078

“When Kevin’s here, our defensive intensity is always tops,” Rivers said. “Today at practice, it wasn’t, but the guys were able to pick it up themselves during the practice. It was something I was proud to see.” http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... &type=lgns

It's not what the players say about him? Do you know anything about Kevin Garnett? Anything at all?

[SuperJon]

Reading comprehension. Learn it. Use it.

I said, "It's not what players have said about him unless Duncan punches his teammates like KG does." That was a reference to Garnett getting into fights with his teammates when he was in Minnesota.

What do I know about Garnett? I know that until this series he screamed and yelled to look intense but then couldn't back it up in big games. That's not that great of a leader. Yes, he's been a leader this year. However, while he was doing that, Duncan was leading his team to being possibly the most successful team in the past eight years.

[flameshaw]

Wilt
Elgin Baylor
Jerry West
Kareem
MJ
Julius Erving
Oscar R
Magic
Larry B.
Shaq

[RubberMallet]

Wilkins may not have been able to shoot...but he did end up 9th all-time in scoring. That's pretty good considering he couldn't shoot.

neither could wilt chamberlain.

Compare there FG percentage's. At 6-8, Nique should have been better than 46 percent. Even Jordan was 49 percent career. Wilt was 54 percent.

if you have ever known anything about wilts game you would know that that is a bit misleading...when you score all your points from within 4 feet of the basket i'd hope you'd shoot somewhere above 50%. he had no outside jumper...his ft% should help you see that. the gameplan was throw it in to wilt, he'd either kick it out for the assist or take the shot. thats it. noone could defend him he was wayyy before his time which is the reason for his gawdy #'s. he would of been hakeem (plus or minus, i lean towards plus) in todays game.

[RubberMallet]

but then couldn't back it up in big games.

garnetts playoff #'s are monstrous (i'm not even talking about this year)

i would have a tough choice if i had to choose between the 2. but we now see that kg can be just as dominate with just as much talent around him.

[RubberMallet]

as for iverson...if he was in my top 10 it would be down near the bottom....i'd have him in my top 20.

the things iverson can do at his size is simply amazing....

[SuperJon]

but then couldn't back it up in big games.

garnetts playoff #'s are monstrous (i'm not even talking about this year)

i would have a tough choice if i had to choose between the 2. but we now see that kg can be just as dominate with just as much talent around him.

Ok, I can concede that. However, how is it possible to say "Duncan doesn't provide anywhere close to the amount of leadership as KG" is absolutely ridiculous. I won't say KG isn't a leader. You just can't say something as dumb as what he did and not get ridiculed for it.

[thepostman]

Duncan is by far the better leader...KG is a leader...yes...but come on...Duncan is clearly a better leader...

KG and Duncan are about equal talent wise, but I would take Duncan over KG any day of the week....


KG is still incredibly over rated to me...and does not even belong in a top 10 players of all time conversation....

[RubberMallet]

Duncan is by far the better leader...KG is a leader...yes...but come on...Duncan is clearly a better leader...

KG and Duncan are about equal talent wise, but I would take Duncan over KG any day of the week....


KG is still incredibly over rated to me...and does not even belong in a top 10 players of all time conversation....

i don't think we've ever been given a good look at a fair comparison between the 2 until this year....kg had about equal if not better talent around him

i too would probably say duncan has been the better leader but its easy to lead when your teams are as good as they are...

[SuperJon]

Player A
MVP
Defensive Player of the Year
11 Time All-Star
9 time All-NBA - four first team
9 time All-Defensive - first team seven times
NBA All Rookie Second Team
20.4 PPG
11.2 RPG
49.4% career FG%
78.1% career FT%
23.9 minutes per game
21.6 points per game in playoffs
12.4 rebounds per game in playoffs
47% FG% in playoffs
77.6% FT% in playoffs

Player B
Rookie of the Year
All-NBA Rookie Team
Ten NBA All-Star teams - nine first team nominations
11 All-NBA teams - nine first team nominations
11 All-Defensive teams - eight First Team nominations
One of four player to receive All-NBA First Team honors in first eight seasons
Member of 100 Greatest Professional Basketball Players of 20th Century - youngest player on that list
Two-time regular season MVP
Three NBA Finals MVP
21.6 PPG
11.8 RBP
50.8% career FG%
68.4% career FT%
25.1 minutes per game
23.4 points per game in playoffs
12.7 rebounds per game in playoffs
40 minutes per game in playoffs
50.1% FG% in playoffs
69.1% FT% in playoffs

Who are you taking?

[RubberMallet]

Player A
MVP
Defensive Player of the Year
11 Time All-Star
9 time All-NBA - four first team
9 time All-Defensive - first team seven times
NBA All Rookie Second Team
20.4 PPG
11.2 RPG
49.4% career FG%
78.1% career FT%
23.9 minutes per game
21.6 points per game in playoffs
12.4 rebounds per game in playoffs
47% FG% in playoffs
77.6% FT% in playoffs

Player B
Rookie of the Year
All-NBA Rookie Team
Ten NBA All-Star teams - nine first team nominations
11 All-NBA teams - nine first team nominations
11 All-Defensive teams - eight First Team nominations
One of four player to receive All-NBA First Team honors in first eight seasons
Member of 100 Greatest Professional Basketball Players of 20th Century - youngest player on that list
Two-time regular season MVP
Three NBA Finals MVP
21.6 PPG
11.8 RBP
50.8% career FG%
68.4% career FT%
25.1 minutes per game
23.4 points per game in playoffs
12.7 rebounds per game in playoffs
40 minutes per game in playoffs
50.1% FG% in playoffs
69.1% FT% in playoffs

Who are you taking?

..as i said, garnett has done nearly just as much with less....i can't fault him for that....you can list accolades all day long but in the end the people around you (unless you are mj) help with each of those...who did kg have? terrell brandon? wally szerbiak? old sam cassell? latrell sprewell? pre piston chauncy billups?...

[TDDance234]

Tim Duncan is so OVERrated it's not even funny. David Robsinon, Manu, and Tony Parker has carried his butt to the nba title every single year he has won it.

Duncan's 3 NBA finals MVP says otherwise.

[ToTheLeft]

Tim Duncan is so OVERrated it's not even funny. David Robsinon, Manu, and Tony Parker has carried his butt to the nba title every single year he has won it.

Only thing David Robinson carried was an intact legacy to retirement.

Manu? Carried Duncan? HAH!

If anything, we saw in these playoffs that PEIRCE and ALLEN carried an often SOFT KG. KG had to be trained and taught by a coach that "Hey kid, you're 7 feet tall, go inside." And even still, he was hesitant, and not dominant. Duncan is dominant. He is fundamentally sound, he makes it look easy. You never see flashy, you never see ridiculous plays. Duncan is to post play what Hank Aaron was to fielding. Hank Aaron never made the crazy diving plays, because he was smart. He always got the right jump on the ball. So he wasn't making Jim Edmonds dives, because he was sound fundamentally and didn't have to resort to craziness. Thats Duncan... you don't see the runners in the lane one handed and the reverse falling down layups and the fade away jumpers... you see well prepared and executed offense. If I could start my NBA team with any veteran player (More than 10 years experience) It would be Duncan. He knows how to play the game, and makes his team worlds better. It's just a shame he has had to carry a team that is stagnating and getting old and banged up. (Yes, I said Tim is carrying the Spurs).

Tim Duncan is the best Power Forward ever. Period. He wins. He scores. He rebounds. He defends. He wins some more.

The Spurs have been nothing short of a Dynasty since he entered the league. They have been to the West what Detroit has been to the East. They are the one team you don't want any part of in the playoffs, the one team that no one cares about when making their sexy pre season picks, but who always finish in the top 4. The 6 division titles and 4 championships should pretty much prove what kind of dominant figure Duncan is.

And who was it that carried him to victory in the 99 series? An ancient Admiral? Sean Elliot? Avery Johnson?

However, I look at KG's record, and I see only one Division title, and that was in '04, when they actually progressed in the playoffs for the first time since KG had been there, and they promptly lost to the Lakers...

No conference title's.

No championships.

Until Paul Peirce worked his butt off and let KG share it, that is.

I mean seriously, what kind of "best PF ever" struggles to perform when Kendrick Perkins isn't out there at the 5 to help him? He needs Kendrick Perkins that bad?

Sheesh.

I'll take Duncan, Malone, and Howard before I would consider Garnett.

[flamesbball84]

Tim Duncan is so OVERrated it's not even funny. David Robsinon, Manu, and Tony Parker has carried his butt to the nba title every single year he has won it.

Only thing David Robinson carried was an intact legacy to retirement.

Manu? Carried Duncan? HAH!

If anything, we saw in these playoffs that PEIRCE and ALLEN carried an often SOFT KG. KG had to be trained and taught by a coach that "Hey kid, you're 7 feet tall, go inside." And even still, he was hesitant, and not dominant. Duncan is dominant. He is fundamentally sound, he makes it look easy. You never see flashy, you never see ridiculous plays. Duncan is to post play what Hank Aaron was to fielding. Hank Aaron never made the crazy diving plays, because he was smart. He always got the right jump on the ball. So he wasn't making Jim Edmonds dives, because he was sound fundamentally and didn't have to resort to craziness. Thats Duncan... you don't see the runners in the lane one handed and the reverse falling down layups and the fade away jumpers... you see well prepared and executed offense. If I could start my NBA team with any veteran player (More than 10 years experience) It would be Duncan. He knows how to play the game, and makes his team worlds better. It's just a shame he has had to carry a team that is stagnating and getting old and banged up. (Yes, I said Tim is carrying the Spurs).

Tim Duncan is the best Power Forward ever. Period. He wins. He scores. He rebounds. He defends. He wins some more.

The Spurs have been nothing short of a Dynasty since he entered the league. They have been to the West what Detroit has been to the East. They are the one team you don't want any part of in the playoffs, the one team that no one cares about when making their sexy pre season picks, but who always finish in the top 4. The 6 division titles and 4 championships should pretty much prove what kind of dominant figure Duncan is.

And who was it that carried him to victory in the 99 series? An ancient Admiral? Sean Elliot? Avery Johnson?

However, I look at KG's record, and I see only one Division title, and that was in '04, when they actually progressed in the playoffs for the first time since KG had been there, and they promptly lost to the Lakers...

No conference title's.

No championships.

Until Paul Peirce worked his butt off and let KG share it, that is.

I mean seriously, what kind of "best PF ever" struggles to perform when Kendrick Perkins isn't out there at the 5 to help him? He needs Kendrick Perkins that bad?

Sheesh.

I'll take Duncan, Malone, and Howard before I would consider Garnett.

Put Duncan opn that sorry Minnesota squad and he doesn;t win anything either.

And Duncan is NOT a power forward, the fact that people think he is a power forward is one of the biggest shams ever created by the NBA. He spends 62% (29.76 minutes) of a 48-minute game at the center and 4% (1.92 minutes) at power forward according to http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS20C.HTM

[thepostman]

Duncan would've been more successful then KG on those teams in my opinion...and who cares if he's called a PF or Center....it doesn't change much man...that is how much better of a leader Duncan is...

I also found it funny you called Duncan a whiner when KG whines just as much as anybody in the nba...

and when mentioned to a friend about this thread he said, "I would much rather have someone who majored with honors in psychology at Wake Forest then some guy who just graduated high school"....i laughed when he said that...

[TDDance234]

I can't believe someone things TD isn't clutch, either. Go back and watch the Suns game from the first round where TD put the nail in the coffin with a three (his first all season, BTW) with just a few seconds left.

The reality of it is...KG is in the top-10 of all time for PF's, IMO, he trails Timmy.

[RubberMallet]

being one that has met kevin garnett....the guy is a cork on the fork retard... did you hear his post game interview?...what a dummy

[thepostman]

being one that has met kevin garnett....the guy is a cork on the fork retard... did you hear his post game interview?...what a dummy

you mean this interview....

an idiot and borderline psychotic....

[RubberMallet]

being one that has met kevin garnett....the guy is a cork on the fork retard... did you hear his post game interview?...what a dummy

you mean this interview....

an idiot and borderline psychotic....

he reminded me of the ultimate warrior

[thepostman]

being one that has met kevin garnett....the guy is a cork on the fork retard... did you hear his post game interview?...what a dummy

you mean this interview....

an idiot and borderline psychotic....

he reminded me of the ultimate warrior

hahaha....yeah...i thought of the ultimate warrior when i first saw that interview.....