[SuperJon]

It was obviously hyperbole and an overreach but it doesn't negate the other truths. Do some people like him? Absolutely. He's a charismatic guy and can sell ice to an Eskimo. Personality can only get you so far. He completely lost me with the choke job at PC last year. Something like that has no place in athletics and especially not at Liberty.

[adam42381]

Did Toman actually choke a player? If so, was it ever addressed or was it covered up? I must have missed that one.

[Flamepop]

I love that you picked that quote out but didn't even touch on any of the other things, including the sentence right before that in which he should've been at the very least suspended for and possibly fired for.

What else would you like me to comment on? I too am unaware of the choking incident. The whole diatribe is off base Jon. Coastal's Friday night starter had TJ, should they fire their coach? How many games have Liberty pitchers missed in the last two years? Dudley's back was the only long term problem I remember. He doesn't take care of his players? Sorry but that's also way off base. Your conclusions seemed based on your own version of reality. If the players really hate him why are Haley and Bream back? Why was Linza and other past players around this spring?

Do you know who reads this forum? I'd be willing to bet Coaches Toman and Quinn do not. The players do, recruits do. What do you think they make of your make believe world. You hurt this program more than you help it. If you don't like the coach fine, but do not make stuff up to try to prove your point. E Mail the AD, Dr. Falwell for all I care, but think before you post.

[jbock13]

Bunt.

[SuperJon]

The choke and pin against the dugout wasn't covered up, but it wasn't reported. It happened on a road trip and wasn't caught on tape. It was handled in house.

As for Tommy John, off the top of my head there is Robertson, Marsh, Swanson, Umberger, and McDougal. Redal also had arm trouble that led to him never being able to pitch. There are others I can't think of but it's not just about Tommy John. Keegan's arm almost fell off his junior year and we kept him pitching and even had him practicing with a basketball. There'll likely be 1-2 guys that have to get it by the end of this year. Our pitchers are constantly over used, over worked, and over pitched. Our relievers get up and pitch 1-3 innings to warm up before ever coming in the game, if they ever even come in. That's not to mention the many times they warm up, sit down, warm up, sit down, etc.

As for players coming back, that's normal at any school. Some people need to finish their degrees (i.e. Bream, Hagen). Some of them want to get a master's degree (i.e. Haley). Some of them want to get into coaching and have to start somewhere. To play the other side of the "why do they come back" card, let me ask why they are so quick to leave? Why don't they stick around for more than a year? Why are they gone once the degree is finished?

On the subject of coaches reading this board: they most certainly do. Toman has made comments to people about me and the things I've said on here. That's how I know he reads this. Every coach that cares about their ego reads this board. It goes back to Dunton who would even post on here. This board is read by many more people than you realize and to think coaches, administrators, and executives don't read this message board is an ignorant opinion. That's why I think about exactly what I'm saying. This place is the sounding board for alumni to give their opinion and actually be heard. Whether or not we're taken seriously or anything is done about what we say is a different story, but we at least know people are reading.

All of this stuff is the "extra" stuff and isn't even the main point: We're not better under Toman than we were under Royer. We have all of this extra talent but the same results. We are one of the few teams to win 40+ games and not make the regionals and we've done it twice. If we're going to invest this much into a program, why should we choose to deal with all of the extra crap when someone who did things the right way was just as good? Surely there's someone out there who could not get to a regional and still be a good representative for our school. Maybe there's even someone who could get us to a regional.

[flameshaw]

It was obviously hyperbole and an overreach but it doesn't negate the other truths. Do some people like him? Absolutely. He's a charismatic guy and can sell ice to an Eskimo. Personality can only get you so far. He completely lost me with the choke job at PC last year. Something like that has no place in athletics and especially not at Liberty.

And that is why it doesn't belong here. You are talking about a person in a very negative way and there is no room for overreach/hyperbole in that case. As flamepop said, recruits and others read this board and it could be hurtful for the program.
There was an incident I witnessed a few years ago, where I wish he would have choked a player. I have no knowledge of the specific incident that you speak of, nor of the context of his actions. But we have all lost it before. It is not easy to have your future and financial stability determined by the action of kids 18-22 years old.
Hopefully we can put this behind us and move on. LU has always been the place for 2nd chances and I believe we been blessed because of that. I am not aware of any 3rd chances being granted, and rightly so. I have faith in the administration to do the right thing. Their track record is pretty good so far. GO FLAMES!!!!!

[adam42381]

If he actually choked and pinned a player against the dugout, he should have been fired as soon as the team returned from the road trip. If a professor did this to a student, it would not have been handled "in house." The professor would be arrested for assault.