A Sea Of Red

The guys had a good season overall though we could not get a regional spot. We set a record for Division I wins in a season with 42, and we had the most Big South wins in school history with 19. We finished 2nd behind probably the best Coastal team they have had in their history. Until LU, or anyone else in the league can step up and recruit better, the best that can happen is a second place finish and a regional spot. We will need to schedule better next year, and win more mid-week games, and quit losing big south games against teams we should not be losing to. We also need to improve our facilities, but that does not appear that will happen any time soon since football is first priority.

Their has been a debate over Toman v. Royer, and after three seasons Toman is 110-66-1 and 50-24 in the big south. he has two finals appearances. Royer in contrast, was 78-86 overall and 30-37 in the big south with one finals apperance in his first three seasons. I cannot speak to strength of recruiting classes, so hopefully someone else can address that. Toman is our guy, and it appears he likes it here, and im sure he and his staff are working hard to bring in the right players. I still question the handling of the pitching staff, but im no baseball expert either.

We lose four starting position players in P.J.Jimenez, Kenny Negron, Curran Redal, and Nathan Thompson, and starting pitcher Shawn Teufel. We have a great nucleus returning and im gonna make a stab at our lineup for next year:

LF- Doug Bream
CF- Justin Richardson
RF- Michael Robertson
3B- Tyler Bream
SS- Matt Williams
2B- Austin Taylor
1B- Justin Sizemore
C- Trey Wimmer
DH- Jeff Jefferson

weekend pitchers
1.Steven Evans
2.Keegan Linza
3.Tim Dudley

mid week pitchers
1. Cam Giannini
2. Blake Forslund (UVA transfer), Josh Richardson

closer
J.J. Mc leod or Josh Richardson

Im sure Jon will chime in because he has been around the team a lot. this year is the most LU baseball i have watched since my days at LU as a student so its good to be in town for that. I am excited for the future for LU baseball and hopefully he can get our facilities upgraded sooner than later.

Good post, smooth. Toman said at the beginning of the year that Forslund would be a weekend starter had he been eligible this season. I assume nothing has changed in that regard.

LF - Jeff Jefferson
CF - Michael Robertson
RF - Not sure
3B - Tyler Bream
SS - Matt Williams
2B - Austin Taylor
1B - Doug Bream
C - Trey Wimmer
DH - Whoever they like that day

Weekend Starters (in no order)
1) Steven Evans (assuming he doesn't leave in the draft)
2) Keegan Linza (assuming he gets things worked out)
* I think Forslund and Swanson will develop into possible weekend guys. Just don't know if they'll be there in February.

Midweek Starters (in no order)
1) Blake Forslund
2) Mark Swanson
3) Tim Dudley
4) Josh Richardson (maybe?)
This is a complete crapshoot. We've got so many guys coming off of surgery or being redshirted that it could be a number of guys. You've got Daniel Brown, Forslund, and Swanson all in that category.

Main Bullpen Guys
1) Forslund (early on the weekend, hopefully he develops into a weekend starter)
2) Richardson
3) McLeod

Evans is really the only junior we have to worry about getting drafted. If he gets drafted and it isn't in one of the last rounds I think he's gone and I don't blame him.

Also, we're bringing in so many players that I know nothing about and we'll likely have the normal roster turnover of transfers, Tommy John, etc so all of this could go to crap by the fall.

If Neufang hangs around I think he plays a role at catcher and DH. You dont put up the numbers in juco that he did if you can't swing the bat. Also, in his limited work i saw this year, he is a much better receiver and thrower than nate or trey. I gotta think he's one of those guy's that needs his AB's to hit well rather than inconsistent playing time.

Wiht us you never know when we have a JUCO guy coming in that is gonna take a spot.

Neufang is a catcher that doesn't catch the ball half the time. You're honestly the first person I've ever seen defend him. I know he had great Juco numbers, but the guy struck out 19 times in 48 at bats. He struck out more than two times for every hit he had. I can understand having a lower average if you're hitting the ball hard but right at guys. He just couldn't hit the ball. I'm not trying to pile on the guy but from what I saw of him this year, I wasn't impressed at all.

I have heard we're bringing in a really, really good catcher next year. If that's the case, I put Trey back at first and then throw Doug out in left field.

2011 Weekend Starters -Pitchers who don't need Tommy John surgery

2011 Weekday Starters - Pitchers coming back from Tommy John surgery

I followed the Baseball Flames a good bit this season, and it was quite a season. A school record for wins, no less!
I thought I'd chip in my 2 cents worth for the projected team next year.

LF: Jefferson
CF: new face
RF: Robertson
3B: Bream, T.
SS: Williams
2B: Taylor
1B: Wimmer
C: Neufang
DH: Bream, D.

Weekend Guys: Forslund, Swanson, Giannini (assuming Evans leaves via draft)
Midweek: Dudley, Linza
Go-to Relievers: Richardson, McLeod, Roach

SuperJon, I was wondering why you would see Trey back behind the plate after a 2 year layoff? And I noticed Giannini was nowhere on your pitching projection after seeing a lot of big innings this year?

i agree with jon about neufang....not impressed at all, but wondering why who do not have cam on your pitching list?

Did swanson have tommy john surgery?

I just think Trey's our best current option behind the plate, better than Neufang (assuming he comes back). We're apparently bringing in a really good guy there so that is possibly out the window. For some reason our coaches aren't big on Trey.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I think they'll just keep MikeRob in right and put someone new in center. For whatever reason they haven't been very high on him towards the end of the season.

There's also talk of a new guy coming in and possibly playing third and moving Tyler to first. Like I said earlier, it's a new guy so I have no clue if it'll pan out or if it's just talk.

As for Cam, I love him but the coaches don't seem to be high on him. They went to Dudley in the conference tournament when he hadn't pitched in over a month over Cam. They started Chach after saying they wouldn't start Chach and then when they put Cam in, they only left him there for three batters. I'd love to see him being a big time guy next year but I don't see our coaches doing that.

This is going to be bumpy. Sly Fox,Hold My Own I apologize for the heat that this post may cause...but my family and I have given a significant portion of our lives, money and time to loving Liberty, Dr Falwell, Coach Worthington, Matt Royer, and the baseball program.

Not sure if (ok I am sure) the debate should be about wins and losses only. But if it is results you are judging...then feast on the reality that the schedule Toman put together this year was weak. 39 regular season wins is very good. But against what caliber of competition? Coastal is a national power house every year last time I looked. Bigsmooth putting up Royer's numbers years one through three is not the best way to see clearly the difference between the two coaches. Reason I say this is because MR took his teams to the Big South championship games three times in five years and actually beat Coastal at different times in those playoffs while never winning the title. Toman never has come close to beating Coastal in the regular season or playoffs. Look what Royer had his first year(playerwise) vs what Toman inherited his first year.

1. The coaches salaries, facilities and budgets are NOW far and away superior to when Royer and even Pators was the coach. Barber gave Toman the keys to the vault and at the end of the day...the program is not any better on the field results wise...and by any spiritual measure...the conduct of Toman on the field and the stuff off the field with the team is far worse. Why ? Because he recruits good baseball players not christians who also happen to be good baseball players. No real discernment. So you get guys who are good baseball players attending a christian school who are not christians...so they act and live like non-christians. Is anyone really surprised ??? Toman seems shocked by this reality. Which begs further questions.

2. Toman is looking to get out of Lynchburg because he more than anyone realizes he doesn't fit at Liberty. Or maybe he does. Scary thought ! Clearly, Barber hired the wrong guy ! No-one is willing to talk about how it got so far off track. The team has a winning record...AND the reputation, mission of the school and Jesus Christ is dragged through the mud for a BIG SOUTH Championship ??? An at large berth ? A trip to Omaha ???

Think about it this way...lets say the team were to win the conference, win the regional, go to Omaha and win it all...they will do it with a team make up like every other secular university. A small percentage of true believers, the head coach and many players that can curse like the best of em, but they get on their knees and pray after each game giving a blurry message in a world that needs to have a true witness. What exactly would we have won ??? Dr Falwell always said " if it is Christian it ought to be better".

Coach Worthington got black balled in the big leagues for calling out his teams owners for cheating. He has also not been silent about what has happenned to the program that has his name attached to the field. He lived and coached and WON walking the narrow road. I say Jerry Jr and Barber need to get off the expressway and find their spiritual GPS.

No Bigsmooth it is not a comparrison of Royer and Toman that needs to be examined. It is the leaderships decision to put winning above hiring a Godly man to run the program. They had one in Royer and didn't support him.

There I stand !

one thing right off the bat wrong with that post is that Coastal was never as good as they have been the last couple years. That's like saying hey we beat UVA 5 years ago when they sucked. You can't compare records like that and I agree comparing Royer's record to Toman's is not true apples to apples with the salaries. I dont know the character of the guy's on the team now but there were plenty of bad apples in the bunch during the time when I was there now. You raise interesting points that probably can't be discussed on here but may be valid.

The schedule wasn't ridiculously weak, it was weaker than last year but had we won 3 to 5 more games that our pen blew we would be in this year.


SJ and Smooth- As far as Neufang goes. You can't judge his numbers this year. 48 Ab's seriously??? Plenty of guys are stone cold through that many AB's especially when they are irregular. If you played baseball you know that you need the reps desparately in hitting to keep your stroke together. I dont know if he will be here or not but I do know he has a much better arm than Nate and displays raw power more than anyone this year when I watched BP. His JUCO numbers don't lie either. Mark my words if he's back, he will produce next year. Toman even said he expected him to be a middle of the order hitter this year. Nate got off to a fast start and so did many of the guys in the logjam of an OF so he never really got an opportunity.

well natural other than spiritual things the only way you can compare toman and royer is by wins and losses and toman's record is better. end of story. i am well aware that the spiritual side of this team is not the best but i did not feel the need to bring it up simply because my post was not a complete royer v. toman discussion, nor was it a "state of the program" post. i am also well aware of the fact that Al Worhthington has concerns about the direction of the program. if you think that all athletes on all LU teams are Christians well you live under a complete bubble. many athletes come to LU as non-Christians and then become saved and change their lives. their are some solid Christian guys on the team and hopefully they are leading by example and are trying to lead their unsaved teammmates to the Lord. you get on toman for his actions on the field?? can't a Christian disagree with a call?? i have never heard toman cuss at an umpire. Unlike you Natural, you are attacking Toman....real Christian-Like.....i have never attacked Matt Royer. i thought he was a fine coach, but Jeff Barber wanted to go in a different direction. i have not a dog in the fight, and personally i could care less how much money or time you have given to the ministry.i have given myself but i do not find the need to toot my own horn.

If you feel so strongly natural why not schedule a meeting with barber and JLF Jr. and discsuss it instead of ripping a coach here publicly. that is my problem. even if you are 100% correct about toman, what you have said is not appropriate as a Christian IMO. i will stand behind our coach and prayerfully if he is not leading by Christian example that LU will find someone that can.

No disrespect to you jenkins...but Coastal has [*]been nationally ranked for years...not just the last two. Coastal is doing this year what they have done pretty much the last 8 years. they are ranked higher this year however.but they are there top 20 every year.

The single most important issue is the spiritual witness you dismiss ! I am certain there are many who could care less about the witness both on and off the field. I am not one of them ! Save the lecture...I did go in private long ago.

First off, let's stick with the forum rules and not let this get personal. Everyone in this discussion wants what is best for the school. And I think it should be also noted that even the staunchest Toman supporters have nothing bad to say about Coach Royer. He did a fine job at Liberty and I hate to see his name run through the mud as fallout from issues unrelated to him.

It is fair game to discuss the different approach to recruiting that may or may not have occurred over the past few years ... as long as it is done in a civil & respectful manner. If there are philosophical differences (and I am not saying there are) they should be discussed in clear fashion that does not attack the character of those coaches & players wearing the school's name across their chest.

Personally I have no problem recruiting non-Christians on our sports teams as long as they follow our rules. If they understand coming in what we are about and they are willing to act appropriately then by all means coming and let us drive the Word into you for four years. As bigsmooth has stated, there is a ridiculously long list of athletes who came to LU as lost as could be who have had their lives turned around for Christ by their experience on the mountain.

I make no bones about the fact that I am a fan of both Coach Royer & Coach Toman. I do not believe it is necessary to choose between them. It is fair game to discuss whether a change was in the best interest of the university. But it is not OK to attack the character of either man out of hand.

Oh it's not problem, I'm not upset at all. Coastal has not been as good as they are this year bro. I've seen them the last five years and they have been good, but not this good. My point was simply that though I feel we are better, so is Coastal so we have to step up even more to stay with them. I dont know enough to comment on the other discussion other than I know there are plenty of guys, just look at football and basketball. I actually thought it seemed like the team (baseball) had better guys on it now than it did when I was there (with a few exceptions). Most of that is heresay, althought I will say I dont have a problem with Toman arguing calls, I have not heard him curse, not to say he hasn't. I dont think Toman picks the right battles sometimes, i.e. arguing over a small call early that makes blue mad the rest of the game

BLAH BLAH PETER PAN STATE OF THE BASEBALL TEAM BLAH - Not filtered, Not proofread either...uhoh

The schedule was a little weaker and - when we look at records vs. Top 50 yada yada, we see where the team is. We were a team with potential. Not everything went according to plan. It happens.

Let's not assume Coastal has sat on their hands over the past 4 or 5 years. Coastal was NOT a national powerhouse 4 years ago. They were on the verge. Now, they're a top 5 seed.

I have 3 issues with the program. Are they major concerns? To a point, but I still want to voice that I have great faith in Toman at this point. I've always voiced my opinion(mostly negative - in order to compensate for Rooster ) so understand that I don't have a filter or a side on this one.

1 - For all the great recruits we have brought in, we seem to have a couple major coaching issues that keep them from playing to their potential. Every other pitcher will have had Tommy John surgery in their 4 years here. That's a problem. I'm not a baseball mind but this HAS to be a number one concern for our Pitching Coach.

2 -There seems to be a lack of respect for either Toman or other members of the staff. Players only meetings should not happen at this level of baseball. The majority of complaints I have heard revolve around Toman's baseball experience both mentally and technically.

2a - Baseball is a mental game more than any other sport. With that said, the players I was around hinted at the enormous amount of unnecessary pressure they felt. Games in which LU scored 6 or 7 were marked with lashings about how the team needed to hit better. In times when players go in a slump and need a voice of confidence and security, they get benched. Maybe this contributes to the above paragraph?

3 - I cant speak to Toman's behavior. There should be a distinction between a manager's tirade and how players act off the field. Personally, I find his tirades to be comical, but there is room for improvement on his behavior. If you feel the need to speak to player's actions, I suggest you go through the proper channels, or air them on here. Actually, that would be pretty funny. We would have a chance to see Toman's "Mike Gundy" impression.

Your opinion of Toman cannot justify keeping Royer. They are seperate decisions, and need to be evaluted as such. I believe most of this issue and the process in which Royer was let go has been discussed and (according to what I know) I'd agree it was time for him to go. He was and is a very good ball coach, but there was a turning point somewhere along the line where he lost the team. The decision to hire Toman has been an experiment, one that has brought moments of excitement and others of frustration.....but that's to be expected of a program.

I've watched Danny Rocco coach us out of a chance to win a game, just as I have every other coach...good or bad. (other than volleyball......makes no sense to me) In this case, I think Toman needs time to develop certain areas as a manager. That's not going to happen if everyone is looking for an excuse to get rid of him. Call him a bust, but you'd only be declaring your opinion of his potential. Let's see where he takes the program over the next couple years.

Am I missing something with Worthington? I haven't heard anything from him.

Sly Fox....your trying to cut the baby in half. This is Not about Royer I promise. But character is the issue. Not arguing balls and strikes with an umpire. It goes much deeper . I,ll leave this alone now. But you are too quick to just paint what I have said as a character smear. There is substance behind my post. Not just some disgruntled rant !

Schfourteenteen and Rooster Cogburn a winning combination for Flame Fan Ballance!

I don't disagree with much of what you have written because I'm not close enough to the program to know the facts. I do think there is something just not right and I can't put my finger on it. Pitching is a huge part of the issues though.

I really don't want to get too involved in this one... I think when the coaching change was made I had some comments but I'd prefer to steer clear. I do just want to make a couple points real quick as an outsider -- and a former college player that was actually recruited to play at Liberty.

-Coastal HAS been good for the last 10 years but never this good. In fact until this recent run (last 4 years) had a Big South team ever gotten a #1 seed? Maybe CCU did once, never in back to back years. CCU is top 5 in the nation in most polls and the #4 seed. Shoot I think every D1 school in the nation with maybe 8-10 exceptions would consider that an AWESOME year already.

-To expect Toman (or any coach) can equal Gary Gillmore's success in a short time frame (3-5 years) is not realistic. Gary has slowly been improving and I would argue it wasn't until the beginning of the 2000's that Coastal became the 'elite' team in the Big South. Even then Winthrop won just as many titles and LU/WU/BIrmingham were all competitive and kept things close until 2007/08 or so.

-Coming into this year it was CCU, then WU/LU, then everyone else in the conference. Yes you guys missed out on a bid but moving forward its not unrealistic to thing the BSC could be a 3 bid league and its not unrealistic to say LU is (without improving) the 2nd best team in a top 10 baseball conference. That means your one step away from that consistent regional bid that teams like College of Charleston, or Elon have. Shoot Elon never made it before 2002 and look at them now, 5, 6 bids in 8 years?

-Lastly, I was recruited by Royer. I don't know Toman but I do know his assistant coaches. The conversation I had with Royer when we first talked about my interest in LU was primarily about the 'rules' and whether I'd be OK with them? I was never asked about my faith or beliefs. I distinctly remember the conversation, "You know we have some rules here at Liberty," and then he went on to describe some of them and asked "If that was something I could handle?" I said as long as I got to play baseball, and he said OK sounds good.

But here are my feelings as a player: 1) a lot of non-christian kids DON'T want to put up with those rules and expectations... Now once (if) you reach the CCU level then maybe you'll have the issue of kids just being baseball players. But I have a feeling most kids that "wanted to go to Liberty" growing up are either Christians or local kids -- am I wrong?
2) Is it about having a team of Christian kids? Or is it about giving kids an opportunity to play baseball in a Christian environment? I mean -- from my perspective, if you've got 15-20 Christian kids on a team with Christian coaches -- the other 15 guys are in a pretty good environment and have a pretty good example set for them. Never mind that the opportunity for all those guys to interact is something that is invaluable real world experience on both sides.

The Natural wrote:Sly Fox....your trying to cut the baby in half. This is Not about Royer I promise. But character is the issue. Not arguing balls and strikes with an umpire. It goes much deeper . I,ll leave this alone now. But you are too quick to just paint what I have said as a character smear. There is substance behind my post. Not just some disgruntled rant !

I was just making sure the ground rules are established. I appreciate your discretion in not going to the deeper areas. You'll notice I didn't shut down the conversation but just made sure everyone did so in a civil manner.

Thanks for the outsider perspective, uncafan. I do believe there is a legitimate discussion about the philosophy of bringing in non-Christian players into our teams across the board. We are far from the only school that battles this dilemma. BYU & ORU standout to me as schools who have faced similar choices. I find it interesting that the two most high profile football players in BYU history were both far from Mormon when they arrived on campus. In fact, I still shake my head trying to imagine how Jim McMahon survived four years in Provo. Ty Detmer wound up converting from Christianity while on their campus but he was just a Methodist kid from Texas when they brought him into their program. Obviously I am not suggesting we use the LDS as our guide for how to run a school. I am just illustrating how we are not alone in these discussions.

Schfourteenteen mentioned the Tommy John issues. That is a very big issue. Our handling of a pitching staff has been, how do I say this, less than good. We over throw guys. We don't do the basics right. Shoot, we've got a kid trying to pitch with a basketball right now. I'm not the best baseball mind but really, a basketball? I hate to think that Forslund is going to start out throwing 93 next spring and by the time we get to mid-April he'll be down to 87 simply because he's not being used right or something. I think if Steven Evans gets drafted the last pick in the draft he's out of here simply because he knows there's a better chance of him getting hurt here if he stays. Some of our guys may not pitch much in games, but they warm up for innings upon innings in the bullpen. Did you know that there is about a 2.2 run difference in our ERA when Nate calls pitches (the three weekend guys) as opposed to when our dugout calls pitches (the relievers and weekday guys)? This past Saturday, Chach warmed up for four innings in the HPU game and then was expected to start the CCU game, all while being 14 months off of Tommy John. Of Josh Richardson's 60+ pitches against Winthrop, half of them were sliders.

The thing that bothers me the most is the player turnover. There was a ton of turnover after Toman's first year and that's to be expected. There was a decent amount after last year. Right now, we're looking at losing somewhere around 16 players potentially and that's with only ten seniors. I know that in college athletics that sometimes players get their scholarships pulled, but I've never heard of a coach embarrassing a player by telling the entire team he was pulling the guy's scholarship. We've held other coaches to a certain standard when it came to player turnover, guys transferring, etc so I hope we keep that standard (and I'm confident we will).

We've got some absolutely great guys on this baseball team. All of them may not be Bible thumping Christians but they are great people. Is the spiritual side of things at the same level that it was under Worthington, Hunton, or Royer? Probably not. But it wasn't at that level under Pastors either. Getting the balance of spirituality and competitiveness has always been and will always be a struggle. If you look across the board at the different sports and different coaches throughout Liberty's history, some coaches were better at getting that balance than others. The ones that get the balance right are the ones that stick around for a long time (Green, Tolsma, etc). For anyone to think that we're always going to have a team full of great Christian guys is a bit much. We don't want to win at all costs, but if we don't win, that great spiritual coach won't have a job.

Bottom line: Toman is a great recruiter. He's bringing in a crap ton of talent to Liberty baseball. Our talent level is getting better and better every single year. With that being said, he still has some growing to do as a manager. He comes out of the Ray Tanner tree and Tanner is known as a micro-manager so Toman didn't have much input into what went on during games. He had a ton of experience as a recruiter and on staff but he's still gaining that experience when it comes to actually calling shots. He can get better at that. There's no doubt about that. The biggest thing, as with coaching in any sport, is bringing in assistants that know their stuff and that you trust to help you make decisions and then actually leaning on them for their opinions. If we can start to do that, I have no doubt we can continue to get better.

I don't normally post over here, because I don't know too much about baseball (that's the one with the bases in the diamond shape, right guys ), but I have to stick my two cents in here for what it's worth.

The question of how many Christians should be on the team is immaterial to me. Liberty doesn't really require a statement of faith anymore, right? And even when we did, there's no way for us to judge someone's heart even if they claim to be a Christian. We just don't always know with 100% certainty the situation in a person's heart. Many of our churches aren't willing to purge their church rolls of people who aren't Christians, why should we expect anything more from a sports team?

AND, some of the biggest jerks I know are professing Christians. A kid's bad attitude or actions doesn't mean he's unsaved. It just means he's got a bad attitude or he's doing some things wrong.

Is there a sports chaplain position at LU? (and if not, who do I apply to?) That would go a long way to make sure that the players' spiritual lives aren't sacrificed on the altar of victory.

i personally would love for the baseball team to have an ed gomes type like football does to help with their spiritual walk.