This forum is pure hardball. Bring the heat in this discussion of Flames baseball.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#493762
flameshaw wrote:I don't believe he is as interested in leaving as he once was. He has made some positive life changes in the last couple of years. We all know of some personal challenges he has gone through. There are some other things that not many people are aware of, that have been positive as well. I wish him well, if he stays or leaves at a future date.
Happy to hear this. I think even in the middle of some of the more heated discussions about him most didn't wish the man ill.
By LUDad
Posts
#493801
This conversation reminds me of UNC boards back when Mack Brown was coach. Got them to consistent 10 win seasons & good bowl games. Then a few fans got spoiled and decided they wanted a coach that could them to the "next level" Well, the coaches since have certainly done their job...except the next level was a deep spiral down hill.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#493809
LUDad wrote:This conversation reminds me of UNC boards back when Mack Brown was coach. Got them to consistent 10 win seasons & good bowl games. Then a few fans got spoiled and decided they wanted a coach that could them to the "next level" Well, the coaches since have certainly done their job...except the next level was a deep spiral down hill.
My opinion has nothing to do with next level at all. Toman is Toman. He's going to get us to two regionals every four years and we might make a super every decade. That's a pretty good result for a school at our level.

My dislike has always been based on coaching style and that's completely subjective.

The "fit" at Liberty is also questionable but again, it's subjective. In my opinion it's not a great fit.
By huntandfish
Registration Days Posts
#493811
Wow it's all about winning I guess. If Toman stays I sure hope he will reach out to the old crew and stop the ," we have better players than in the past", BS. They might be true but he might need some of the old dudes one day. I do think if he stays and wants to make LU home he would benefit from a LU guy on his staff. Problem is not sure how is out there that would come back. That would make a huge difference with the old crew.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#493830
huntandfish wrote:Wow it's all about winning I guess. If Toman stays I sure hope he will reach out to the old crew and stop the ," we have better players than in the past", BS. They might be true but he might need some of the old dudes one day. I do think if he stays and wants to make LU home he would benefit from a LU guy on his staff. Problem is not sure how is out there that would come back. That would make a huge difference with the old crew.
I played on the first football and baseball teams, so I am about as old crew as it gets. Toman has reached out to the baseball alumni more than any other baseball coach we have had......... by far. He has reached out to Coach Worthington and has given him the immense respect that he deserves. Has been a gracious host for alumni games and recognized former players, etc . Don't know of any other major sport on the mountain that comes close to staying up with former players and coaches. Football does a few things, but not near enough in my opinion. Basketball does almost nothing.
I also know for a fact that he talks to several of the old guys on a regular basis and recruits players through them. (guys that were here before he got here too).
I agree a LU alum would be great to have on the staff. I know of 3-4 that would come back in a minute, but either the pay is not enough or there are geographical and/or family complications.
Finally, I have followed LU baseball since 73 very closely. The "we have better players than in the past" is absolutely 100% correct. Worthington had some very good players for sure. Then we suffered through the Hutton era for many years (waaaaaaaaay too long in my opinion). Wasn't just a few years ago we had 6-7 players drafted?
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#493840
Coach Worthington was bringing terrific talent even before we became Division I. I agree that todays talent may be a bit better but it is tough to argue with the number of players we sent to the majors back in the '80s.
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By jinxy
Registration Days Posts
#493847
The depth is better. We had some better high end players back then (basing it off guys that reached big leagues) but even since I followed (02) the roster is deep3r now than ever. I think flame shaw was spot on. I get frustrated too but I think it's tough to bang on toman compared to several other sports. Now that layer is gone it changes that argument a bit
By huntandfish
Registration Days Posts
#493893
We will just have to agree to disagree on the alum stuff. The guys I played with have zero contact and when I ask why,it's the same story. And the guys that have tried to call re players have been blown off. There are a bunch of guys coaching in HS that are Liberty folks that are sending guys other places and when I ask why it's the same story, " Well I tried but never again". The good thing is they have started to sign LCA guys and I think Randy Tomlin was/is coaching so at least that is something.

By the way what a one on one with the BB coach. That guy has a great vision of the mission of LU. Would love to see us have a baseball guy that could do that. I guess I'm getting old where I believe the mission of the school is WAY more important than winning.
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By alabama24
Registration Days Posts
#493911
huntandfish wrote:I guess I'm getting old where I believe the mission of the school is WAY more important than winning.
Nope. Although I am getting old, so maybe that puts things in perspective. lol
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#493929
Personally I think that the two don't have to necessarily be mutually exclusive. Its very possible to put an emphasis on winning, but do it in a way that glorifies God (which I believe is the chief end of man, but this isn't a theological discussion) AND represents the university and its mission in a positive way. Now, Toman has made his share of mistakes and bad decisions and Im sure upset a lot of former players along the way, but as another poster said, he has made more than a few positive changes in his life and that is to be lauded. Now he can't reach out to ALL the former players, but the fact that he is reaching out to some is an improvement. Im sorry if he isn't reaching out to your former teammates and friends HaF, but the man is trying to make an effort now that we are starting to see more success on the field.
By huntandfish
Registration Days Posts
#494372
Well said can't agree more with the winning without selling out part. And I too am glad Coach made some good life changes. I just wish I saw my teammates sending their guys to LU and not ACC and SEC schools. Oh well, if Coach Toman does not leave he should bring in an alum to help bridge the gap between the alum and his image. I'm sure there are guys out there that could help and want to be back on Liberty Mtn. ( Just had pic of Robbie Hinner (not sure that's spelled correct) run though my mind singing I want that mountain.

Well that all for now. Too wet to hunt and all the fish have been washed out hear in the Carolina's. So I'm bored out of my mind. So you guys get to hear me rant. We need to have a Flames Fan party and I'm buying.
By LUDad
Posts
#494402
huntandfish wrote: I just wish I saw my teammates sending their guys to LU and not ACC and SEC schools.
Is it really realistic to think that we would even be in contention for any of these guys being recruited by ACC & SEC schools?
By huntandfish
Registration Days Posts
#494426
Yes and I know this for a fact. If the ACC and SEC guys are getting the kids that are believers think about what it would be like to sell the fact that they can go to a Christian college with all the "stuff" LU has. I just think we are missing on some good players that would love to be at LU. That's not even hitting the Christian school kids that are going to ACC and SEC schools. LU should be able to get every big time Christian school kid. Easy sell to the parents and the parents have more to do with it than you think.
By LUDad
Posts
#494470
huntandfish wrote:Yes and I know this for a fact. If the ACC and SEC guys are getting the kids that are believers think about what it would be like to sell the fact that they can go to a Christian college with all the "stuff" LU has. I just think we are missing on some good players that would love to be at LU. That's not even hitting the Christian school kids that are going to ACC and SEC schools. LU should be able to get every big time Christian school kid. Easy sell to the parents and the parents have more to do with it than you think.
Ok, I'll bite. Name the Christian baseball players that wanted to go to Liberty but went to an ACC or SEC school instead because Liberty wouldn't recruit them.
By huntandfish
Registration Days Posts
#494499
You know I can't name names on this board. But I would think that getting the kids that buy in to the mission of the school would be much easier that getting them off campus and trying to manage the "church stuff". So with that being said why not go after the top kids in Christian Schools. Heck start in FL. I know there are some Christian school kids that are not good cause they are just not good. However I see a number of kids on rosters that are Christian school kids. I should have started the tread with the fact that our baseball stuff is second to non and that was the big push to the ACC and SEC schools. With that off the table getting Christian kids should be easy. I could be wrong . But it makes for a good talk.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#494509
Are you an ncaa coach? If you look at other sections, and even some threads in this one, you see names out the wazoo. I know only one person here for sure who cannot actually name recruits specifically.
By Chippy
Registration Days Posts
#494514
I just think if a Christian kid had a chance to go to UVA or Vanderbilt to play baseball they're going to take that choice over Liberty any day. We haven't shown we can get beyond the first round, if we make it at all. I certainly would like to get a kid or two that chose us over them and build on that but . . . Didn't Henderson choose us over UNC and . . .
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#494519
I don't disagree with that. Just with the idea that haf would just throw out the statement and when asked for specific examples he backtracks to the idea he can't name names. When it comes to recruits, and somebody in the know can go into more detail, can't we discuss them by name as long as we are not someone directly involved in their recruiting process?
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By SumItUp
Registration Days Posts
#494523
BJWilliams wrote:I don't disagree with that. Just with the idea that haf would just throw out the statement and when asked for specific examples he backtracks to the idea he can't name names. When it comes to recruits, and somebody in the know can go into more detail, can't we discuss them by name as long as we are not someone directly involved in their recruiting process?
Keyboard warrior

SMH
By huntandfish
Registration Days Posts
#494525
OK here is a question, why would a Christian kid not pick LU over the SEC or ACC ? If you say the degree I good with that but that only a few of the schools in each conference. The "stuff" is not on the table anymore. Stadium, Nike deal, add cost etc... LU does it all and the rules are not even the same anymore. Plus a chance to go to a regional every year and the draft is an oversight either. Just asking questions. And BJ be nice I would name names but can't, sorry.
By LUDad
Posts
#494550
huntandfish wrote:But it makes for a good talk.
No, it does not make for a good talk. This is not tipical sports board banner. You made specific supposedly first hand "factual" allegations, that, if true, should result in Toman's immediate firing. I prefer at this time to assume that you simply got carried away in the heat of the moment and made some irrational comments that you wish you could recall. I know that with my big mouth, I can't cast that first stone.
By huntandfish
Registration Days Posts
#494554
Wow. Not sure how the firing of Toman got into my tread. He can sign whomever he want's. I'm just saying he needs to connect with some of the top Christian schools esp in the south. I think there might be an alum or two with some talent that could help. I will have to check my intel first but I think there are some alums coaching at good christian schools. Maybe someone knows and can help.
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