[A.G.]

Since we've had talk in a couple of different threads about some oldies but goodies possibly coming back to help with the program, perhaps we should start a separate thread about "All things coaching." Seems like at least a couple of us agree that something may need to be addressed.

[Hold My Own]

There are quite a few former flames that are knocking on LU's door begging for someone to answer

[SuperJon]

Excuse me but aren't we 4-2 with the two losses coming to pretty good teams? Just making sure we're talkin about the same team.

[Hold My Own]

this is the worst non-conference schedule we've ever seen, 4-2 against Auburn, Miami's and others like what our conference opponents are doing and that's a different story

[A.G.]

4-2, and...
...just talk to the players!

[SuperJon]

You guys confuse the tick outta me. You love a 7-20 basketball coach with the worst RPI in the conference but wanna get rid of a baseball coach that is 4-2, coming off his best season, and has a schedule that's below the one last year. Last year's schedule wasn't extremely tough by any means. This year isn't too big of a step down. I'm just trying to follow your logic here.

[SuperJon]

I'm still confused about the double-standard but I understand moreso now when it comes to the reasoning behind getting rid of the coach.

[A.G.]

A big difference is a coach who deserved to get the job the first time compared to a coach who I'm still trying to figure out how he got the job other than being an alum and builds his record playing a cream puff schedule that makes Syracuse's December basketball schedule look tough.

[A.G.]

HMO. Steady goes the course. Stay with it. You have good info on this topic. I will do my best to not turn it into a blood-letting like the basketball one turned in to.

[SuperJon]

See, you hafta remember not all of us here know the background as to why everyone was hired. By the beginning of the thread, I was under the impression that you guys wanted his head because of the cream puff schedule and that's it. After talking to "people in the know" and learning the back story with how he was hired, I can understand why (to an extent). Not everyone on the board has been here forever or kept up with LU sports forever, just remember that for the future. Some are still new.

[Sly Fox]

Some may be new, but they sure come strong. Keep the fire alive, SJ.

[A.G.]

SJ, yes. It goes deeper than the schedule--much deeper.

[SuperJon]

Go big or go home.

[A.G.]

It's the new blood that keeps the old guys that become jaded by some of the screwy stuff that goes on a dose of reality. Definitely keep it up, SJ, and other young 'uns.

[Hold My Own]

HMO. Steady goes the course. Stay with it. You have good info on this topic. I will do my best to not turn it into a blood-letting like the basketball one turned in to.

good! hey the man in charge is the man in charge, so we still should support the team this year and offer opinions on how to make it better but NO BLOOD!

SJ the names shall remain anonymous to protect the innocent (sgt Friday reference)

[Hold My Own]

HELP the program OR TAKE OVER the program. There is a difference. I'm a big Tomlin fan and personally feel the wrong alum got the job the last time.

hmmm, thats a very interesting question- I had the same thought and figured I'd hang it out there for you guys to see if you picked up on the idea too!

I must agree with you that i was also impressed with Tomlin when i had the opportunity to speak with him following games on the radio. I don't know if the wrong person got the job, but we do need some intervention to spark the program i think and i am interested to see what will happen.

I agree that a spark would be great. It is ironic, though- cause we're talking about a team that's 4-2 right now! (I know, Strength of Schedule: but there's bound to be some that complain about us on here screaming b/c of losing teams, yet unhappy with those that ARE actually winning!)

I brought this over here b/c I felt like it applied


When people say they dont think Tomlin could handle the job b/c of his soft spoken demeanor...I question it b/c I think with a real firey assistant coach (like edwards in the past) would help get a little bit of both....kinda like the good cop bad cop deal

PA I think this is a good example of you cant just go off wins and losses....yeh, it's easy to fire a coach after a bad year, but if he's the right man for the job then why fire him just because of a down year? The same goes with a winning coach, there can be a lot that goes on that can lead to a lot of outcomes for the future of a coach...like the Coach D thread, it's to easy and simple minded to say, "hey we got a bad record this year, I guess we better make a change!" and the same goes for the opposite of that

I'm not saying anything one way or the other but I think a good lesson can be learned here with how to handle all coach's and records in both aspects

[PAmedic]

I don't know where he ended up after the Phillies cut him loose but if you want fired up Larry Bowa is your man!

[Hold My Own]

I don't know where he ended up after the Phillies cut him loose but if you want fired up Larry Bowa is your man!

That's funny you said that, I actually ran into him a while back and we talked a little bit, and needless to say he was still a little bitter with the Phils

[PAmedic]

that's Philly sports for ya- ask SCAR- it always ends up that way.

Dick Vermiel, Dallas Green, Buddy Ryan, Rich Kotite (ugh), Larry Brown

[A.G.]

There IS a precedent for LU getting rid of a successful coach due to player dissatisfaction issues. I believe this was one of the reasons behind the volleyball change a couple years ago.

[Hold My Own]

i see you know your stuff too, that is correct

and not only that but I believe she won coach of the year 1 or 2 years before she was let go

one thing I know for certain, JF does not like it when he hears a student athlete say that he would not recommend LU to anyone and he would not send his children here, but when that student athlete says that he is not alone and the majority feel that way, now he'll step into action...I'm not saying this is the case for baseball just something that has happened in the past

[PAmedic]

I recently got some info that- before he left (obviously) Dr Park surveyed ALL the student athletes, asking about pro's/con's of their individual teams. Word is the Baseball team sent back some pretty pointed comments- though I have NO idea what the issues were.

My guess is the program will be reevaluated after the season, regardless of the Wins/Losses. And that aint such a bad thing anyway- we are a D1 program- onward and upward.

[flameshaw]

I am glad all these unsubstantiated rumors and comments aren't being made against Randy Dunton, the regulars on here would be having a stroke. Please tell me there is not a double standard here.

I am very close to the baseball situation and for the record don't think we made a great hire. However this guy did win a D2 national championship which is not bad. But, lets bash him even though he had a winning record last year (school record for wins)and has a good start this year. Yes it was against weak competition, but do you think MBB is playing any better schedule?

I have heard a lot worse things about RD from very credible sources, but was written off here as someone who doesn't know what they are talking about because RD invited me to lunch to hear his side of the story and the coach actually took time to write a blog on a message board and that proves he is right. I have had several lunches with RD, played golf with him, etc and all I know is there are two sides to every story and I believe I have heard them both.

By the way, if RD ever sets a record for wins for the school, you won't find me being negative about his coaching job. I will be calling for a contract extension. Based on the record against weak competition, RPI rating and attendace figures, I again say we are no better off than we were with MH here.

[TallyW]

Wonder how many more times you'll play golf with RD now?

I don't know the Baseball coach and haven't followed him at all so what I'm about to say is more theory than personal. Meaning it's not directed at anyone in particular.

I would say that from my understanding baseball is a sport in which we should be competing against higher competition. This was the first sport to give us an NCAA D-1 tournament victory (of any sport on campus) in 2000. I think what some are complaining about is that the goal of a program is not to compare themselves to the other programs on campus. The goal is to compare themselves against their competition across the country. Some alumni are wondering why it is that we seem to be playing a lightweight schedule just a few years after getting a tourny win. That's a fair question. As are many of the questions raised with coach D on the basketball thread. I don't know that much has been made in the way of personal attacks against the baseball team/coach. If so, I'd hope we wouldn't allow them as well. For the moment however I do feel that a discussion about the overall direction of ANY program on campus can only be healthy as it engages dialogue among alumni and allows for others to fill in the blanks for those of us who may be ignorant of developments from time to time.

As always, we all want the same thing... the board is just a way to discuss the various means to get there.

[A.G.]

Nice points, all around, TallyW.

The best is the competition angle. We have discussed one of the potential benefits of moving to I-A in football was recruiting the Christian athlete that wants to compete at the BEST level. We have that chance in baseball, and did so when Pastors was here. Sure, his top win year was also 36 wins, but playing against a legit schedule. I fault the current coach for the schedule change; I fault him for failing to get out in the community to market and talk up Flames baseball; I fault him for bringing in players under less than full disclosure; I fault him for the apparent current player level of dissatisfaction; and I fault him for failing to recruit area talent. I certainly CAN'T fault his record, in spite of the competition.

Pastors took care of business and still won--and the school failed MISERABLY to take care of it's business in keeping him around. Let's see if the "powers that be" have the stones to make a change when it is needed, as opposed to AFTER it is needed and becomes a huge problem. I just hope those surveys make it to Barber's desk.