[ATrain]

The only way to truly know if Winthrop is the best in SC is for the Eagles to play Clemson, South Carolina and College of Charleston. The first two are probably way too scared to play the Eagles (and rightfully so since the upset is highly likely), but b/c both are contenders and not featherweights in the major conferences then you have to assume that they are better than Winthrop.

[LUconn]

Clemson and USC are probably the furthest thing from contenders in their conference.

[Realist]

Don't even mention CofC in the same sentence as Winthrop. That isn't even up for debate unless you are talking 15 years ago.

The NIT is like the 1AA football playoffs, it's nice, but an appearance in the NCAA trumps anything done in the NIT. And how would you know WU wouldn't have won it, especially last year, I would have placed my bets on them.

There really isn't a question on this, WU is easily the best program in the state. I can't even tell you the last time CU and USC made the dance, or anyone else in SC.

[El Scorcho]

I can't even tell you the last time CU and USC made the dance, or anyone else in SC.

1998. Clemson lost in the first round. The year before they went to the Sweet 16.

[LUconn]

well, lets not pretend that every team in the tourney is better than the teams in the NIT. And yes, there is question about who the best program in the state is. It's not even close to being an open and shut case. I swear, no matter how high the WU program goes, you will always give it 10 times more credit than it deserves.

[El Scorcho]

...but an appearance in the NCAA trumps anything done in the NIT.

Maybe in terms of status, but some teams have a much easier path to the tournament than others. So if Clemson won the NIT one year when Winthrop made the big dance...well, I'm not sure that makes Winthrop a better team. It just means they wont the Big South tournament.

The NIT is like the 1AA football playoffs...

As for the I-AA playoffs, I'm not really sure that flies either. The I-AA playoffs are the best a team who plays I-AA football can hope for. It's not like if Appalachian State goes undefeated this year that they'll be invited to a bowl game. The NIT is a consolation tournament. The I-AA playoffs are legitimate.

The NIT is more like all of the non-BCS bowl games. They're consolation prizes that no one really cares about, except for the teams that are playing for them.

[paradox]

...all good points


I might want to throw this one out to our friend realist: Dick Tarrant. Ever heard of him?

Former Richmond coach, Dick Tarrant won a total of five NCAA games and two NIT games--with a sweet sixteen appearance back in '88. I would say that these are huge accomplishments. After Tarrant, Beilein won an NCAA game and later an NIT game. All in all, UR has a 6-7 record in the NCAA's with a sweet sixteen appearance. How many people outside of central Virginia know about these accomplishments?

What is Winthrop's tourney record? Is it 1-8?

Beilein is the head coach at Michigan. Marshall's at Witicha State

[Realist]

Probably not many since it was 1988. At least the other LU folks make sense. That post had no bearing on anything.

[paradox]

Sure it does.

Winthrop and Marshall are only 1-8 in the NCAA's. There are teams with much larger accomplishments that were reduced to just a footnote five years later. One win in the NCAA's is hardly a crowning achievement on the national scene.

The irony here is that Marshall's 1-8 record in the NCAA's stays with him. If Marshall makes the NCAA's over the next two years and they go one-and-done both times, then he'll have a 1-10 postseason record--and they'll be calling for his head in Witicha


That's just life in the big city and nobody cares about all of those "almost wins" and close losses.

[TIMSCAR20]

Marshall is 1 and 7 btw not 1-8 but carry on boys.

[paradox]

As always, I'm being a little hyperbolic with our friend Greg Marshall.

In all seriousness, I do respect him and I think he's a great coach. He should do well at WSU.



In perspective, Marshall with Winthrop is all in the past now.



Right now, it would be hard to argue against LU having a huge coaching edge in the big south

In a way, we now have the Marshall-level guy and Winthrop has the Dunston-level guy --which is not an insult at all coming from me as a former Dutton supporter. So, I think you guys will be decent, just not Marshall-level, if ya know what I mean

[Realist]

As always, I'm being a little hyperbolic with our friend Greg Marshall.

In all seriousness, I do respect him and I think he's a great coach. He should do well at WSU.



In perspective, Marshall with Winthrop is all in the past now.



Right now, it would be hard to argue against LU having a huge coaching edge in the big south

In a way, we now have the Marshall-level guy and Winthrop has the Dunston-level guy --which is not an insult at all coming from me as a former Dutton supporter. So, I think you guys will be decent, just not Marshall-level, if ya know what I mean

I think you're going to be sorely dissappointed as you usually are

How long before Mckay gets fired again?

[paradox]

Wow, the guy hasn't even coached his first game and you're already predicting his termination

May I remind you that he was fired by a UNM program that also passed on Gregg Marshall before they opted for Steve Alford. Sounds to me like McKay and Marshall are pretty close in terms of level---both high mid-major coaches. We can throw Dale Layer in there as well (high mid major level coach). If anything, a pretty persuasive argument can be made that LU posseses the TOP TWO coaches in the Big South.

1. McKay
2. Layer

Care to argue that one

[Realist]

Marshall passed on the NM job, not vice versa.

McKay=fired
Layer=fired.

Failed coaches, who only LU would hire.

Keep in mind, before last season, when you were pumping up dunton, I predicted he would be fired before this season. I think I know just a tad more than you Paradox. (That's sarcasm, since you don't seem to get things sometimes.)

[grm]

Marshall passed on the NM job, not vice versa.

Keep in mind, before last season, when you were pumping up dunton, I predicted he would be fired before this season. I think I know just a tad more than you Paradox. (That's sarcasm, since you don't seem to get things sometimes.)

How do you rate Dunton? Sincerely interested.

[thepostman]

Marshall passed on the NM job, not vice versa.

McKay=fired
Layer=fired.

Failed coaches, who only LU would hire.

Keep in mind, before last season, when you were pumping up dunton, I predicted he would be fired before this season. I think I know just a tad more than you Paradox. (That's sarcasm, since you don't seem to get things sometimes.)

dude don't let dox cloud reality with his crazy talk...McKay, especially on this level, is a very good coach...

to say otherwise wouldn't make you much of a "realist"

[Realist]

How would I rate Dunton? Not very high. I thought he was a pretty good recruiter, Dees, Blair, and Martin were all very good talents. I thought his game coaching was pretty atrocious, and didn't seem to be able to keep control of his team. LU under Dunton always seemed to have enough talent to be competing near the top, but rarely did so.

To post, I don't buy the "good coach for this level" arguement. There are good coaches and bad coaches in every conference. Being a "bad" coach in higher conference doesn't make you a "good" coach in a lower one. Based on what I've read on Mckay, he seems to fit an "average" mold. I don't think he'll be terrible, and he'll be an improvement over Dunton (I would assume). However, I don't think he is anything special, NM has plenty of resources and one of the biggest home court advantages in the country, and he didn't do anything special there, and was let go. I think it's pretty ridiculous to compare him to Marshall, who has been one of the most successful coaches in the country. In the Big South, you get either up and comers who want a shot at a head coaching job (marshall), or guys who can't get hired on for higher paying jobs (Mckay, Buzz). And that's not say that coaches can't get better over time, and learn from others. But Mckay is coming straight from some bad seasons at NM. I still haven't figured out how Ellis fits in to that though.

And SJ, thanks to your tarholes for laying down today. I put money on them. I should have known better.

[grm]

Always appreciate an honest reply. Thank you.

[Realist]

No prob, and I'm not trying to trash Mckay either to everyone else, I just think it's absurd to herald him as some top tier coaching talent when it's pretty obvious it is not the case. I think LU will be better off with him, and that may be good enough to win a title depending on how Peele keeps WU going and whether Lundy ever learns how to win a big game.

[paradox]

Realist:

...touchy-touchy...

Not trying to step on anyone's delicate toes, but Steve Alford was the frontrunner for the UNM job as soon as it opened up, and everyone knew it. Marshall was a fallback guy, but that didn't matter much because Alford took the job. So in reality, Marshall wanted McKay's job. Therefore, they are CLEARLY on a similiar level. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend?

So again, Marshall is Winthrop's past history. Randy Peale is the present. So, I'd say that it's time to move on with a discusion of current top coaches in the Big South.

Here are my picks:

1. McKay
2. Layer
3. The old guy from CCU (that's only if there's still some gas left in the tank)
4. Peale (solid coach)

My.. how the tables have turned





...

[paradox]

Wow, the guy hasn't even coached his first game and you're already predicting his termination

May I remind you that he was fired by a UNM program that also passed on Gregg Marshall before they opted for Steve Alford. Sounds to me like McKay and Marshall are pretty close in terms of level---both high mid-major coaches. We can throw Dale Layer in there as well (high mid major level coach). If anything, a pretty persuasive argument can be made that LU posseses the TOP TWO coaches in the Big South.

1. McKay
2. Layer

Care to argue that one

Oh...eh ..care to argue this one?



....

[Realist]

Wow, the guy hasn't even coached his first game and you're already predicting his termination

May I remind you that he was fired by a UNM program that also passed on Gregg Marshall before they opted for Steve Alford. Sounds to me like McKay and Marshall are pretty close in terms of level---both high mid-major coaches. We can throw Dale Layer in there as well (high mid major level coach). If anything, a pretty persuasive argument can be made that LU posseses the TOP TWO coaches in the Big South.

1. McKay
2. Layer

Care to argue that one

Oh...eh ..care to argue this one?



....

I'm actually done with the thread. Mckay isn't the second best coach in this league currently, much less on the same plane as Marshall. You can make stuff up about Marshall wanting the NM job, but that wasn't the case.

You said Dunton was the best coach in the league last year, so your credibility is sort of shot.

[thepostman]

No prob, and I'm not trying to trash Mckay either to everyone else, I just think it's absurd to herald him as some top tier coaching talent when it's pretty obvious it is not the case. I think LU will be better off with him, and that may be good enough to win a title depending on how Peele keeps WU going and whether Lundy ever learns how to win a big game.

for the record, I don't think he is on the highest level of coaching...I do think he is a big time upgrade from our previous coach, and he, in my opinion, the best coach in the big south....if Marshall hadn't left, then of course he would be the best.

[paradox]

Realist:

I'll leave you to your fantasies!

And for the record, I never said that Dutton was the best coach in the big south--I simply took a higher road than many of the younger more impetuous posters on this board-- and wanted to see how the season played out before talking about firing the guy--big difference from what you fantasized about.

And lastly, if everyone knew that Steve Alford was the frontrunner, then why did Marshall even bother to go? Alford needed to go through the resignation process with Iowa before he could accept the position. Marshall was clearly one of the fallback guys. He was never offered anything there, so there was nothing to decline.

Fact is---Marshall is now coaching among the McKay and Layer level coaches in a high mid major conference---and Mckay and his assiatant Layer seem to have the big south all to themselves

[Killn'emsoftly]

Paradox,
It seems to me that LU has 2 head coaches now with McKay & Layer, like back in the 90's with Meyer & Dunton, come on who is the boss?

Just to chime in on Marshall debate, GM is one of the top 15 coaches in America, he's up there with all the big boys, just ask other D-1 coaches if you don't believe me. When he took the C of C job, So Con coaches were worried even for 48 hours.