[4everfsu]

Pro life and death penalty here! If you take a life then you lose yours. As far as what is right I would follow this scripture. Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceaser and render unto God that which is God. Let see, mankind in the US has the death penalty, if they need someone to throw the switch for a person who is guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt and been judged by his peers I would volunteer for that. With that being said we have abortion on the law books, do I like it, heck no. But we have to follow the law and I hope one day we can reverse it.

[Ed Dantes]

I was born and raised in New Jersey, although I've lived in Virginia ever since first coming down to LU eight years ago. Still, I consider myself to be a Jersey Boy.

I bring this up because my state has become the first in nearly 40 years to ban the death penalty. The did it to consider themselves to be erudite and sophisticated when it comes to matters of civil liberties and life. Yet to the person who considers it hypocritical to be both anti-abortion and pro-capital punishment, I say, is it not equally hypocritical to say that ending a criminal's life is wrong, yet terminating a pregnancy is not?

To me, my support of capital punishment is predicated on two of my beliefs. The first is that things such as "jail" and "death row" are meant as punitive measures towards crime. I now there are a lot of wet-your-pants liberals who believe that extended sentences don't do anything to help or rehabilitate a criminal, and thus are worthless. I agree with the first part of that statement, largely because prisons aren't meant to rehabilitate. Punishment for a crime is just for that -- punishment. If you have sex with underage girls, you should be removed from decent society for a long period of time, and sent to a very bad place (these 60-day sentences that Vermont Judges give out to convicted sex offenders are a joke).

Secondly, I support death penalty because I believe there must be a greater, final punishment to those who have said 'I will not play by your rules'. Basically -- if the worst punishment for someone is life in prison without parole, what's to stop that person from whacking a guard? It's not like that person is going to be affected any if a judge tacks on another life sentence or two. Death Penalty says to a criminal, 'There is a final consequence for your continued actions.'

Let me relate a story from my home state...

There are 8 people on death row, believe it or not, in New Jersey (or were on Death Row). But it's really a joke, no one gets executed. There hasn't been one in New Jersey in 40 years. Criminals know this, too.

This is the story of three people. One, is a guy named Jesse Timmendequas. He's a repeated sex offender, who one day brutally raped and murdered a little girl (because of him, many states have what is known as "Megan's Law"). The other is about a guy named "mud man", a cop killer who got his name because he would smear himself and play with his own... uh... mud. And the third is a guy named Ambrose Harris. Well, Mudman and Harris were fighting over who gets control of Timmendequas. Harris kept beating mudman, kept beating him... and proceeded to leap from a table onto Mudman's head, knee-first -- repeatedly -- crushing mudman's skull -- and killing him.

Well, today, thanks to the repeal of the death penalty -- Harris and Timmendequas are getting a bit of a reprieve. They're no longer on death row.

These are the sick screw-ups who Anti-Death Penalty advocates are helping.

I find it to be not-in-the-least bit hypocritical for me to say that I think that there should be an ultimate punishment for people like Harris & Timmendequas -- and that we should still protect life in the womb.

[Ed Dantes]

For the record:

My stance on the Death Penalty is this:

Six hours before the criminal is led down the Green Mile, he/she is given three things:

1) Their last meal.
2) A rope.
3) A note that says:

Tom Hagen: When a plot against the Emperor failed... the plotters were always given a chance... to let their families keep their fortunes. Right?
Frank Pentangeli: Yeah, but only the rich guys, Tom. The little guys got knocked off and all their estates went to the Emperors. Unless they went home and killed themselves, then nothing happened. And the families... the families were taken care of.
Tom Hagen: That was a good break. A nice deal.

I believe this solves everyone's ethical quandaries, right?

[whmatthews]

How has nobody mentioned this:

JESUS was killed via capitol punishment.... he didn't speak out about it.

[BJWilliams]

How has nobody mentioned this:

JESUS was killed via capitol punishment.... he didn't speak out about it.

Its funny you mention that because I was in church yesterday my pastor mentioned something interesting. Jesus CHrist if he so wanted could have kept himself alive on the cross, if he had so decided to (as the son of God), stayed alive on the cross for any length of time (yes even after they had basically beaten him to a point which would have easily resulted in the death of any one of us, and basically had his heart popped like a balloon), but "he gave up his spirit" (some versions say "he gave up the ghost"). The fact is that yes they used capital punishment on him, but Jesus, though he died, did so to fulfill his role as the sacrifice and propitiation of our sins. I know that doesnt have anything to do with the topic but I thought that was something to consider based on your statement.

[SuperJon]

Read. Acknowledged. All other comments will be kept to myself.

[AZjonz]

I guess my issue with the death penalty is the unfair application of it towards minority males. If you commit a crime worth a penalty of death and you are a minority, you are more likely to receive the death penalty than your white counterpart. If you are a victim (family, friend of the victim) and are a minority you are less likely to see the death penalty used as a tool of justice as opposed to your white counterpart.

There seems to be an institutional valuing of life based on race and I have a hard time accepting that. I know I am not adding anything new or fresh to the death penalty debate, but I think race should be discussed on this.


BTW – to add to the original discussion – I’m pro-life and anti-death penalty. I think the state can be justified (biblically) in using it: I just don’t think the state uses it justly - nor will it ever.

My .02

[whmatthews]

Are you saying the death penalty is racist?

[Cider Jim]

I know that doesnt have anything to do with the topic but I thought that was something to consider based on your statement.

Classic BJ--and that's why we love him.

[Ed Dantes]

How has nobody mentioned this:

JESUS was killed via capitol punishment.... he didn't speak out about it.

I think Jesus had more on his mind at that time than political theory.

[Innocent Bystander]

I am pro-life and pro-death penalty...however, if the left will give in and outlaw abortion, I will meet them halfway and outlaw capital punishment. If you guys can find whoever is in charge of the left and pass on that message, I would appreciate it.

[LUconn]

I guess my issue with the death penalty is the unfair application of it towards minority males. If you commit a crime worth a penalty of death and you are a minority, you are more likely to receive the death penalty than your white counterpart. If you are a victim (family, friend of the victim) and are a minority you are less likely to see the death penalty used as a tool of justice as opposed to your white counterpart.

I do not beleive this. I do believe that more minorities receive the death penalty than white folks. But with each case being unique, I don't even see how you could compare the punishments of whites vs everyone else.

[whmatthews]

I guess my issue with the death penalty is the unfair application of it towards minority males. If you commit a crime worth a penalty of death and you are a minority, you are more likely to receive the death penalty than your white counterpart. If you are a victim (family, friend of the victim) and are a minority you are less likely to see the death penalty used as a tool of justice as opposed to your white counterpart.

I do not beleive this. I do believe that more minorities receive the death penalty than white folks. But with each case being unique, I don't even see how you could compare the punishments of whites vs everyone else.

There are more white people on death row than black people.... I don't think race has anything to do with it.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article ... 1397#chara

[LUconn]

How about that. Although a disproportionate amount are black in comparison to their population. That doesn't mean it's racist though.

[thepostman]

I am pro-life and pro-death penalty...however, if the left will give in and outlaw abortion, I will meet them halfway and outlaw capital punishment. If you guys can find whoever is in charge of the left and pass on that message, I would appreciate it.

I agree with this...If we could get abortion banned I would be more then happy to ban the death penalty as well....but for some reason I don't think that would ever be agreed to

[mrmacphisto]

I find it difficult to justify the death penalty from a moral standpoint. It makes sense to me that a murderer should be executed, as well as those who commit violent sexual crimes and the like, but just because I believe this along with millions of others, does that make it right? I used to think capital punishment was right because it's called for in scripture, but then I realized that these laws were written by God at a time when Israel was living under a Theocracy. America is not Israel, and God has since been voted out of any and all positions of political power, so I don't think enforcement of the Levitical law applies to our nation.

Besides, the biblical brand of justice was only carried out by men when the perpetrator was caught in the act. Nowadays we convict on things like fingerprints, blood and DNA evidence which, although compelling and oftentimes accurate, can be tampered with. If I was to support the death penalty morally, it might be for people who are caught in the act, but probably not for those convicted by circumstantial evidence, hearsay or forensic evidence collected after the fact.

Morals aside, I think murderers and other violent offenders should be put to death. It makes sense in terms of punishment, crime deterrence and revenge for the surviving victims. It also makes sense from a financial standpoint because, as some others have said, I don't want to pay for their room, board and other amenities. I'm in favor of the death penalty for many reasons, but I admit I'm unable to justify it morally.

As far as abortion, I'm very much against it in nearly every case. The only exception is when the mother's life is threatened, at which point it becomes a self-defense issue.

[LUconn]

Morals aside, I think murderers and other violent offenders should be put to death. It makes sense in terms of punishment, crime deterrence and revenge for the surviving victims. It also makes sense from a financial standpoint because, as some others have said, I don't want to pay for their room, board and other amenities. I'm in favor of the death penalty for many reasons, but I admit I'm unable to justify it morally.

The argument against this is often that it costs just as much to execute someone when you take into account all of the added expenses of court appeals and such. However, I just recently read an article about all of the aging and elderly inmates are starting to boom in PA and it is costing them a ton of money.

[cheerbren]

If someone ever touched, tortured, hurt, raped, or killed one of my kids I would already be at fault for murder so I am 100% death penalty. If it were your wife, mom, dad, sister or child you would wish death on them too.

I am pro-life because some women in 1974 was when she gave me up at the age of 16 and had a legal choice.

[AZjonz]

Are you saying the death penalty is racist?

More like institutional racism. Almost 50% of death row is African-American. Why isn't that ever questioned? Shouldn't we at least examine that as a society to determine if it is a race based issue? I think it is - I believe there are some good arguments out there that support that.

[RagingTireFire]

Almost 50% of death row is African-American.

What's the other 50+%?

[AZjonz]

If someone ever touched, tortured, hurt, raped, or killed one of my kids I would already be at fault for murder so I am 100% death penalty. If it were your wife, mom, dad, sister or child you would wish death on them too.

I am pro-life because some women in 1974 was when she gave me up at the age of 16 and had a legal choice.

If someone were to commit a heinous crime against my wife or children I, too, would wish death upon that person. (I assume this – I hope I never have to know).

But, I don’t think this is a good guideline for justifying the death penalty. What if a person is killed and there was no one to mourn that death – does the death penalty not apply? Do we apply the death penalty based on the emotional level of the friends and family of the victim? This a reason why I try not to use an emotional appeal for/against the death penalty both as a personal and a policy advocate.

The death penalty should be used for reasons of justice (not revenge – btw). If there is a racial bias in the system, then justice cannot be achieved; therefore, we should scrap it until it can be fixed - if ever.

[AZjonz]

Almost 50% of death row is African-American.

What's the other 50+%?

Roughly caucasion

[RagingTireFire]

So members of a minority of the overall population make up a minority of the population on death row while, at the same time, members of the majority of the overall population make up a majority of the population on death row. I fail to see how that constitutes institutional racism. If you've got better statistics to justify your statement, I'd be glad to hear them.
Meanwhile, I've got a statistic that I think bears some value: 100% of the people on death row have been convicted of murder.

If there is a racial bias in the system, then justice cannot be achieved; therefore, we should scrap it until it can be fixed - if ever.

If we could scrap murder at the same time, I'd be all for that.

[LUconn]

that's some pretty silly reasoning to cry racism. Especially with the contrary stats posted. Even if it was a disproportionate number of blacks on death row, I bet there's also a disproportionate number of poor blacks vs poor whites. The coralation between income and deathrow makes a lot more sense, don't you think?

[JDUB]

some people throw the race card on anything and everything...