This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By A.G.
Registration Days Posts
#15474
Great stuff, Brokeback. Tennessee faces the opposite problem, by ALLOWING the privates to play in the TSSAA. Every few years, the publics get on a kick to boot the privates, b/c of recruiting and competition issues, which is why the VHSL will fight every challenge to keep the league PUBLIC only. If a talented athlete could get a good private school education AND play the same (or even better) competition, then you would see the privates begin to dominate just as they do in Tennessee. Me? I prefer seperate and unequal.
By Libertine
Registration Days Posts
#15476
Unfortunately, this isn't just a case of other individual schools not wanting to schedule LCA. What's happening is an actual organized boycott of ALL LCA sports by all VHSL schools in this area. The VHSL school reps are denying this, of course, because that would be illegal. However, David Rocco, the head coach at Staunton River HS and also Frank Rocco's younger brother, was informed this past winter by his superiors that he is not allowed to schedule even so much as a scrimmage against LCA in any sport.

I don't like to see LCA taking the legal route either but their application to join the VHSL was denied last month. LCA has, in my opinion, outgrown the VIC and if LCA's athletic programs are going to continue to grow as they hope, then something's got to give. Legal action is apparently the only option left to them.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#15479
Down here in Texas, the publics foresaw a lawsuit coming and decided to allow a select few privates in who met specific standards. As result, only two privates qualified which were a pair of all-male Jesuit schools with enrollments large enough to be in the largest classification of public schools. They had to agree to strict non-recruiting standards, eliminate athletic scholarships and stop taking reclassified athletes (i.e. 5th year seniors).

On another note, two of our top private programs (John Hagee's Cornerstone in San Antonio and Stephon Leary's old school here in Houston called Cypress Community Christian) that recruit overseas players had to forfeit their entire seasons in hoops this past fall. Now they are caught in a spot where they may have to choose between not using all these internationals they have on campus and staying in the main priavte league or going to a travelling team like Oak Hill. They are both still trying to make that call. Its an expensive proposition to travel unless you vcan collect guarantees to cover the costs.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#15482
There's a school in Raleigh that just joined the NCHSAA that is a private school. They have won the 3 or 4 state championships already this year. I don't like privates being in the same league as publics.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#15484
Libertine wrote:However, David Rocco, the head coach at Staunton River HS and also Frank Rocco's younger brother, was informed this past winter by his superiors that he is not allowed to schedule even so much as a scrimmage against LCA in any sport.
Boy I really want to send my kids to public schools. The can't even run a freaking illegal boycott correctly.
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By bigsmooth
Registration Days Posts
#15489
i must weigh in here. LCA has hurt the other private schools in lynchburg by their crying and wanting to be in the VHSL. i would wager that if this inclusion issue to the VHSL was never brought up, then this boycott would not have happened. holy cross and timberlake usually play public schools from the seminole, and there has never been a problem...and yes they are competitive and sometimes they actually win! until LCA quits recruiting they will not win a lawsuit. this is one time i really get upset with LU and the ministry, as they try to strong arm when they do not get their way. LCA has usually played publics and now look what they have done to the rest of the area schools. i think the boycott is wrong, but it is a school's decision who they play. this is a football driven deal, b/c the VIC is not the greatest in football. but as to HMO saying the VIC is weak, well you are way off base. it is perinenally one of the best leagues in the state in hoops, and right there in soccer, baseball, and the other sports. i played at two VIC schools and the quality of play in hoops is way better than the seminole. i know LCA would save on travel costs and would most likely be a Single A school, but this is a stupid idea. LCA was had ups and downs in its athletics, and right now they are certainly hot. the idea of splitting the VIC is a good idea and that has been thrown around since rke. catholic came back to the VIC. some of the member schools of the VIC do not recruit and some do, so why not go the recruited divsion and be happy? there are enough privates in the state to schedule football games, or public schools out of the lynchburg area. it is a shame that LCA has hurt the other privates in lynchburg by their complaining.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#15495
While we're at it we'll ask any private school that wants in, to hire less qualified teachers. We don't want those private schoolers to be any smarter than the kids they're playing either. It wouldnt be fair to compare standardized test scores. After we've done that we might as well just take their parents money and redistribute it to the poor so everybody's equal.
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#15504
bigsmooth wrote:LCA has hurt the other privates


how did they do that? A swift kick or tapping until you cry? :lol:


but really the VIC is weak in everything except Hoops....at least it was when I was playing in it just a few years ago....baseball is the weakest, one day you're facing a girl pitcher, then you play legion and your getting a 90MPH fastball
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#15509
Speaking of the VIC-who let VES come over from the Prep League?
By A.G.
Registration Days Posts
#15516
When HMO and I say the VIC is weak--it is in comparison to the area public schools. It IS pretty much a joke. Serves a purpose though, if you don't have the grades or are not talented enough (the RARE exception being a couple of certain LCA football players) to play in the public school. I know a good number of kids who transferred, or should I say, "daddy" transferred them, to LCA or VES for those very reasons.
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By Brokeback Flamer
Registration Days Posts
#15518
Is this "boycott" illegal? I think that is what the lawsuit is going to find out. I am not sure it IS illegal. For instance, if one VHSL school does not want to play another VHSL school, THAT could be called a boycott and THAT is not seen as "illegal" (Unless it is a conference foe) Why bust the VHSL's chops for doing what they want to do?
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#15519
I only assumed it was because Libertine said it was and he seem like a knowledgeable fellow. But normally when there is a backroom agreement to try and harm another entity, it tends to be illegal. Like if many rival companies got together decided to keep a price of their commodity high despite the market dictating it to come down. That's illegal. I don't know why but it is.
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By Brokeback Flamer
Registration Days Posts
#15520
LUconn wrote:I only assumed it was because Libertine said it was and he seem like a knowledgeable fellow. But normally when there is a backroom agreement to try and harm another entity, it tends to be illegal. Like if many rival companies got together decided to keep a price of their commodity high despite the market dictating it to come down. That's illegal. I don't know why but it is.
Collusion is what you are discussing. That holds true to some entities but not others. This would be one that it proably does not
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#15524
Well I guess that's the aspect that's up for debate and why LU, er, LCA is suing in the first place.
By Libertine
Registration Days Posts
#15526
I should clarify my use of the term "illegal". Unlike most of the rest of the country, keeping the privates and publics in separate leagues is not illegal in the state of Virginia. It's something akin to segregation but it's not strictly illegal. However, the organized boycott and collusion of publicly-funded entities (ie., the VHSL) is illegal which is why the VHSL denies that the boycott is in place. If LCA's side can prove collusion -- and I think they can -- any half-decent civil rights attorney could have the VHSL rule overturned in a heartbeat.

Personally, I think LCA should have called in the ACLU for this one, just for the irony factor.
By A.G.
Registration Days Posts
#15527
For instance, if one VHSL school does not want to play another VHSL school, THAT could be called a boycott and THAT is not seen as "illegal" (Unless it is a conference foe) Why bust the VHSL's chops for doing what they want to do?
My dad told me about the Piedmont District doing something like that to Martinsville back in the 70's--when they were dominating AA in football. He said they had to play all non-conference games and designate five of them as "conference" games. So, yes, there is prescendent for VHSL schools doing the exact same things to other member schools.
By jimflamesfan
Registration Days Posts
#15538
This of course is not why LCA is suing...but I think the separation of public and private schools in sports is wrong. First, only two states allow this. Second, it forces parents that send their kids to a private school to sacrifice some athletic oppertunities.

In Western PA, there seemed
to be a lot more support for private schools. The government even provided bussing for the private schools where I lived...based on the idea that the parents still pay the same taxes...does anyone know if LCA gets free bussing from the city of Lynchburg? (I doubt it).

To me...its not a matter of LCA complaining...its a matter of some of Lynchburg still trying to act as if LU/LCA/and Thomas Road don't exist.

But to me...it would seem better strategy to try to change the state statute, that to prove a boycott?? I'm no expert, though.
By Chris Lang
Registration Days Posts
#15548
As the current rules stand, any public school would be penalized for playing football against a private school ... i.e. getting no power points for the playoffs. If I'm at Brookville, why would I play LCA for no gain when I could at least play Tunstall and get credit toward a playoff berth?

As for the point about the Liberty Counsel strongarming with legal action when things don't go LU's way? Well, that certainly does seem to be the case here. LCA would have been better off forming a big sort of coalition with the other private schools in the area (VES, Timberlake, Holy Cross). Instead, it seems, to the public at least, like a good bit of senseless whining from LCA. That's the impression I'm getting from people, anyway.
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By Brokeback Flamer
Registration Days Posts
#15553
I am not sure even IF there was "back room" meeting (this was actually an email in one school) saying that the public school will not be allowed to play private schools that it is illegal. These VHSL schools belong to a conference, as members of that conference they are MUST play conference schools, but are free to schedule their non conference games as they wish. If Brookvlle doesn't want to play EC Glass, then they don't have to. Why should this be different when it comes to private schools? If they don't want to play them , why should they be forced to? Further, the football power rankings play a HUGE part in this as well in that sport. Why waste a week? Finally, a "level" playing field is still an issue. When ineligible public school athletes are eligible to play at LCA, then the public school and private school are not playing on the same "field" Add to that the 5th year and other "perks" of private schools (LCA particularly, that 4 year free college education is nice) and you have good reasons why 1) these schools don't want to play LCA and 2) why LCA will not , in it s present form, gain membership into the VHSL.
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By bigsmooth
Registration Days Posts
#15555
HMO, It is simple. LCA's trying to gain entrance into the VHSL, is the main reason IMHO that this "boycott" is taking place, and it trickled down to the other privates as they are part of the "boycott" . It will be very hard to prove, and it is any school's right not to play LCA, or for brookville not to play EC Glass. i could see if LCA was just crushing everyone they play in the VIC, but that is not the case, except for football. To answer Atrain's question, VES was getting crushed in the prep league since the late 80's. they formed a seperate football league b/c they were not competitive, but stayed in the prep league in all other sports till last year. they are a first year member in the VIC.
By A.G.
Registration Days Posts
#15559
Now the public schools are hurting themselves. Pulling out of the LU 7 on 7 passing camp? Pulling out of the big benefit basketball tournament at the Vines? That's just DUMB!!!

http://www.newsadvance.com/servlet/Sate ... th=!sports

Pittsylvania not part of LCA boycott

By Nathan Warters
Lynchburg News & Advance
May 19, 2006

The Pittsylvania County school system is no longer included among the school systems targeted for a potential lawsuit by Liberty Christian Academy.

The PCS was included in a letter sent to the superintendents of eight public school districts on Tuesday that threatened a lawsuit because of a perceived boycott by the public school systems.

Pittsylvania County Schools Superintendent James E. McDaniel said the PCS schools aren't boycotting anyone.

"I wasn't aware that a boycott was going on," he said. "We're not part of that. We still have games scheduled for next year with LCA, so I don't know where they got their information from."

LCA believes that the area's public schools are giving it the cold shoulder by refusing to play it in any athletic event, and it has decided to take legal action.

Liberty Counsel, an Orlando, Fla.-based legal advocacy group with an office in Liberty University's law school, sent letters to the school districts in the counties of Amherst, Appomattox, Bedford, Campbell, Nelson, Pittsylvania and Prince Edward plus the City of Lynchburg on Tuesday stating that if the perceived snub is not lifted, an antitrust lawsuit will be filed.

McDaniel made a phone call upon first receiving the letter to let LCA know that the PCS never planned to sever its relationship with the Lynchburg-area private school.

"I was puzzled and perplexed," McDaniel said of first reading the letter. "I didn't have any information as to what they were talking about. We're pretty far removed from Lynchburg and what goes on in the city of Lynchburg. Nobody here had informed me that there was an issue until I got the letter, and we didn't think there was an issue. There was no reason for us to think there was an issue, from my perspective."

Pittsylvania County Schools became a target for the lawsuit when Gretna High School joined William Campbell and Altavista in withdrawing from a seven-on-seven football passing league on Monday at Liberty University's Williams Stadium.

"On Monday afternoon, I got calls from those coaches from the Dogwood (District)," LCA athletic director and head football coach Frank Rocco said. "They had various excuses why they had to pull out at the last minute. I found out that the Seminole District got to them and pressured them into indecision. Gretna, William Campbell and Altavista didn't so much support this boycott, but at the time they became indecisive, and they chose not to come Monday night. That's where this Gretna situation occurred."

On Wednesday, Rocco received a phone call from Gretna head football coach Chris Thurman. Rocco said Thurman apologized for pulling out of the passing league. Rocco said the game with Gretna has been rescheduled for later this month.

Thurman had no comment on the situation.

None of the area schools are confirming the alleged boycott, which would be valuable ammunition for LCA's lawsuit.

"We're still inviting them to restore us to where we were before they made this decision, and there's, I guess, eight days left for them to do that, so we're still waiting for them to do it," said Liberty Counsel senior litigation counsel David Corry.

All the principals and athletic directors from the eight Seminole District schools are expected to meet at 10 a.m. today at Heritage High School, and Amherst athletic director William Gouldthorpe said the Liberty Counsel's letter will be a topic of discussion.

When asked about LCA and the Liberty Counsel's letter, Gouldthorpe said, "I'll talk about it after the meeting (today)."

Five Seminole District athletic directors were contacted Thursday, and Gouldthorpe was one of two to go on record about the meeting. Liberty's Stewart Grant confirmed the meeting, but would not comment on whether or not the letter would be discussed.

"I couldn't tell you. The agenda sometimes is sent out and sometimes it isn't," Grant said. "I expect the main agenda is the Seminole District tournaments that are coming up. They start on Monday."

Of the Seminole athletic directors contacted (three did not return phone calls), all denied being part of a boycott of LCA.

"I think it's a reach, but everybody's got their own opinion on the subject," Grant said. "I can't speak for them and what they perceive of what we're doing.

"We look to play schools that have to follow the same rules as us, and we'll consider any one who does that, whether it's public or private. Personally, for Liberty High School, we haven't played LCA in anything. In terms of all that, we haven't really played them in the past anyway."

Corry said LCA, which tried but was denied admittance to the Virginia High School League in early February, is willing to abide by the same rules as the public schools.

"They seem to think that LCA recruits athletes and has scholarships for athletes, and that's absolutely not the case," Corry said. "It's a red herring. LCA has agreed, when they wanted to get in the Virginia High School League, they made it clear that they were prepared to play by all of those rules, and they are willing today to play by those rules even if they are not in the conference."

Appomattox athletic director Bob Hudson said schools should be able to choose who they play.

"For us, we just don't have any openings in our schedule," Hudson said. "We play the district schedule and try to play everybody, all the local schools around us. We don't have room. We never really played (LCA) in sports."

Rocco said he's seen more than a few indications that other schools are giving the Bulldogs the snub.

For one, LCA will not be included on either Staunton River or Jefferson Forest's freshman or junior varsity football schedules next season. The Bulldogs played both Seminole District schools the last two years, but Rocco said neither wants to play them again.

Staunton River athletic director Ricky Falls did not return a phone message Thursday.

Jefferson Forest's Troy Doss said, "We as ADs, we schedule games that are going to be in the best interest of the student athletes."

And LCA's perceived snub?

"I really don't wish to comment on their perceived notions on things," Doss said.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#15560
Everyone's excuses are just so airtight.


As for pulling out of the 7 on 7 deal. That's just petty.
By Libertine
Registration Days Posts
#15566
Interesting story on WSET last night (for once). It seems that the VHSL schools are willing to play VES next year. Here's the link to the story:
http://www.wset.com/news/stories/0506/329139.html
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#15568
They do not recruit! They will however give a scholarship...but scholarship doesn't equal recruitment....LCA did not actively seek these players they come to them and then LCA tells them what they can do for them ($$$ off tuition) That's foolish to say just because they give scholarships they are recruiting

By the way, I'm talking about the opinion someone had under the article
By Libertine
Registration Days Posts
#15570
The schools themselves do not recruit athletes. That is absolutely true.
However, both LCA and VES along w/ nearly every private school in the nation -- and, frankly, most public schools as well -- do have people who are not employed by the school in any capacity but are usually described as being "close to the program". These people often approach kids who can play but are, for whatever reason, buried on the depth chart. With no tangible connection to another school, these people can approach any kid or parent they like and offer to use their connections at School X to "help the kid out" by getting the kid a better education and getting them a better shot at college scholarships.
So, no, LCA, VES, et al do not physically recruit kids away from other schools. They are, however, in touch with people who do it for them. I know by name one person who currently does this for LCA.
Last edited by Libertine on May 19th, 2006, 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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