[The Judge]

If the goal is to get to the College World Series in Nebraska...I thought it might be a healthy excercise to ask you guys a sincere question ? What do you think in order of importance are the top 10 things a high school baseball recruit should evaluate when considering LU ? I have been very active in this arena and am working hard to deliver some really good talent to LU. For better or worse.....this thread is very opinionated. I have my own list...but I will wait until the end to compare them.

[Fumblerooskies]

Very good question. So, since we are approaching this from a player's perspective...

1. Can I compete at the D-I level?
2. Who is in front on me? Will I be sitting for two years before I even get a sniff?
3. Coaching philosophy--style of play, etc?
4. Success in players being placed in summer leagues.
5. Success of coaches in preparing players for pro-ball (or rather, the success of program in getting pro prospects drafted).
6. Proximity to home (yes, that is a choice for some players).
7. Fit at LU. Trust me on this one, if a player senses "issues" in 2 or 3 of the above, they will not even consider LU, regardless of their religious inclinations.
8. Academics. Many players are going to choose a college b/c of the program, not the academics. Of course, some players WILL, given the choice of several schools, may well pick the better school, all things being equal.

That's my list...from the parent of a player who is at a college. As a parent...the FIT was more important than the prestige of playing D-I. I look forward to seeing some of the other posters' comments...especially HMO and SuperJon, who know more than their fair share about baseball.

[Hold My Own]

As a parent...the FIT was more important than the prestige of playing D-I

Thats the most important thing on my list actually...

1. "The Fit" - My relationship with the team on my visit. My relationship with the coach's. Watching the players interact with the coach's & taking a look at the depth charts.

2. Opinions - The best way I'd be able to judge how much I'm going to get out of a program is simply asking the players what they've gotten out of it. See what they have to say about the program. Coach's will often tell you nobody can recruit better than your own team. Ask about Coaching style...likes/dislikes etc. Also if the coach told the players something on their visit and wither or not he met what he told them (playing time, etc)

3. Atmosphere - (not really talking baseball here) Pretty much how much I like the school and the surrounding area...as well as how good I get along with those I meet on campus (outside of the team)

4. Academics - I'm not going to give the politically correct answer and say I hope it will develop me into something or some stuff like that...but more or less is there a major that will fit what I want to do in life. I remember when I was looking at a CC to go to all they offered was Business, that did not meet what I wanted like SMGT, and sports was not worth sacrificing my future for (even though I'm not using SMGT right now hopefully I will be soon)

5. Progression - I'd like to look at players stats from Fr - Sr to see if I feel like they progressed like I would hope to progress through the program. That also includes progress good enough to be signed to play Pro ball.

Thats really my top 5...I'll try and think of some later...another thing is a coach selling his players...thats really important b/c there will be borderline players every year...and I maybe a borderline player...I want to go somewhere where I know I'll be sold...if I'm not worthy of you selling me then I shouldnt have been worthy of a Scholly

[Fumblerooskies]

OK...I will definitely agree with #1...as far as the total fit. I was referring to the LU lifestyle..but overall fit is most important. I would think that a big part of my original list (1,2,3,7) all would be considered part of the fit.

[prototype]

1) I think you both missed the top reason. The reason every player should consider LU. It's a CHRISTIAN Division 1 Baseball Team. You get to play all the big schools at the highest level, while doing it for the honor and glory of God. How many great athletes come from really good Christian homes and end up playing at a state school because the Christian schools are normally smaller and play against other small schools. What an opportunity to be part of a successful baseball team and shine a light on a University training young men and women for Christ.

2) The other thing I would look at, is the biggest reason I'm glad that I went to Liberty over Full rides to FSU and UCLA, Liberty is like no other school, here you build friendships that will last a lifetime and be part of so much more positive peer pressure than negative. It's a place where there is a concentration put on personal development, not just academic development.

3) Facilities - Does the school have comparable facilities to other schools? LU has its negatives and its positives. I have been to stadiums all over the country and Liberty's really isn't that much different than most. Maryland, Florida's, USF's stadiums are or used to be just as good as ours. We have a nice Fieldhouse, but we need lights. Winthrop has an awesome facility - that will help them in recruiting.

4) Who the team plays and where they play. Believe it or not - Athletes look at this closely. They want to play against the best and they want to travel to cool schools and cities all over the country. It's good to be able to get those random trips to Hawaii and the Caribbean year after year:)

5) I think very little is truly about exposure at this point. Baseball is totally deferent than most sports with the farm systems. If a player has talent, they will already be looked at during high school and the time college comes - Scouts are only attending those high level D1 schools - there to busy attending high schools games and camps, to attend college games all around the country looking for players who slipped through the cracks. If they are good they will get a chance at Liberty or anywhere else.

[SuperJon]

1) How do you feel you fit in with the coaches? If you come from a high school program where the coaches are laid back and there is a "fun" atmosphere at practice, do you really want to play for a coach who is, for lack of a better team, more military in their practices. The same thing goes the other way. If you play for a coach in high school who is very hard-nosed and a huge disciplinarian (sp?), do you want four more years of that or do you want things more laid back?

2) How good is the team? This concerns everything. If it's a great team, you may not play for a few years, and even then you may not be the start. If the team is horrible, you may play everyday but not win. Do you want to win, or do you want to play? I have a friend who could've went to Radford but they're horrible, and now he's at Mt. Olive (D2) and hasn't played much but they're one of the best D2's in the country. Sometimes people don't mind sitting a year or two on a good team.

3) How do you like the school overall? I loved Coastal in terms of academics and location, but I didn't like the people. If the kid likes the coaches and feels comfortable with the team, he may choose another school because he doesn't like the vibe of the school in other areas. A kid may choose LU because he's a Christian and wants to play at a Christian school. At the same time, a kid could be a Christian and choose a state school thinking he could be a better witness in a place where most are not Christians as opposed to a place where everyone is. The kid may like the school, the coaches, the team, etc., but if there is nothing else in the city the school is in that appeals to the kid, he'll choose somewhere else. A lot of your time is spent playing, but a lot of it is out in the town and things like that.

4) Facilities. Are you playing in a dump? Do you have a great stadium but horrible practice facilities? A place like Worthington isn't very attractive because the seating isn't great, there's no back stop, no lights, etc. However, we have a decent indoor practice facility in terms of batting cages, etc. The playing field of Worthington is great, but the atmosphere isn't. Does playing under the lights in front of 2000 people mean a lot to you, or are you ok with playing 3pm games on a Friday in front of 200-300 people?



Overall, it all comes down to how comfortable you are. Nothing is ever perfect, but you have to know what you want, and then you have to know what you're willing to settle for if you don't get everything you want (meaning I may want $175,000 for my house, but I'll settle for $160,000). Every kid is different. Every situation is different.

[Fumblerooskies]

1) I think you both missed the top reason. The reason every player should consider LU. It's a CHRISTIAN Division 1 Baseball Team. You get to play all the big schools at the highest level, while doing it for the honor and glory of God. How many great athletes come from really good Christian homes and end up playing at a state school because the Christian schools are normally smaller and play against other small schools. What an opportunity to be part of a successful baseball team and shine a light on a University training young men and women for Christ.

That is a little too Polyanna like for the real world of college athletics. Yes, LU will attract some very good players BECAUSE of what we are...
...but I am sure there are many strong Christian athletes who are quite comfortable going to a secular school. JD Drew was a legend in college for Florida State...and is a very strong Christian (and that is just one example).

[ATrain]

Well, if any program were recruiting me, these are the type of questions I'd ask:

1. How good is the program and am I good enough to be in it? I'd look at this first because, obviously, I'd want the best shot at getting to Omaha.

2. How much playing time can I expect, and what is expected out of me?

3. How do I fit into the school? This includes things like having my major, respecting beliefs, will I be able to fit in socially or will I have a hard time.

4. What is the school's academic reputation? Am I going to get a quality education that will equip me with what I need to make it in the real world since going pro is a longshot at best, or is it just a party school.

5. How far is it from home/how far do I REALLY TRULY want to be from home?

6. What are the professors like? Will they be helpful or leave me floundering around?

And thats all I could think of if I was being recruited by any institution.

[prototype]

1) I think you both missed the top reason. The reason every player should consider LU. It's a CHRISTIAN Division 1 Baseball Team. You get to play all the big schools at the highest level, while doing it for the honor and glory of God. How many great athletes come from really good Christian homes and end up playing at a state school because the Christian schools are normally smaller and play against other small schools. What an opportunity to be part of a successful baseball team and shine a light on a University training young men and women for Christ.

That is a little too Polyanna like for the real world of college athletics. Yes, LU will attract some very good players BECAUSE of what we are...
...but I am sure there are many strong Christian athletes who are quite comfortable going to a secular school. JD Drew was a legend in college for Florida State...and is a very strong Christian (and that is just one example).

Fumble - You would be surprised how many Athletes come to LU for this reason. I know for a fact that this is used as recruting tool number 1 by most of the coaches - my company designed their recruting packs. There are few things that make us stand out - this is a big one.

[Fumblerooskies]

Proto...
...looking back, perhaps I mis-quoted...and you are right about the fact they SHOULD want to come here...but I think with some, the lure of a "bigger time" program may be too much. One big time talent that is here because of who we are, I think, is Jessica Moore with softball. Certainly this is a great place is to be if one wants to go in their Christian walk and compete with, and against, top talent.

With some sports, however, it is obvious facility upgrades are needed. One thing that has been mentioned is the baseball facility. Great playing surface, great fieldhouse, but lousy spectator area (I actually love watching games there), and no lights. When they are able to get lights, and a stadium-like set-up, that would be a showcase. The terrain certainly would allow a nice place.

[Ed Dantes]

Very good question. So, since we are approaching this from a player's perspective...

1. Can I compete at the D-I level?
2. Who is in front on me? Will I be sitting for two years before I even get a sniff?
3. Coaching philosophy--style of play, etc?
4. Success in players being placed in summer leagues.
5. Success of coaches in preparing players for pro-ball (or rather, the success of program in getting pro prospects drafted).
6. Proximity to home (yes, that is a choice for some players).
7. Fit at LU. Trust me on this one, if a player senses "issues" in 2 or 3 of the above, they will not even consider LU, regardless of their religious inclinations.
8. Academics. Many players are going to choose a college b/c of the program, not the academics. Of course, some players WILL, given the choice of several schools, may well pick the better school, all things being equal.

That's my list...from the parent of a player who is at a college. As a parent...the FIT was more important than the prestige of playing D-I. I look forward to seeing some of the other posters' comments...especially HMO and SuperJon, who know more than their fair share about baseball.

I think you forgot one important detail: how good the school is in their respective sport. If you're one of the best HS players in the country, you need to factor that in... you may be sitting for a year at a better school, such as UNC, but hey -- you'll eventually be playing for one of the best teams in the nation.

[Ed Dantes]

1) I think you both missed the top reason. The reason every player should consider LU. It's a CHRISTIAN Division 1 Baseball Team. You get to play all the big schools at the highest level, while doing it for the honor and glory of God. How many great athletes come from really good Christian homes and end up playing at a state school because the Christian schools are normally smaller and play against other small schools. What an opportunity to be part of a successful baseball team and shine a light on a University training young men and women for Christ.

That is a little too Polyanna like for the real world of college athletics. Yes, LU will attract some very good players BECAUSE of what we are...
...but I am sure there are many strong Christian athletes who are quite comfortable going to a secular school. JD Drew was a legend in college for Florida State...and is a very strong Christian (and that is just one example).

I noticed that despite our religious bent, and that in *theory* we SHOULD be attracting the best Christian athletes across the country... we still just attract those of faith with the playing ability comparable to anyone else in our lowly conference (and that's something that happens throughout all of our sports, save a few exceptions).

[Fumblerooskies]

Ed...
...if you are talking about baseball, then the conference is anything BUT lowly. Usually, the RPI is in the top 10-12.

[sitemdown77]

lowly conference Dantes??? I agree that our conference is weak in many other sports but not in baseball. When you very regularly have a good representation with 2 teams ranked in the top 25 every year on/off, and many others in top 50/75/100. Along with our conference finishing in the top third in baseball america, RPI, and any other rank that is out there...... http://www.warrennolan.com/baseball/2007/conferencerank . Not arguing with you, just got some good facts if anyone on the board didn't know. A little side note....Alex Wilson kid for Winthrop was still sniffing 95 in the 9th against VMI last weekend.

[Stevev]

I really can't say the being in the Big South conference hurts our recruiting for baseball. I know where the conference stands. In all other sports I believe it does hurt us. Especially the 2 "money sports" football and hoops.

[flameshaw]

First thing I would look for if I was being recruited was a "LU" on the mountain that you could see all over town.

[Fumblerooskies]

First thing I would look for if I was being recruited was a "LU" on the mountain that you could see all over town.

All over town...heck, I saw it from BIG ISLAND last week.

[SuperJon]

I think some of the people that went up in the CN Tower could see it.

[ATrain]

I heard it was visible from Sharp Top Mountain...someone hike up there and see if thats true...and take a camera too.

[The Judge]

Answer ?!!! It depends ! For LU....I respectfully submit the following based upon real conversations happening with recruits all over the country. If grades were not important to the student athlete, it tends to be less about " FIT " and more about selfish interest. While these items change...they tend to be in this order:


1. How does the Head Coach handle recruiting Christian vs Non-Christian players ? At LU this is a huge problem for all the sports. The biggest compromise ( in my view ) has been being unequally yoked. I have heard both sides for over 25 years around LU. To this day it is debated and no-one can tell me the school athletic programs are better as a result of the " open borders " so to speak. Christian kids are being recruited by secular schools with no boundaries based upon a standard of Salvation. This puts all Christian schools and their programs at an competitive disadvantage up front. Churches and Christian High schools do have an impact with athletes if they come from solid homes etc. The administration has file drawers filled with kids who attend LU and leave immediatley or shortly thereafter. That gets around to many churches and doesn't sit well with the " Champions For Christ " moniker heard so often on TV. So answer this dilemma and you can tackle the talent pool question more effectively. I think the Christian players who are strong believers who are rooted and grounded in their faith are more attractive to the secular schools more so than the Christian schools....like Michigan etc. The Christian kids I am recruiting are attracted to the spiritual climate of the school and their personal relationship Coach Royer has built with many of them over the past three years he has been tracking them. Three of the five players will come to LU while the other two are not impressed with LU because of facilites and academic reasons. The baseball is not the issue.

2. Can I play at the D-1 level and when will I play ?

3. What kind of scholarship money can I get . If you have great academic prowess coming in and can play...this goes far down the list of importance.

4. Stability of the Head Coach and his staff. Will the head coach have the ability to tell his recruits he is gpoing to be there long term. How long is the average tenure of other coaches at the school ?

5. Can the program provide me the best shot at being drafted after my junior year ? How many players have been drafted and who made to the big leagues ?

6. Does the coaches place players in summer college leagues ? What kind of individual programs do the staff set up for the players to follow ?

7. Facilities ( 2nd biggest issue at LU ( other than # 1 ) although the cosmetic changes helped a little )

8. Does the head coach have a reputation for winning ? Being straight with his current players about their ability, work ethic, and mental approach to their game ? Is he consistent about team rules no matter who the player is ?

9. What is the ratio of junior college players vs. four year players ? Some schools make their reputation by the junior college transfers. Harder to have real team chemistry long term when the team is transient.

10. Strength of schedule as it relates to conference and then RPI etc


But #1 is LU's achilles heel and always has been and will be. BTW...I got saved after I got to LU. So I have truly mixed feeling on the issue. Although I lean toward having the saved kids only. For many reasons to numerous to write in this thread.

[Hold My Own]

Good list

JF was asked by a current coach here at LU about how he should recruit. Strictly Christian, mostly Christian, whoever, etc. JF's answer was he wanted the majority to be Christian and the team be a Christian influence although not all have to be. This takes quit a lot of integrity and can easily be abused, and has been.

[The Judge]

Hold My Own is dead on right with his assessment of abuse.

Havimg attended the American Baseball Coaches Association ( ABCA ) convention for the past 9 years....I have become a regular attender of the FCA meetings held each night for Christian coaches. There are some really fine Christian men who are in head coaches positions at big secular schools. Michigam is one that I know of, staff at Minnesota and everal others who have the unique ability to offer great facilities, program and a coach who loves the Lord. These men see the compromise being made and can only shake their heads at the obvious conflict. But, not one of them is sacrificing their career or salary for having to make a spiritual and moral compass decision for the sake of winning!!

Now flip the coin to LU, Dallas Baptist University, Lipscomb, Baylor, TCU and other " Christian " schools where D-1 players are being asked to behave according to a moral code rather than an athlete who professes a true Holy Spirit death burial and resurrection conversion. While the coaches may all be well intentioned in seeking to find players who are " good moral " kids. They are being asked to compromise the ideal LU was founded upon. So what is the natural end ??? Turnover, rules violations, off campus issues surround each program and forces a certain level of distrust between a coach and his players. While it is said that the " rules " are explained, I think is counterproductive to have a Christian coach look at a kid he knows is not a believer and have to tell him to be what he is not on the inside.

The aforementioned secular school Christian coach sells an athlete who is also a true Christian on his authentic walk with Christ and the knowledge that the new christian student athlete can be a n influence for Christ on his team. That my friends is powerful because it is real and chance to further the Kingdom in a secular setting. So I have really come full circle on this even though I want my son to play at LU which he most certainly will. I have had three conversations with top D-1 coaches who are using their faith as a tool to recruit my son and other Christian kids. In the end...they wouldn't sniff my kid because he is a Christian if he couldn't play. So they get the best of both worlds. The standard should not be the moving target it is. Talent pools would be smaller for sure. But I think Churches and Christian High School coaches in positions of influence would be more loyal and not have a legit reason to say there is very little difference as a result of the " unequally yoked " issue. Not sure I have the perfect answer here....just my view from in close.

[Hold My Own]

Nice post


I've always said I dont think I would be able to coach a men's team at Liberty University. The coach's who coach Women are still able to find in herds good quality Christian athletes....but boy it seems that the men are less and less in quantity....but dont get me wrong...they're out there....but let's not pretend we still live in the 40's and everyone was raised on a farm with good values


I think coaching is the ultimate catch 22 at Liberty University...on one hand you have to understand kids will be kids but on the other you have to know the line in which if crossed action from the school is needed

[MJBNY]

First time post for a LU baseball alum & current MLB scout.

I have sent players on visits to LU for visits & have been able to hear their replies to why they choose or do not choose LU over other schools. Here is my .02.

In order to get past the initial meet & great with the LU coaches there must be an interest in the school & what it stands for. There must be a comfort level with distance from home (west coast kids are much harder to get to Virginia), there must be some optimisim about the program and the players--which includes the history as well as the present, and a resonable expectation of playing a significant amount.

If all of these are present then the recruiting effort will enter a more serious stage. At this point the visit to the school must impress, the facilities must measure up, and the coaching staff must sell the kid on the program, the school, and the opportunity...this is the same for every school. Once a baseball player is on campus, the atmosphere and the coaches must become convincing.

If a player is still undecided then other areas become differnce makers, these difference makers are how good of a schedule is being played, has the head coach been in the home of the player, and as mentioned before placement in summer leagues, drafted players, etc.

This is just my opinion based upon playing at LU and having a good relationship with the staff over the years. Liberty is a very difficult place to recruit for baseball, it can be done but it is not easy. I personally believe Terry Weaver is exhaustive in his efforts and is on the right track.

[Sly Fox]

Welcome to the board. That seems in line with what most of our programs have to pull off at LU.

BTW its great to have another alum from west of the Appalachian chain on the board. If you have time bump around the place. I think you'll be entertained.