[flamesfilmguy]

I'm not a toman hater just yet. But in my opinion there are some in game decisions that made no sense this first series. Not only that but it happened a lot in big games last year as well. trust me I watched bobby cox manage the braves my whole life. the last 5 years or so he was a poster child for not knowing when to pull or not pull a pitcher. and toman is giving me that same frustration with his decisions with the bullpen. Not saying I'm an expert but I know enough to know that some of the decisions he makes don't make sense at all.

[aredd33]

The closer is not the stopper. The closer is not the stopper. You can't bring a closer in in the 7th every game if he comes into a game in the 7th he probably won't be able to pitch again all weekend. However, if comes in and gets 3 or 4 outs he is able to pitch again.

[BJWilliams]

Stopper is more a term reserved for that one pitcher on your staff that you know you can give the ball to and you can almost guarantee a win every time they take the mound. Steve Evans could have been called that...maybe even Shawn Teufel could have been our "stopper"

[jenkins]

sure you can use the term stopper for the ace as well...that is meant for stopping losing streaks..hence the stopper. It's also used for the closer. Dane isn't the stopper he's been the long man/ spot starter last year. Richardson could have thrown a couple friday and a couple today. You have no midweek game this week.

[From the class of 09]

I only watched the first game. But here is my immediate opinion...

I don't see us being anywhere near where we were last year. i'll be happy with over .500

trust me I watched bobby cox manage the braves my whole life

Not saying I'm an expert but I know enough to know that some of the decisions he makes don't make sense at all

[aredd33]

Okay jenkins, its the Friday game against Coastal its the 6th inning with one out we are up 4-3. The pitcher gets into a first and third jam. You really wanna bring in Richardson in that situation? He could get 5 or 6 outs and MAYBE throw again Sunday depending on how many pitches or get 11 outs and completely burn him up. Or Toman could give the ball to what he thinks is the best option and then give the ball to Richardson in the 8th or 9th with the lead like a closer is supposed to be used for. A closer in NOT the stopper.

[aredd33]

I've never even heard a pitcher that comes out of the pen labled as a stopper anyway.

[flamesfilmguy]

surprised at all the apologists after seeing us get out scored 34-11 in a 4 game series to kick off the season. Forgive me for thinking this was an unacceptable way to start the season.

[prototype]

Could you imagine what Coach Royer would have done with this talent;)

[SuperJon]

I'd say he would've won around 40 games and we would've been out of the regionals.

He helped build a very good program but we needed someone to take us over the hump. I just don't know if we got that someone.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Could you imagine what Coach Royer would have done with this talent;)

Please, do we have to start AGAIN???

[prototype]

We don't... Just makes you think...

[ToTheLeft]

Could you imagine what Coach Royer would have done with this talent;)

Please, do we have to start AGAIN???

Fire Danny Rocco!

Jesse Sanders is overrated!

Layer doesn't use the talent he has properly!

RD was a great coach!

Karcher wasn't as bad as everyone claims he was and could have gotten us to the playoffs!

John Wayne is boring!

[From the class of 09]

surprised at all the apologists after seeing us get out scored 34-11 in a 4 game series to kick off the season. Forgive me for thinking this was an unacceptable way to start the season.

I'm not saying this is a good start by any means but I'll give the team more than one weekend before I rule them a .500 team at best Lot of games yet to play

[SuperJon]

I've never even heard a pitcher that comes out of the pen labled as a stopper anyway.

That's what Dane Beakler is. He's the guy that we can put into any situation at any point in the game and come out with minimal damage. That's Dane's role. When we get ourselves into a crappy situation, we call on Dane to get us out of it.

[BJWilliams]

I've never even heard a pitcher that comes out of the pen labled as a stopper anyway.

I was just thinking about that this morning before convo...I think that every staff should have that ace starter who you can give the ball and can give you between 5-7 good strong innings and can get the team on a winning track (stopper) but also there should be that reliever who can come in in a tough spot and can get that 1, 2 or 3 outs that you need and keep either the other team from a big inning or from getting on the board entirely.

As to FFG's comment, I never said that this was an acceptable way to start the season either...Im just not gonna throw up the white flag of surrender on the season after one series. As 09 said, there is still LOTS of baseball yet to be played so no point in giving up on the guys just yet


Edit: I wrote the first part as Jon was making his post

[prototype]

Could you imagine what Coach Royer would have done with this talent;)

Please, do we have to start AGAIN???

Fire Danny Rocco! NO - He's doing fine. We just need to have better expectations here and a better OC.

Jesse Sanders is overrated! YES. He's a good player, but he's not as good as everyone thinks YET...

Layer doesn't use the talent he has properly! NO IDEA. Not sure how I would know this. Seems to do just fine...

RD was a great coach! YES. You might have not liked him, but the guy could recruit and win.

Karcher wasn't as bad as everyone claims he was and could have gotten us to the playoffs! DEAD WRONG...He was worse. He couldn't separate being a coach for a Christian School and being a College Football Coach.



John Wayne is boring! ABSOLUTELY WRONG - He always stayed cool in the toughest of situations...

[ToTheLeft]

I was just trying to tick Rooster off. I wasn't being serious.

I think there is a shred of truth in all of those except the Karcher one, tho.

For the record, I like RD as a person. Don't know about as a coach of an NCAA team, never got to see him coach. But as a person, I think he's great.

[prototype]

I know TTL...I was just playing along... I don't take this board to serious. I know the school is in good hands and people who know a heck more than I do, make decisions. I just loved Royer as a person and as a COACH. He was successful here with a small percentage of the resources and money Toman has been given.

[aredd33]

I've never even heard a pitcher that comes out of the pen labled as a stopper anyway.

That's what Dane Beakler is. He's the guy that we can put into any situation at any point in the game and come out with minimal damage. That's Dane's role. When we get ourselves into a crappy situation, we call on Dane to get us out of it.

Right, I understand that. What I'm saying is that a stopper is refered to as the guy who stops a losing streak like BJ said. I've always heard people like Beakler be called the go to guy or something of that nature. Me and you are on the same page it was jenkins that was trying to say other stuff.

[prototype]

Though i have never heard this listed as an official term. It is a valid term -
Answers.com
stopper

American Heritage Dictionary:
stop·per

Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary
(stŏp'ər) pronunciation
n.

1. A device, such as a cork or plug, that is inserted to close an opening.
2. One that causes something to stop: a conversation stopper.
3. Baseball. A relief pitcher, especially one called upon to protect a lead.
4. Sports.
1. A player who excels on defense, as in basketball.
2. In soccer, a defensive player who plays behind the center midfielder and often guards the opponent's best forward.
3. A goalie.
5. Games. A card or cards preventing one's opponents from winning all the tricks in a particular suit in a hand of bridge.

tr.v., -pered, -per·ing, -pers.
To close with or as if with a stopper.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/stopper#ixzz1Ecu1bbJE

[ToTheLeft]

The Rays fans on draysbay.com refer to a Beakler type guy as the "bullpen ace". The best guy you've got to come in and get outs, regardless of the situation, just like your staff ace is the guy you want to come in and get a win regardless of who you're playing.

J.P Howell was our Bullpen Ace for a while. If he comes back healthy this year he will be again. He got some saves, sure. But he also came in in the 6th, 7th, or 8th if that was a high pressure situation.

Beakler is LU's version of the bullpen ace.

[aredd33]

Yeah, I always thought of Beakler as the "go-to" guy.

[jenkins]

aredd...im not disagreeing with you about the starter...but many many of the big league teams refer to the closers as the stopper as well. I have had extra innings for the last 4 years and have heard michael kay call Mo the stopper countless times, same with Orsillo and Remy with Paps. Joe Buck called Brian Wilson the stopper no less than a dozen times for teh Giants in the playoffs. Either way, it can be used in both regards, heck just check what proto listed aboce from answers.com .

Bj, i dont think were throwing in the towel, that was just a very dissappointing way to start the season for a team with little room for error in order to reach our goal. As light as our schedule looks, i hate that we had to open with Mercer, if we could have flip flopped the weekends with North Florida I think it would have helped us tremendously. First, it would've given Toman a chance to break in the line-up and see who's going to produce. Second, baseball is such a timing sport and it's very difficult to come out with the right timing without having played any games other than inter squad scrimmages. It just stinks taht one of the top 4 teams we play all year had to be the first series of the year on the road. Looking back, we were set-up to have a very rough weekend with 5-6 new starters in the lineup and 2 guys that haven't pitched in a live game in over a year, and Linza who basicallly rode pine the last month of last season due to loss of control. We had a lot of guys going out there not really knowing what to expect and we didn't have that garbage team to get our confidence up like we've had in some years past.