If you want to talk ASUN smack or ramble ad nauseum about your favorite pro or major college teams, this is the place to let it rip.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

who will win the NBA Finals?

miami heat
9
75%
dallas mavericks
3
25%
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By bigsmooth
Registration Days Posts
#17665
im surprised we have not had much chatter on the playoffs, b/c it has been really good this year. im glad to see different teams in the finals. i love seeing the heat in there becasue of shaq, and the mavs, b/c of mark cuban. ideally i would want the ehat to win it all, so shaq could stick it to kobe, and then he could retire, but i also have no problem with the mavs either. everyone seems to think the mavs are a lock, but i will say heat in 7 games.
By TIMSCAR20
Registration Days Posts
#17669
I think the Mavs will win but like you Smoothie I wouldn't mind either team winning it for virtually the same reasons. Although I would add in Alonzo Morning getting to the finals is huge and Pat Riley taking over the team from Stan Van Gundy seems to have been a good move right now. Also the fact that it would be cool for Avery Johnson to win it in his first full season. Lots of good stuff going on there. You are right. The playoffs have been sensational this year. I can't remember the last time I really got into it like I have this year. Possibly 1998 in Jordan's last season when NBC still had the TV package. It has been very compelling and it really helps that San Antonio and Detroit got knocked out. Like you I am surprised there hasn't been more chatter on here as well. I can't wait to see what happens though. I guess I will be rooting for the Mavs now since I am on record for picking them.
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#17678
Pat Riley will win, he doesnt know how to lose at the biggest stage in basketball

BTW....PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read The Winner Within by Pat Riley....it's an older book now but still one of the greatest books for business leaders and coach's...I was talking to John Hart former known better for the Indians than the Rangers but I heard a speech of his and it reminded me of it and I asked him if he's ever read it, and he said it's his Bible and he keeps it open on his desk at all times....it's great guys

sorry for that rant, just go read it, you can get it on ebay for like $5 so there's no excuse!

Back on topic!
By thesportscritic
Registration Days Posts
#17683
The Miami Heat are playing really well right now. The match up with Dirk and Shaq ought to be something to watch. Dallas can run so if they can transition and wear down Shaq in the playoffs and get Dirk and company off then Dallas will win. If Miami can keep it in the half court and pound the ball inside to Shaq and Wade goes off from the perimeter then they would win. Jason Williams was the x factor in game 6 against the Pistons. So if the Heat get the same support outside of Shaq and Wade then the Heat could win the series. I can't wait to watch game 1.
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By bigsmooth
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#17688
i agree critic that j-will will have to be the x-factor. if the heat can get something out of antoine walker, udonis haslem or j-will they have a great chance. dallas is more balanced IMHO, but i doubt shaq will be guarding dirk. dirk's game is outside the paint.
By thesportscritic
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#17694
If they have to guard each other (Shaq and Dirk) then Dirk has the advantage because he can pull shaq out of the lane if it is a one on one situation. But Shaq will most likely just stay in the lane.
By TIMSCAR20
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#17695
Shaq and Dirk won't cross paths. The Mavs are deep and big and can spend their fouls on Shaq. I say the Mavs in 6.
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By jcmanson
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#17699
It will be a tough series no doubt. I think the Heat will pull it out though. If you noticed in Game 6 of the series with the Bulls, and then again against the Pistons, Shaq was his old dominant self. He is focused this year, and will not let a championship slip through his fingers. With D-Wade as his backup, and Toine and J dub helping out he will get another ring. Bank it.
By givemethemic
Registration Days Posts
#17720
Well I said this back in October that these two teams were gonna met for the tittle... I have said all year long how much I like the Mavs... There is no way Shaq is going to be guarding Dirk, the Mavs have enough big guys to just beat on Shaq.. I don't think that the Heat have an answer for Dirk in this series.. I think the X-factor in this series is Josh Howard, I don't think that James Posey or Walker can guard him..Also I think the play of Jason Williams is very important to watch for, as much I like Williams he has got to be in control and can not be taking crazy shots not designed in the offense.. Look for a very good series and in the end the Mavs winning in Game 7!!!! Mark Cuban gets his first title and Dirk will be the MVP as well..
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By bigsmooth
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#18449
well after the first two games, i thought the heat were dead in the water, but they have really surprised me and now have the lead. but i can easily see the mavs winning the final two to win it.....just part of my conspiracy theory on the NBA. I have grwon tired of avery johnson and his crying. stackhouse should have been suspended and every call avery is over there whining. he is certainly small enough that a diaper could be applied, and a pacifier in his mouth to shut him up.
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By PAmedic
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#18452
SMOOTHIE up and at'em early this AM- ready to go, right outta the gate!
By A.G.
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#18456
The NBA will NOT allow the series to NOT go 7 games--especially since hockey gets a game 7. Then, expect the NBA to hose Cuban on his own court in game 7.
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By Brokeback Flamer
Registration Days Posts
#18519
A.G. wrote:The NBA will NOT allow the series to NOT go 7 games--especially since hockey gets a game 7. Then, expect the NBA to hose Cuban on his own court in game 7.
Well they certainly screwed him in Miami!! Still looking for that foul. It is now official, D Wade is the next MJ, b/c he apparently is getting the same type of calls that MJ did. Plus, what the heck with the TO??? The Ref who called it was right next to Avery, he HAD to hear he wanted it after the 2nd shot. I wonder why the official granted that one? Here is what probably should have happened. "Coach, did you wnat that TO now or after the shot?" Case closed. Or "my bad, he said second shot, play on." Where are the soccer refs when we need em?
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By bigsmooth
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#18728
brokeback must love mark cuban! anyway congrats to the heat for finishing off the mavs! d-wade is a superstar and shaq gets his 4th ring. i really thought these guys were dead in the water, but to win four straight was awesome. and as much as i ripped avery johnson earlier, we was gracious in defeat.
By thesportscritic
Registration Days Posts
#18732
The Heat deserved to win the series. They made the plays and Dwayne Wade was just awesome. He literally carried that team when the Heat was down.
By TIMSCAR20
Registration Days Posts
#18736
The Heat did deserve to win. There is such a fine line between winning and losing though. Mavs blow a 13 point 4th quarter lead in game 3 and lose by 2. OT in game 5 could have gone either way. Mavs could have easily won 4 of the 1st 5 games. Crazy. I am really happy for Zo. He deserves a ring. GP finally got one but he has been chasing Shaq around trying to ride him to a ring for years. Great series. It will be tough for the Mavs to get this far again. They were so close to not getting there at all VS San Antonio and Phoenix. It is just not that easy in the West. Not a big Cuban fan but I do understand his complaints against the officials. Not that they cost him the championship but there were some calls that were questionable. Your team has 48 minutes of actual gameplay to win or lose though so you can hardly ever blame officials for a loss IMHO. Happy for Shaq getting his 4th. Only Robert Horry has more rings among active players now.
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#18746
I cant believe some of you guys didnt think my man Rile's would pull it out...he plays these masterful mind games with his team kinda like Jackson but a little different, and he'll make the players play the best ball for him

Heck you heard Shaq keep saying how this is the best coach he's ever had! Tell me that's not a shot at someone on the Left Coast
By Realist
Registration Days Posts
#18749
I really like Dwade and Shaq, but the Mavs got hosed in the series. Read the Bill Simmons article on Espn and how the worst Refs in the NBA work games where it is in the NBA's best interest for a certain team to win. I don't necessarily think the NBA is fixed, but I definitely think that it isn't necessarily just decided by the players. Stern is a powerful commish and a very shady one.
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By bigsmooth
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#18762
how did the mavs get hosed? please don't tell me you are talking about the supposed back-court call? the rule book said it was the right call. pls. do not say it's b/c of stack's suspension. it was a hard foul for this day...never mind that it was shaq he has a super human body. anyone else they could have been hurt. i too have my conspiracy theories on the NBA, but the mavs had every chance to go up 3-0 and choked, and quite frankly did not do what they had to do to win the title.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#18766
Realist wrote:I really like Dwade and Shaq, but the Mavs got hosed in the series. Read the Bill Simmons article on Espn and how the worst Refs in the NBA work games where it is in the NBA's best interest for a certain team to win. I don't necessarily think the NBA is fixed, but I definitely think that it isn't necessarily just decided by the players. Stern is a powerful commish and a very shady one.
Realist, we agree on something. I don't necessarily think the Mavs got hosed (they did get some crappy calls) but the Simmons article is exactly right. I think he's the only one with the balls to say it.
By Realist
Registration Days Posts
#18788
Here is what superjon and I were talking about (Simmons) I posted the link for the rest of the article, but this is about the refs:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ons/060620

Back to Stackhouse's "hard" foul: I watched all of Game 4, as well as SportsCenter after the game, and not a single announcer wondered whether Stack was retaliating for Shaq's three-stitch elbow in Game 1. For God's sake, do you know anything about Jerry Stackhouse? He's one of the toughest dudes in the league -- if you made a list of "Players whose sister you wouldn't want to accidentally sleep with," he'd be right up there. When that Shaq elbow happened and Stackhouse was nodding angrily afterward -- like, "OK, so that's how we're playing, gotcha" -- I specifically remember thinking to myself, "I can't wait for the moment when Stack tries to get him back."



So when he cracked him in Game 4, that was my first reaction: "There it was! I knew it!" But it was a totally legal foul, and only the replay betrayed him -- in slow-motion from one angle, you could see Stack sizing Shaq up for a brief second, much like the Posey-Hinrich incident in Round 1, and that's what ended up getting him suspended. And here's where the NBA has lost its grip a little bit. Shaq was running loose toward the basket for a free dunk and probably outweighs Stackhouse by 125 pounds. If Stackhouse did anything BUT foul Shaq as hard as he could, he would have bounced off Shaq like a 5-foot-10 cornerback bouncing off Antonio Gates, Shaq would have made the layup for a potential three-point play, and Hubie Brown would have told us, "See, now, when you are fouling in that situation ... you cannot ... give up ... the three-point play." Basically, Stackhouse was screwed either way.



So here's my question: At what point are we compromising the competitiveness of these games? If you've ever played basketball, then you know that s---, um, staff happens during a competitive game. It's not abnormal for two teammates to start screaming at one another. It's not abnormal for someone to foul someone else a little bit harder than he intended. It's not abnormal for two opponents to start exchanging some good-natured barbs -- if anything, that kind of dialogue always livens up the game and gets everyone else going.



Believe me, I understand why we reached this point -- in the late-'90s, an entire generation of players weaned on hard fouls (like the McHale-Rambis clothesline), trash-talking superstars (like Bird and MJ) and constant woofing (from the Fab Five and UNLV in particular) ended up taking all three of those elements to inappropriate levels. I concede this point. But haven't we swung too much the other way now? For instance, when LeBron psyched out Gilbert Arenas at the free-throw line in the final game of the Cavs-Wiz series, that was one of my favorite moments of the playoffs -- not only that LeBron had the confidence to do something like that, but that it reminded me of something that would happen on the playground, just two ballers talking smack before a big moment.



Of course, the NBA decided that this was deplorable and ordered their referees to prevent this from ever happening again. (God forbid the last two minutes of an NBA game was anything other than formulaic and predictable.) But I think this is one of the reasons why I enjoy watching those games from the '80s so much -- not just because of the style of play (constantly moving, constantly going) but the competitive energy that never seemed to wane. Now guys are allowed to compete, but only to a point. It's like a glorified youth soccer game with more fans. And out of everything that's happened in the Stern Era, this was their biggest mistake. Well, other than continuing to have Bennett Salvatore work playoff games.



Officially Speaking
Note: I'm not saying I agree with these perspectives ... but here's a very fair sampling of the e-mails that drifted into my mailbox on Sunday night and Monday morning.


I do solemnly swear, this 19th day of June, 2006 that I will never watch an NBA game again. Everyone is supposed to say what a great game that was with a straight face? At least the WWE has the grace to give you a wink. If watching a man in a flak jacket and thigh pads repeatedly throw himself into defenders to draw foul calls is what passes for "competition," or better yet watching said man hit layups because no one can breathe on him, I believe I can live without [it]. Why would anyone follow a "sport" that employs Dick Bavetta and Stu Jackson? All that was missing was David Stern running onto the court with a steel chair, ABC execs in tow. Bill Simmons, I name thee prophet. It went down exactly as you said it would.
-- James, Richmond, Virginia



Twenty-five free-throw attempts is nonsense, not even MJ would have gotten some of those foul calls. And I'm not just saying this because I'm a bitter Pistons fan. Sixty-year-old officials should not be officiating 20-something-year-old professional athletes.
-- Paul, Detroit, Mich.



Have you ever, I mean EVER, seen a guy get more calls than Wade in Game 5? As staggering as it is to even think it, much less say it out loud, this surpasses the level of calls Jordan used to get in the playoffs. Simply AMAZING. I am a die-hard NBA fan, and I understand and accept the whole "stars get calls" factor, but this is an insane new level. Every time Wade falls down (even if not touched) he gets a call. You called it in your preview, the refs were gonna give some games to Miami, and they did.
-- Jonathan, Raleigh, N.C.



Please admit to everyone that the treatment Dwyane Wade is receiving is absolutely absurd. The final play in Game 5 summed it up: He commits a backcourt violation, pushes off on Terry, then goes wildly to the bucket and gets bailed out on a phantom foul call. Is what the NBA has to do to create its star of the future?
-- Mark, Chicago



I watch very little NBA basketball; however, as the playoffs have been playing out, I have found myself watching more and more games, becoming more interested. Then comes the Finals and I feel like I am watching pro wrestling, except I can fool myself into thinking those matches aren't fixed. At least it makes the NBA the easiest sport to gamble on.
-- Jeremy Louden, Cincinnati



I want to say something about Dwayne Wade, but I fear I may get called for a foul.
-- Warren, Ludington, Mich.



Unfortunately you were right that the NBA finals could come down to the officials. David Stern would rather choke to death on his own vomit than hand Mark Cuban the trophy. It's clear he instructed the refs to take an active interest in the outcomes of the games. Every time Wade drives the lane the refs call a foul on whoever is closest.
-- Jeff, Baltimore



After witnessing the Game 5 debacle, I am absolutely convinced that Stern is trying to fix the Finals for D-Wade and the Heat. Stackhouse's suspension, Dirk's phantom foul in OT, and then Joey Crawford's inexplicable call for a Mavs timeout -- it all adds up too perfectly. This could be a conspiracy as far-reaching as Watergate. I can already imagine the inevitable ESPN movie, "All The Commissioner's Men," where a stubborn, upstart young sports columnist brings down Stern and the entire NBA hierarchy. So, Simmons, the only question is: Will you be our Bob Woodward?
-- Robert P., Topeka, Kan.



All the comparisons between Wade and Jordan need to stop right now. There's no way Jordan would have gotten that call in the final seconds of Game 5.
-- Chris Richardson, Charleston, W.V.



• Speaking of the refs, Game 5 of the Finals took its rightful place alongside Game 7 of the Seattle-Phoenix series in 1993, Game 6 of the Kings-Lakers series in 2002, Game 5 of the Knicks-Celtics series in 1973 and some of the other famous entries in the Pantheon of One-Sided Officiated Games. We're running some e-mails in a sidebar (look to the right), but you know it's bad when the owner of the losing team runs out onto the floor to stare down the commissioner after the game -- the last time that happened at a sporting event, Vince McMahon was involved.



(FYI: In today's Miami Herald, Greg Cote writes that Cuban was screaming profanely at referee Joe DeRosa right after the game, "then turned to Stern and other NBA officials who were seated at the scorer's table and was overheard to shout venomously in the jubilant din, '[Bleep] you! [Bleep] you! Your league is rigged!'" Remember when I wrote that, on a scale of 1-to-10 about being excited for the moment when Stern handed Cuban the trophy, I was a 35? Now I'm a 72. Although Cuban did deny saying this on his blog.)

I tackled this in a Cowbell blog last year, but it's worth rehashing again: The NBA doesn't fix games. That's impossible. And stupid. It could never happen. (Well, except for the Hubert Davis game -- that was fixed. Just kidding. Kind of.) A few months ago, I looked David Stern in the eye and asked him about the ongoing officiating problems, and he seemed agonized enough about it that I actually believed him. Unless he was pulling a DeNiro-level acting performance on me. Which I doubt. But there are three major problems here.



First, Dwyane Wade shot as many free throws (25) as the entire Dallas team in Game 5. I just don't see how there's any way this can happen in a fairly-called game. It's theoretically impossible.



Second, everyone knew the officiating would be a problem heading into this series because of Cuban's past problems with the league. In my Finals preview, I wrote that "No team depends on the refs quite like the Heat. When the refs are calling all the bumps on Shaq and protecting Wade on every drive, they're unstoppable. When they're calling everything fairly, they're eminently beatable. If they're not getting any calls, they're just about hopeless. I could see the refs swinging two games in Miami's favor during this series, possibly three. In fact, I'm already depressed about it and the series hasn't even started yet." Well, we had our two games -- Game 3 (the last five minutes were just obscene) and Game 5 (again, a top-five debacle). And the series isn't over yet.



Third, here's a theory on referees that I described in a blog last spring:



"I don't think the NBA fixes games, but they have one trick that they use for situations like this -- when they want a home team to win the game, they invariably assign the worst referees possible to that game for two reasons: Bad referees have a tendency to get swayed by the home crowd, and bad referees never have the stones to make a tough call on the road. In a related story, I went to 35 Clippers games this year and kept a list of the referees in my pocket which I also used to follow the referees for any televised games. And yes, the referees in the NBA -- as a whole -- have never been worse. But there were six referees that stuck out as being especially terrible."



Then I went on to list the worst six referees. Here was No. 2 on the list:



"2. Bennett Salvatore -- Always one of the worst, he took it to another level this season. If you see him on the court at the start of the game, get ready for about six technicals, two near-brawls and both coaches having to be restrained by their assistants at various times."



Why is this relevant? Not only did Salvatore officiate Game 4 of the Suns-Lakers series (the one where Kobe tied it at the end of regulation and won it at the end of OT on two shaky non-calls on Nash, both by Salvatore), not only did Salvatore officiate Sunday night's Game 5 (in which Miami had a 40-12 free-throw advantage at one point), but Salvatore called the foul on Wade's final drive in overtime (remember, the call where ABC couldn't find a replay to show that anyone touched him?) even though he was standing at midcourt a full 35-40 feet from the play, and even though two other refs were closer to the play. Not only was that NOT his call, he butchered it.



Considering I brought this up LAST spring, do you find any of this a little strange? Why aren't the best referees calling these games? Why do the worst ones always seem to get assigned to games in which it would be better for the league if the home team won? Why am I the only one who notices this stuff or seems to care? Why do I find myself watching these games and concentrating more on the one-sided officiating than some of Wade's spectacular plays? As my buddy House e-mailed on Monday morning: "I don't think I can take much more of NBA refs insisting on controlling the outcomes of the most significant games. The NBA is a disgrace and should be completely embarrassed. I hate this game."



And that's coming from one of the last 19 NBA diehards -- I can only imagine what the casual fans thought after watching such a one-sided travesty. Look, we all love Dwyane Wade. He's fantastic. But there's absolutely no scenario in which a 2-guard should be attempting as many free throws as everyone on the other team. It's absolutely unfathomable. And here's what really kills me: If there's a Game 7, you KNOW they'll come up with the best possible officials for that particular game. So why wouldn't every Finals game work like that? We have seven possible games spread over 17 days ... they couldn't pick the best three or four refs and have them work every game, like how MLB picks the best seven umps to comprise the World Series crew? Why wouldn't that work? Is there a single reason you can come up with? Arrrrrrrrgh.
By Libertine
Registration Days Posts
#18798
SuperJon wrote: I think he's the only one with the balls to say it.
I think Simmons is the only one who still cares. I gave up on the NBA the moment MJ pushed off on Byron Russell. At that point, I was jaded enough that it didn't necessarily bother me that he got away with it. What got me was that the league gives its icons so much latitude that Jordan knew he could do it and get away with it. To me, that changes the entire spirit of the game and it's no longer worth watching even just for the sake of spectacle. I'd rather watch reruns of Steelers-Seahawks. Oh, wait....
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#18802
This just in: The NBA will follow the lead of Vince McMahan and change its name to NBE - National Basketball Entertainment!!!! Are the games fixed? I think you could make that argument, but I am not sold. Does the league favor certain players? Ever since Magic started playing point guard! (Great player, abuser of "palmin") There has been serious "interpretation" seepage in the league. I am still waiting to see half the fouls called for D Wade. What was with that time out? Totally botched easily corrected, situation difused. I am not sure I buy into the whole "worst" crews scene, but something is up. I was watching the game, part of it, with a friend of mine and we both commented that we were watching the playofffs A MONTH AND A HALF AGO in another city!!! Maybe it is b/c I am an old fart, but after the first Jordan run, I gave up on the NBA. Too much entertainment, not enough sport. LOVE mark cuban though. Best thing for the league since George Mikan!!!
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