[justagirl]

Okay guys..get some popcorn ready, I am sure this will be quite entertaining.
At work today, me and a fellow co worker were discussing politics (yeah, working at a bank is very boring sometimes.)
I am obviously pro-life but also support the death penalty.
He says this is clearly hypocritical and cannot be biblically sound. Says that supporting the death penalty is unbiblical because a) we are judging the quality of someones life. b) we are playing God by killing someone. and c)God never advocated killing each other.

My main thing is maybe if the system were different I would not be in support of the death penalty..but as it stands now: my tax money being spent on murderers and rapists to be playing basketball, getting tatted up, watching tv, and smoking cigarettes doesn't seem like a whole lot of punishment.

Help! I know someone on here is biblically sound enough to be able to tell me that the death penalty is biblical, and why.

[ToTheLeft]

"Thou shalt not kill"

I don't even buy into the "Just War" thing, because that leaves too much up to man to figure out.

Some scriptures...

Proverbs 24:29

29 Do not say, "I'll do to him as he has done to me;
I'll pay that man back for what he did."

Romans 12:17

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.

Romans 12:19

19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord.

Basically, my thoughts are when we as Americans try and decide who should live or die, we are playing God. It isn't America or its judicial system's job to kill anyone.

Particularly not in the name of "justice", which is nothing but revenge in this case.

[LUconn]

this dude can't see the difference between a guy killing a baby in it's mother's womb and putting an end to a violent murderer? Does this guy have any decision making abilities?


a) we are judging the quality of someones life.

True.

b) we are playing God by killing someone

False. We are putting an end to an individual who has been judged (see part A) by his peers to be someone who is a harm to society.


c)God never advocated killing each other.

False. Murder is not the same think as "killing".


Don't let this guy shake you. He sounds like a greenhorn.

[ToTheLeft]

Well, how is it not murder to judge someone's law-breaking and determine that they should die based on opinions and evidence and oftentimes, hear-say.

That is playing God. Pretending we know what's best for the world, and what's best is to get rid of this person based on these facts...

[SuperJon]

Just playing devil's advocate:

What's the difference in killing and murder? Is it the degree of torture or how inhumane it is? Is it the planning that goes into it?

[ToTheLeft]

Just playing devil's advocate:

What's the difference in killing and murder? Is it the degree of torture or how inhumane it is? Is it the planning that goes into it?

That's where this gets decided. Because if executing someone as a result of a crime is murder, there is no way to defend it as a Christian.

[LUconn]

Well, how is it not murder to judge someone's law-breaking and determine that they should die based on opinions and evidence and oftentimes, hear-say.

That is playing God. Pretending we know what's best for the world, and what's best is to get rid of this person based on these facts...

Dude, I can't even list all of the capital punishments situations in the OT. I had to dig around to find a NT situation but here you go

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

[belcherboy]

Just playing devil's advocate:

What's the difference in killing and murder? Is it the degree of torture or how inhumane it is? Is it the planning that goes into it?

I wouldn't call you a murderer if you killed someone who was pointing a gun at you or your family with the believed intent of harm. Nor would I call a police officer a murderer if he were in the same situation.

I have no problem with executing someone for the protection of society. Not just protecting from the criminal (we don't have to put them to death to do that), but to deter future criminals with the harshest of penalties. I've heard that the death penalty works and does not work in achieving this goal.

[LUconn]

yeah, you can pretty much count on all sorts of crazy statistics to be spouted off in this thread. Saying that capital punishment increased violent crime by 700%. And the next guy will say that it decreased it by 25.8%

[thepostman]

This is an issue I have wrestled with for a long time and I still don't think I know where I stand. I personally feel that murders, especially serial killers, should be put to death...But I always think to myself.."Is this my flesh, or is this truly what God would want"...I have been raised in church all my life...mainly baptist...so I have heard and read all the verses that people use to back up capital punishment and in the end I still don't know where I stand...

I know I did not add anything to this discussion...but I think this is the way of thought of many Christians...they don't want to see murderers released to the streets someday so capital punishment seems like the way to go to prevent that...but is that really want God would want???

who knows...for now I think its something each state should decide, and whatever way the states go is fine with me...

[belcherboy]

yeah, you can pretty much count on all sorts of crazy statistics to be spouted off in this thread. Saying that capital punishment increased violent crime by 700%. And the next guy will say that it decreased it by 25.8%

When it comes to surveys like these, it all depends on whom is doing the survey. I borrowed this from another message board, but I liked it a lot when I read it.

How can anyone equate the execution of a Ted Bundy with the killing of an unborn child? When civilization reserves the death penalty for mass murderers and serial killers, that punishment becomes a moral act. Society must protect its citizens from irredeemable evil. Abortion supporters cannot lump serial killers with innocent unborn. That's like yoking King Herod to those male children 2 years old and younger in first-century Bethlehem.

I don't think my Christianity would be in error if I agreed that not only those who take great amounts of innocent life should be put to death, but those to take part it mass rapes/pedophile activities should be put to death as well. (or severally maimed)

[belcherboy]

who knows...for now I think its something each state should decide, and whatever way the states go is fine with me...

I think that is where I am. I think it is a state thing that has little to do with a Christian's opinion. The only problem is that we elect the people who make these decisions. So we could be partially responsible.

I got a feeling that I will one day find out that many of my opinions were not exactly what God would have wanted me to believe. I just don't think the death penalty is one of them. I'm young, so perhaps that will change.

[El Scorcho]

I think we had another thread about this subject. I think it was a poll? I can't remember.

Anyway, my stance on this issue is less firm than it once was. I was very much anti-abortion and pro-capital punishment. I now find myself leaning toward a totally pro-life stance. It's not because I don't see a difference between killing and murder. There's certainly a part of me that feels like some people deserve it. I just don't trust the government with the lives of fellow citizens, especially when they get it wrong so often. For example, The Innocence Project (http://www.innocenceproject.org/) has now exonerated 210 inmates that were sentenced to death. Statistically, I'm sure there have still been more "just" executions carried out than not. It just doesn't sit well with me. I have a hard time finding favoring death for others in the example of Christ, even when they may deserve it.

That's just where I'm at personally. I'm not arguing that I'm right or wrong, because I know plenty here will say I'm completely wrong. It's just where I personally stand right now. I'm aware that the death penalty is probably an effective crime deterrent and that it's brought closure to many a family. I just don't know if those things are enough to make it right as I think through it.

[SuperJon]

I'm like a lot of you guys in that I'm pretty indifferent on the whole death penalty issue.

[LUconn]

I just don't trust the government with the lives of fellow citizens, especially when they get it wrong so often.

I understand the point you're making but there is a big difference between the government making these decisions and a jury of your peers. That could be better or worse. But your point remains valid. They are wrong sometimes.

[SuperJon]

The problem is, a lot of times the death penalty comes down to "will you rat out somebody or not?" They'll take the death penalty off of the table just to get someone else. It's a completely arbitrary thing at the hands of the government.

[LUconn]

would you rather them take that option off the table? It does seem a little funny to use "what they deserve" as a barganing chip. But I guess it works.

[SuperJon]

I honestly don't know. I think that if their crime was inhumane enough that the death penalty was an option as a punishment, then just telling them dirt on someone shouldn't completely take it off of the table. At the same time, I understand that to get a little you have to give a little. It's just hard to get a definitive stance on it.

[thesportscritic]

I think that if a criminal especially a serial killer is awarded the death penalty for taking the life of another human being, he/she is getting what they deserve. I believe an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.

[LUconn]

literally? Do you think that OJ's punishment should be to be held at gunpoint and robbed of his merchandise? That somehow doesn't seem fitting.

[thesportscritic]

literally? Do you think that OJ's punishment should be to be held at gunpoint and robbed of his merchandise? That somehow doesn't seem fitting.

Yeah Literally (sarcasm). Not what i meant. i mean you do the crime you pay the consequences whether its jail time or if one killed one or more persons they deserve the death penalty.

[LUconn]

So no distinction between premeditated and "in the heat of the moment"?

[thesportscritic]

So no distinction between premeditated and "in the heat of the moment"?

Premeditated most definitely that person or persons who did the crime (murder) definitely deserve the death penalty. In the heat of the moment, life in prison without the possibility of parole or death penalty. i think some people who do that in the heat of the moment show some remorse and there are others that do not show remorse about the crime.

[Ed Dantes]

I can't even list all of the capital punishments situations in the OT. I had to dig around to find a NT situation but here you go

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

Dude went to Clauson's class. I can tell.

[LUconn]

I did. He's a great american.