This forum is pure hardball. Bring the heat in this discussion of Flames baseball.

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By huntandfish
Registration Days Posts
#511015
Well it has happened a BSC team to the CWS. LU has all the "stuff" that CCU has. Great stadium, fully funded and the difference maker. The difference maker at CCU is the beach and believe me Gary uses that to his advantage. LU has the faith based education that could be a huge , but not sure we sell how we are very well. So why not LU? I think I know one of the biggest reasons. Love to hear some feed back.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#511017
Coach Gilmore has the beach as a recruiting tool, but he's also an incredible manager. They develop talent better than most schools and then put that talent in the best possible situation to win. We are a very talented program but we aren't a winning program. Coach Gilmore has created a winning program and has had over a decade of sustained success.

We have the resources to make a run. We lack the coaching and talent development.
By ballcoach15
Registration Days Posts
#511020
Two or three years ago, we were knocking on the door, in the Regional in South Carolina. Since that season, instead of going forward, we went in reverse. Also I believe a couple years ago, we swept CCU,

The college world series is a 3 step process:

Make NCAA Tourney
Win Regional
Win Super Regional
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By LUGrad2000
Registration Days Posts
#511022
They have been taking steps toward this for years. They have been to several Super Regionals. We have not. We will be in this position sometime in the future.
By Chippy
Registration Days Posts
#511032
Gilmore has been able to recruit talent at CCU. They have a great campus, good facilities and for baseball great reputation abased on years of success. They've been to NCAAs at least 9 times and supers 3 times and now CWS one time. They have 4-5 players currently on Major League rosters - I believe the last player(s) we had in the bigs was Randy Tomlin (Pirates) and Sid Bream (Pirates, et al.). The best player we have had in Toman's tenure was Ryan Seiz who was a transfer from Louisville. Unfortunately, it seems all the high profile recruits go pro before ever stepping foot on the mountain.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#511034
Many of those current Major Leaguers and high profile guys for Coastal weren't that when they were coming out of high school. They were coached and developed into those players while in college. It's not like Coastal was beating out SEC teams for talent. They got talented kids with great work ethics and then taught them the game and helped them reach their potential.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#511036
Tommy La Stella (Cubs) and Taylor Motter (Rays) currently. Rico Noel was up last year with the Yankees in September. They've had three others (Dave Sappelt, Mike Constanzo, Keith Hessler) in the past few years.
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By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#511044
Thanks. When Chippy said they had 4-5 guys currently on MLB rosters I figured I'd be aware of a couple.
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By WinthropEagleFan
Registration Days Posts
#511087
At least you all have been to a couple of Regionals the last few years...This run by Coastal got me looking back at what has gone at Winthrop the last decade and has depressed me.

10 years ago, WU and Coastal pretty much were at a level playing field when it came to baseball. WU had come off two straight years (2005 & 2006) of being at-large NCAA quality (#2 seeds in NCAA Regionals) and had played decently well in those regionals, though did not advance. Coastal had been on a pretty good run of making Regionals and got a #1 seed (though didn't host) in 2005, but they hadn't yet advanced past that point either. Both teams had guys picked in the 2nd round of the MLB draft in 2005 and both seemed to be bringing in talent. And at that point, Winthrop had a newly upgraded stadium that was about to get its 2nd round of upgrades...If you asked me 10 years ago, I would have been pretty convinced that hosting a regional, advancing to a Super Regional, and the outside shot of getting to Omaha were realistic goals for the Winthrop program. Then, the next four years, WU was decent, but not getting to NCAA Regionals, and lost the momentum that seemed to be there in the 2005-06 time frame. That also coincided with a great run by Coastal, where they hosted three regionals, made it to two super regionals, and ran the table in the league in 2010 (which is impossible to believe in baseball). So while WU had taken a slight step back, it looked even worse when looking at the huge step up Coastal made. WU then fires long-time coach Joe Hudak...I don't know all the reasons that may have caused that to happen, but I think Coastal jumping up that high (while WU took a slight step back) was the catalyst for the WU AD/President to do something...I think they panicked. And unfortunately, if you are going to fire someone that had built a program to where WU baseball was, you better make sure the next hire is the right one, and I think it is obvious after 6 years of Tom Riginos that it wasn't the right hire. WU hasn't come close to being a legit NCAA regional team since (one run to the Big South championship game a couple of years ago not withstanding). I never had any doubt that a Big South team could make it to Omaha, but I had realistic hope at one time that Winthrop could be that team...that feels like a long time ago now though. Stings to see Coastal being that team, even though I have a ton of respect for Gary Gilmore as a coach...
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By jinxy
Registration Days Posts
#511104
The conference needs Winthrop to step back up with coastal leaving. Hpu and gwebb have made strides the last few years and Radford is jekyll and Hyde.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#511107
Yeah, Radford should probably fire their coach. They had a very good year last year and this year they were not nearly as good. Obviously doesn't know how to develop talent. Same with UNC and several other schools. UCLA won it all a year or so ago, now they can't even get to the Super Regionals, Stony Brook, was in the World Series a couple of years ago, now they are way down. These baseball coaches go from great to horrible in just a couple of years or less. Sheeesh.
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By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#511112
flameshaw wrote:Yeah, Radford should probably fire their coach. They had a very good year last year and this year they were not nearly as good. Obviously doesn't know how to develop talent. Same with UNC and several other schools. UCLA won it all a year or so ago, now they can't even get to the Super Regionals, Stony Brook, was in the World Series a couple of years ago, now they are way down. These baseball coaches go from great to horrible in just a couple of years or less. Sheeesh.
Why do you love Toman so much? I don't understand.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#511116
Difficulty developing talent seems to be a theme in LU Athletics
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#511117
jinxy wrote:The conference needs Winthrop to step back up with coastal leaving. Hpu and gwebb have made strides the last few years and Radford is jekyll and Hyde.
Radford recruited a few kids who killed their team culture. I think they'll get that figured out and turn it around if their coach stays. He's really good.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#511151
Jonathan Carone wrote:
jinxy wrote:The conference needs Winthrop to step back up with coastal leaving. Hpu and gwebb have made strides the last few years and Radford is jekyll and Hyde.
Radford recruited a few kids who killed their team culture. I think they'll get that figured out and turn it around if their coach stays. He's really good.
Joe Raccuia right? He is really good
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By jinxy
Registration Days Posts
#511153
He's not very well liked by his players either. Atleast from what I hear, which is from high school coaches in the valley that have had guys play for him. Doesn't mean he isn't a good coach. I must have missed when we made a super regional or cws??? Most of flameshaws teams have made it there.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#511156
jinxy wrote:He's not very well liked by his players either. Atleast from what I hear, which is from high school coaches in the valley that have had guys play for him.
Toman or Raccuia?
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#511158
If I understand the context of his comments correctly, I believe jinxy is referring to Coach Raccuia
By huntandfish
Registration Days Posts
#511166
Has nothing to do with W and L everything to do with culture and mission fit. Great book called mission drift talks about how we drift from our mission and wonder why we cant get over the hump.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#511180
adam42381 wrote:
flameshaw wrote:Yeah, Radford should probably fire their coach. They had a very good year last year and this year they were not nearly as good. Obviously doesn't know how to develop talent. Same with UNC and several other schools. UCLA won it all a year or so ago, now they can't even get to the Super Regionals, Stony Brook, was in the World Series a couple of years ago, now they are way down. These baseball coaches go from great to horrible in just a couple of years or less. Sheeesh.
Why do you love Toman so much? I don't understand.
I don't love Toman. There are some here, who can confirm I have had problems with him. However, that was a few years ago and wasn't directly related to W and L's. I have personally talked to those who can actually do something about it though.
There is so much misinformation spread on this board, especially in the baseball/football sections. I see it mostly as entertainment and refuse to let it consume me.
Unlike most here, I have actually played sports at a pretty high level. I was offered a contract out of high school with the California Angels. Because of personal/private reason, I chose to come to LU instead. I do not regret my decision. My humble opinion, is that there are just some things you can't understand unless you have played the game, felt the pressure, etc. It doesn't mean that you can't be intellectually informed, regarding the sport.
I get a fair amount of information about my opinions from major league scouts and administrative staff. There are some things I can say, but choose not to, because I am not willing to name my source(s), because I am told in confidence. ie. I knew exactly what Alex K was going to do, because I talked to one of the scouts who had personally talked to him. I wasn't going to say anything definitive about him though, because I would have felt obligated to disclose my source. I am not going to say that high school coaches don't like so and so and not be willing to back it, with names. if asked. I am not going to say that LU pitcher(s) are seeking coaching outside of the team, unless I am willing to name the player(s) and the people who are supposed to be helping him. It is just all hearsay to me, unless you are willing to back it up.
Long rant, sorry. Getting back to Toman. I believe that he has corrected some of the things that plagued his personal and professional life. I don't really disagree with many of his tactical decisions, he recruits well, etc. I am not totally happy with the W&L's recently, but to think about firing the guy, who has taken us to the playoffs, has the most wins in school history, I am just not there yet. This might change in time to come, but some of the accusations against the guy are ludicrous and border on childish.
I sure hope that the haters here, never have a boss that would review their work as critically and harshly without provable backup. I suspect there would be a lot of people without jobs. :). Fight On.
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