[ATrain]

So what do we need to do win that award again?

[The Judge]

A Bull dozer and 2.5 Million !

[Cider Jim]

Judge, your estimate sounds a lot for expensive than mine of just having SJ scatter some quality grass seed.

[SuperJon]

I'm sure you know it takes a lot more than that.


If we got a new field/stadium, I wouldn't be surprised if we went to the FieldTurf field.

[Cider Jim]

But Super, if we go with Fieldturf (again), we'll never win an award for having the best natural grass surface.

[SuperJon]

Awards like that mean nothing.

Maintenance would be next to nothing.

[MJBNY]

I liked your conversation so I thought I would chime in. As a scout & alum I believe we need to first set our sites on consistently winning the Big South.

Field & stadium improvements along with better upkeep of what we have is warranted & crucial for the recruiting process.

Ultimatley players will be the answer to getting to Omaha. Good players are a program's best asset to recruitng other good players. The kids themselves know better than any coach or scout, on who can and can not play.

Unfortunately, Liberty has not had enough contributions from alumni who are coaches & scouts. My personal belief is that the old school church networking does not bring the quality ballplayer to the LU campus like it did back in the 80's. The alumni/pro scouts (which there are 5, I think) need to step up but they also need to feel like they are a part of what is going on more than they are.

As I have posted here before, recruiting to Liberty is VERY DIFFICULT. A well organized, national recruiting network is the only way to think of Omaha as a goal. Vanderbilt has progressed to an elite program b/c they decided to recruit nationally. They pride themselves on academics & they were able to sell Vandy as the Stanford of the East. LU needs to take pride in being a Christian Univ & search the nation, as a coaching staff & alumni if we are to elevate our program.

[Sly Fox]

I agree 100& MJBNY. I feel the same way about all of our programs on campus.

[Hold My Own]

Good players are a program's best asset to recruitng other good players. The kids themselves know better than any coach or scout, on who can and can not play.

Yes!

[Fumblerooskies]

Along these same lines...it seems a top priority for the on-field component is pitching? I do not know the answer, so I will ask the question:
What is the current philosophy on developing the young arms?

One thing I generally liked about Pastors, is it seemed he used the reshirt process extensively...especially for the pitchers. That gives them a year to develop, without stressing the arms. Then, they come back as RS Frosh and can contribute...and by their 3rd year...they are key components of the staff. Am I off-base, here?

[Sly Fox]

I can tell you that most of the teams that head to Omaha don't use many redshirted pitchers. If they are good enough to get you to Omaha they are only going to be on campus three years tops (just two years in some cases if they hit age requirements) so you don't want to "waste" one of those precious years on campus. Most of the top schools receive a nice injection of JUCOs each year and then they are one and done.

[The Judge]

There are some very good baseball alums and scouts from Florida, ( Doyle, Dewitte, and others ) to Arizona ( Brown ) , Tennessee ( Gutter ), Pennsyvania ( Bream ) to Illinois and beyond that that could very well help the LU program get established as a powerhouse. Having an annual type forum where they all come to Lynchburg as part of " family " is the first baby step toward success. Having a Leadship Summit for baseball every year patterned after the ABCA format can assemble top travel players, coaches and those other " top tier " players together to learn from the very scouts former alums and pro guys that MJBNY talked about. Have one or two weekends per year where there are workshops teaching every aspect of the game to the youth travel coaches, parents, and high school coaches and you can begin to build a reputation of excellence. Involve those scouts and alums in their own spheres of influence to be apart of the LU tradition of excellence on and off the field. Have the LU players donate their time with younsters in a hands on clinic demonstarting the very fundementals being taught at the workshops.

The Gospel, chararcter, integrity and a commitment to excellence should alway be themes that run through these events. Bring back Coach Worthington, Richardson, Royer, Bream, Gutterman and you can build unity across the years while setting new goals. Have these same MLB scouts and LU coaches do honest evaluations of top HS kids who attend these clinics as well. Also, have the golf outing as part of the wekend where we bring in our alums and traet them as part of the program...and yes...raise money ! My guess is...anytime they come in contact with a quality player who fits our needs...we will get first nod and a good shot at them. Networking within your assets isn't just an option...it is the only way to succeed longterm. It doesn't matter who the coach is either. It must be done. Its all there for the taking if someone organizes the effort. Off my soap box.

[sitemdown77]

Your big guns on the mound aren't usually the guys you red-shirt. However, Pastors did use the red-shirt extensively and other teams do for other guys who make a huge impact on teams. Guys such as Larry York, Matt Hagen, Aaron Grijalva, and Michael Solbach. I'm not saying it's not possible, but many of the huge impact guys in JUCO are looking to go to a big name school to possibly win a CWS ring, and then get drafted. It will be possible for Liberty to bring in these guys, it's just tough right now. These guys want to go to an ACC, SEC, etc. school for name recognition and to be seen. The red-shirt guys are either kids who are a little undersized and need to develop or a kid who has a ton of talent and needs a year to grow into his body/learn to control things/learn and understand the game a little more. The red-shirts are very much needed in a program for kids to develop and many times become the back-bone of the team. These guys are almost always fantastic moral guys, hard working, and very dedicated, and just want to help the team anyway they can. The #1 team in the nation right now Vanderbilt has 5 red-shirt pitchers including 2 of their relievers/mid-week starters (40 plus innings). Some have quite a few I saw, and some don't. It really just depends on how the program is set-up. Some like to develop guys, and some like to have a lot of transfers.

The verdict is still out on the new rules Fumble, and haven't even been "officially" passed yet, but the chances are really good that they will. Some coaches think they will hurt the mid-majors, and some coaches think they will really help to get better kids. While many of the huge schools will just give a kid 10% b/c they always wanted to play at a big name school, they won't get anything now b/c the recruiting has to be more concentrated with the limited scholarships and minimum of 33%, and many kids could fall to more of the mid-majors for better money. Who knows though? I guess we will see in the few years to come.

I'm really excited that everyone on here is looking to what we can improve and that the program could possibly have huge improvements in the next few years here.

[Fumblerooskies]

The verdict is still out on the new rules Fumble, and haven't even been "officially" passed yet, but the chances are really good that they will. Some coaches think they will hurt the mid-majors, and some coaches think they will really help to get better kids. While many of the huge schools will just give a kid 10% b/c they always wanted to play at a big name school, they won't get anything now b/c the recruiting has to be more concentrated with the limited scholarships and minimum of 33%, and many kids could fall to more of the mid-majors for better money. Who knows though? I guess we will see in the few years to come.

Thanks. I see it really hurting the $$$ Top 30 schools like Stanford, Rice...ACC schools like Wake...where 33% will still leave the parents with a huge financial burden. Those might be players the mid-majors should go after. Although LU is private...it is an affordable private school....when compared to many others.

[MJBNY]

I think you have some good and lofty ideas. The organization you spoke of must come from the school, not from the alumni themselves. Reach out in an organized fashion & see what potential can build. If we create momentum the program will have a chance to develop the long term reputation that is currently propelling Winthrop and Costal.

In regards to evaluating players on campus, I think this is a bad idea. Expecting good players to travel to Lynchburg to be evaluated is unrealistic, not to mention there are rules about on campus workouts. Secondly, as a scout, I do not want to interfere with the coaching staffs opinion and thoughts of a prospective player. My role is to recommend players to the coaches and when the coaches like a player I am happy to encourage that player to consider LU b/c of my experience as a Flame.

I do like to golf however, please keep this idea!!!!

[MJBNY]

I would hope that redshirting players is not a major part of building a successful program. The process is necessary and sometimes successful. Many times the successful redshirt has had an arm injury and was forced to miss time. Without having direct knowledge of the Vandy reference I would guess injuries would have been involved.

LU can create a niche by over scholarshiping the right players and allowing them to play a lot as freshman. If a track record can be developed of playing and pitching freshman then this could be used as a recruiting tool to counter attack the lore of ACC & SEC schools who are not playing freshman. This is where the proposed rule of 33% minimum scholarship will work in LU's favor.

[MJBNY]

Don't worry, there isn't enough pithcin to go around. It is very hard to come by. Unfortunately you can' t just wiggle your nose and have 3 Omaha callibur pitchers show up on campus.

Royer & Weaver have been very dilligent in looking for pitching and creative in their attempts to find those front line guys, but a stroke of luck always helps too.

We could review how some of the better LU pitchers arrived on campus over the past 15 or so years and almost without exception their was some luck (or grace for the diehards) involved.

[new flame]

See: ECU.

Here's what $11 mil + looks like in a baseball stadium. Good enough to be one of 14 college stadiums in EA Sports' 07 NCAA Baseball video game.

[SuperJon]

I absolutely love their stadium. The stadium itself is beautiful. Everyone I've talked to said the club house was great. The playing field has a sort of old school feel to it.

[new flame]

Seats 3,000 in the stands, and they'll pack 2,500 on the grass berm in the outfield.

[SuperJon]

The pictures of the students tailgating out beyond the fence the entire game are awesome. People don't think ECU has a good fan base but if you live east of Raleigh, you're an ECU fan. Their following is the biggest after the Big 4. They have a better baseball following than Wake/Dook and have a better football following than Dook.

[flameshaw]

The pictures of the students tailgating out beyond the fence the entire game are awesome. People don't think ECU has a good fan base but if you live east of Raleigh, you're an ECU fan. Their following is the biggest after the Big 4. They have a better baseball following than Wake/Dook and have a better football following than Dook.

Yeah, but so do we. Duke students go to the fottball game on Saturday because that is the only place on the entire campus that is quiet. Great place to study.

[ATrain]

I think there was more Maroon and Orange last time I saw a football game at Duke...

[flameshaw]

Duke football is an oxymoron.

[new flame]

They have a better baseball following than Wake/Dook...

They have a better baseball following than anybody in NC, and most of the nation for that matter. According to http://www.ncaa.org/stats/baseball/atte ... index.html for 2006...

2006 Baseball Home Attendance Leaders
Division I
AVERAGE HOME ATTENDANCE
Team Dates Att Avg
1. LSU 36 263,534 7,320
2. Arkansas 28 199,450 7,123
3. Mississippi St. 28 193,703 6,918
4. Texas 30 161,392 5,380
5. Nebraska 24 122,216 5,092
6. Mississippi 36 174,756 4,854
7. Clemson 39 184,946 4,742
8. Alabama 38 173,450 4,564
9. Texas A&M 31 138,805 4,478
10. Florida St. 36 158,055 4,390
11. Rice 43 180,306 4,193
12. South Carolina 35 133,652 3,819
13. Wichita St. 35 131,279 3,751
14. Florida 35 123,022 3,515
15. Southern Miss. 33 109,200 3,309
16. Baylor 32 96,427 3,013
17. Tulane 37 106,862 2,888
18. East Caro. 36 102,475 2,847

45. North Carolina 41 52,907 1,290
50. North Carolina St. 31 36,414 1,175