The most successful program on Liberty Mountain deserves its own forum. We give Coach Green and the Lady Flames their props while breaking down their run to the Big Dance once again.

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By flamesfilmguy
Registration Days Posts
#601908
I'm surprised it took this long for an athlete at Liberty to do this. Freshman All Conference player. not exactly what you want to see.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#601924
ballcoach15 wrote: June 11th, 2020, 5:27 am She could have been recruited, then encouraged to transfer by another school.
Yeah, and it could have been the Russians. :roll:

I accept the reasons she gave, but I also don't rule out that because of the 2 high scoring JUCO guards we signed, the likelihood that her role going forward may not have been quite what she was expecting it to be could have also been a factor in her decision.

I will be surprised if she is not granted an exemption to play immediately wherever she goes.
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By LUOrange
Posts
#601926
Her announcement was classy and respectable, but when she blamed the "leadership and culture" that's all I needed to hear. Sure, Jr's comments didn't help and may have been her spark, but overall, it says to me that she wasn't a good fit for Liberty. But any organization is bigger than one person, even it's leadership. Most organizations will be there long after it's leaders and members are gone, so the questions people have to ask themselves are, "Why am I here to begin with? What are my goals and what are my commitments?"

Again, she doesn't appear to have been a fit, unless there is more to the story such as her actual talent or fit with the team. A free ride to play D1 basketball is hard to pass up regardless of the school is hard to pass up. I wish her well and am curious to see where she ends up. But WBB will be fine.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#601934
She obviously didn’t feel comfortable at LU any longer. That means it’s no longer a good fit. I wish her no animus and a wonderful college career.
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By Class of 20Something
Posts
#601937
LUOrange wrote: June 11th, 2020, 9:22 am Her announcement was classy and respectable, but when she blamed the "leadership and culture" that's all I needed to hear. Sure, Jr's comments didn't help and may have been her spark, but overall, it says to me that she wasn't a good fit for Liberty. But any organization is bigger than one person, even it's leadership. Most organizations will be there long after it's leaders and members are gone, so the questions people have to ask themselves are, "Why am I here to begin with? What are my goals and what are my commitments?"

Again, she doesn't appear to have been a fit, unless there is more to the story such as her actual talent or fit with the team. A free ride to play D1 basketball is hard to pass up regardless of the school is hard to pass up. I wish her well and am curious to see where she ends up. But WBB will be fine.
This is a bad take man. She literally said the players are coaches were a fit. She didn't "blame" leadership and culture. She is holding them accountable for their actions.

What needs to be heard is that we know of black people in both student and employee roles at Liberty that have said racial insensitivity was the core reason for their departure.

It is a failure of leadership to ignore these decisions. The correct course of action is to publicly acknowledge that a small exodus of black members of the community is occuring and acknowledge that something has made them feel that way. Regardless of if there is actual prejudice, the existence of real action with a communicated cause means that these individuals believe there is. That means the black community needs to be engaged in a way that shows they are heard. Is it acceptable to Liberty for black students and employees to feel unwelcome here? If not, what are we doing that is causing them to feel unwelcome?

Should any group of people feel unwelcome at Liberty? If you think there is ever a yes answer, you need to have a long hard discussion with Jesus about who isn't good enough. The school is a fundementally a ministry for His glory. We cannot tolerate prejudice. It is disgusting and abhorrent. These are your brother and sisters reaching out to tell you there is a problem and you discredit them, their opinions, their feelings, and how they said it. Where is your compassion? Which Jesus are you following, because that's nothing like the one in the Gospels.
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By LUOrange
Posts
#601949
I don't wish her any animous or ill will, and hope she finds a school more to her liking. I can understand her frustration and even disgust with Jr. or the "leadership," as he frustrates me as an alumnus. So if her issue is Jr. or his leadership team, then say so like many others have said so on Facebook, Twitter, etc. I can understand and sympathize with that. But the "culture" comment is what got my attention.

Because as I stated before, Jr. maybe Liberty's President, but he alone is not Liberty. Neither are his loyalists. Where I work, the leadership is also very lacking, but I'm not doing what I do for them. It's our mission, what we do that keeps me and my colleagues there. That's no different than the vast majority of staff and students at Liberty. Why are all of you still engaged Liberty fans, supporters, and/or employees? I hope and believe that it's because of the idea and mission of Liberty. Again, Liberty is more than Jr. and his circle.

To me, when she or anyone says the culture they are talking about everyone and everything at Liberty. Which is why I say that she probably wasn't a good fit. Unless, of course it's a playing time and role issue, as was also suggested by others. I'll also add that as a student and former employee in the 90's, I had issues with some of the leadership but never the culture at Liberty, and I'm not white. Again and again, I wish her well.
By ballah09
Registration Days Posts
#601950
I’m sorry but Jr is Liberty. He controls everything including the board. There is a culture problem at Liberty right now. There is hardly anything spiritual about it now. Plus there is racial tensions that Liberty has to face and fix. It’s been well documented. There’s mass resignations from black staff and faculty right now who are saying the same thing. This isn’t an isolated incident.

So yes there is a problem.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#601954
LUOrange wrote: June 11th, 2020, 11:37 am I don't wish her any animous or ill will, and hope she finds a school more to her liking. I can understand her frustration and even disgust with Jr. or the "leadership," as he frustrates me as an alumnus. So if her issue is Jr. or his leadership team, then say so like many others have said so on Facebook, Twitter, etc. I can understand and sympathize with that. But the "culture" comment is what got my attention.

Because as I stated before, Jr. maybe Liberty's President, but he alone is not Liberty. Neither are his loyalists. Where I work, the leadership is also very lacking, but I'm not doing what I do for them. It's our mission, what we do that keeps me and my colleagues there. That's no different than the vast majority of staff and students at Liberty. Why are all of you still engaged Liberty fans, supporters, and/or employees? I hope and believe that it's because of the idea and mission of Liberty. Again, Liberty is more than Jr. and his circle.

To me, when she or anyone says the culture they are talking about everyone and everything at Liberty. Which is why I say that she probably wasn't a good fit. Unless, of course it's a playing time and role issue, as was also suggested by others. I'll also add that as a student and former employee in the 90's, I had issues with some of the leadership but never the culture at Liberty, and I'm not white. Again and again, I wish her well.
Liberty of 2020 is not the Liberty of the 1990’s. For better and worse. If she feels culture outside of the team isn’t a good fit for her I’m ok with that as a reason to leave (not that I’m ok with it existing).
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By cruzan_flame13
Posts
#601958
ballah09 wrote: June 11th, 2020, 11:45 am I’m sorry but Jr is Liberty. He controls everything including the board. There is a culture problem at Liberty right now. There is hardly anything spiritual about it now. Plus there is racial tensions that Liberty has to face and fix. It’s been well documented. There’s mass resignations from black staff and faculty right now who are saying the same thing. This isn’t an isolated incident.

So yes there is a problem.
The problem is deeper than Liberty as I stated in another thread. This entire event with George Floyd is controversial, but I do not see it as a race issue(corruption with some officers and the victim was black). The media and other groups claims it to be and that will always stir the emotions of Americans. I'll not go into that conversation but the fact that people are leaving because of Jr's tweet is a bit abused. If there was ravioli issues before, why didn't these folks leave? Have there been people leaving and these incidents were hushed? Clearly Jr's tweet was dull but I saw what he was doing there. People claim that he should not have used politics in a time like this, but what is the media and politicians doing right now? The thing is people are confused and psychologically deceived and the media and politicians have been using incidents to draw up conflict. This I'd a dialectic. Out of all terrible incidents that occur between citizens and police(no matter the skin tone), the media selects a few to promote on that TV box (propaganda) to ignore a conflict, get the people's reaction and then give them a conclusion. This isn't new and the reaction will always be like this. I hope Asia finds another school that she can feel comfortable in. There's such a bigger picture here and there's so much questions I still have about what occurred. I will not buy into the racial problem in Liberty's culture(may be a few but not a large amount of individuals). It's fine that one does not agree with Jr. And even his yes men. Nonetheless let's not act like there's people that use race for everything just to get votes or to promote their agenda across to shape a reaction among specific groups. I grew up being told that life is against me because of my skin tone; I'm sure Asia was brought up in some way like that, especially in public school education. It is what it is.
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By LUOrange
Posts
#601965
cruzan_flame13 wrote: June 11th, 2020, 12:21 pm
ballah09 wrote: June 11th, 2020, 11:45 am I’m sorry but Jr is Liberty. He controls everything including the board. There is a culture problem at Liberty right now. There is hardly anything spiritual about it now. Plus there is racial tensions that Liberty has to face and fix. It’s been well documented. There’s mass resignations from black staff and faculty right now who are saying the same thing. This isn’t an isolated incident.

So yes there is a problem.
The problem is deeper than Liberty as I stated in another thread. This entire event with George Floyd is controversial, but I do not see it as a race issue(corruption with some officers and the victim was black). The media and other groups claims it to be and that will always stir the emotions of Americans. I'll not go into that conversation but the fact that people are leaving because of Jr's tweet is a bit abused. If there was ravioli issues before, why didn't these folks leave? Have there been people leaving and these incidents were hushed? Clearly Jr's tweet was dull but I saw what he was doing there. People claim that he should not have used politics in a time like this, but what is the media and politicians doing right now? The thing is people are confused and psychologically deceived and the media and politicians have been using incidents to draw up conflict. This I'd a dialectic. Out of all terrible incidents that occur between citizens and police(no matter the skin tone), the media selects a few to promote on that TV box (propaganda) to ignore a conflict, get the people's reaction and then give them a conclusion. This isn't new and the reaction will always be like this. I hope Asia finds another school that she can feel comfortable in. There's such a bigger picture here and there's so much questions I still have about what occurred. I will not buy into the racial problem in Liberty's culture(may be a few but not a large amount of individuals). It's fine that one does not agree with Jr. And even his yes men. Nonetheless let's not act like there's people that use race for everything just to get votes or to promote their agenda across to shape a reaction among specific groups. I grew up being told that life is against me because of my skin tone; I'm sure Asia was brought up in some way like that, especially in public school education. It is what it is.
I agree with you completely, Cruzan. I'll also concede that there is a huge generational issue at play here at Liberty and nationally. But I don't believe there's a significant racial issue at Liberty or from most Christian conservatives. I've experienced incidents of racism in my life, but never at Liberty and I'm up there a lot.

Perhaps, I read too much into Ms. Todd's statement. But I get defensive of friends and family, warts and all. Perhaps that's one of my many flaws.
By LUOrange
Posts
#601968
Purple Haize wrote: June 11th, 2020, 12:01 pm
LUOrange wrote: June 11th, 2020, 11:37 am I don't wish her any animous or ill will, and hope she finds a school more to her liking. I can understand her frustration and even disgust with Jr. or the "leadership," as he frustrates me as an alumnus. So if her issue is Jr. or his leadership team, then say so like many others have said so on Facebook, Twitter, etc. I can understand and sympathize with that. But the "culture" comment is what got my attention.

Because as I stated before, Jr. maybe Liberty's President, but he alone is not Liberty. Neither are his loyalists. Where I work, the leadership is also very lacking, but I'm not doing what I do for them. It's our mission, what we do that keeps me and my colleagues there. That's no different than the vast majority of staff and students at Liberty. Why are all of you still engaged Liberty fans, supporters, and/or employees? I hope and believe that it's because of the idea and mission of Liberty. Again, Liberty is more than Jr. and his circle.

To me, when she or anyone says the culture they are talking about everyone and everything at Liberty. Which is why I say that she probably wasn't a good fit. Unless, of course it's a playing time and role issue, as was also suggested by others. I'll also add that as a student and former employee in the 90's, I had issues with some of the leadership but never the culture at Liberty, and I'm not white. Again and again, I wish her well.
Liberty of 2020 is not the Liberty of the 1990’s. For better and worse. If she feels culture outside of the team isn’t a good fit for her I’m ok with that as a reason to leave (not that I’m ok with it existing).
Isn't that what I've stated?
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#601971
I don’t know. It was a really long post with big words and few pictures
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By cruzan_flame13
Posts
#601972
Class of 20Something wrote: June 11th, 2020, 12:34 pm The difference is Jerry isn't a politician. How is this hard to understand. Start acting like you have a personal relationship with Jesus or the people of the Christian University you run will start calling for you to resign. Why is this hard?
It doesn't have to be a political, plus politics is involved in every institution. I'm not saying it's wrong for people to suggest Jr. to resign, but that's not going to end the problem. The fact that we are a Christian school is a big issue. If you do not confirm in their nihilistic diverse mission as most schools are these days, we will still be looked at as racist, hateful people. That's what I want you to understand. Even if a new President comes in, his response to these issues will never be accepted to many. There's a deeper issue than what we are seeing right now and it will always be there until Christ returns.
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By TH Spangler
Posts
#601980
I'm not falling for it. The establisment, via the Democratic party are desperate to regain power. They are playing the race card and really don't care how much damage it does. Trump will target winning the black vote in 2020. And his Christian conservative supporters will be with him. The corporate elites have let us all down the past 25 years.
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By bigsmooth
Registration Days Posts
#601981
not surprising at all. i was waiting for this to happen. this could very well start a trend. Jr. wont change unless it affects the bottom line of the University
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By TH Spangler
Posts
#601983
cruzan_flame13 wrote: June 11th, 2020, 12:48 pm
Class of 20Something wrote: June 11th, 2020, 12:34 pm The difference is Jerry isn't a politician. How is this hard to understand. Start acting like you have a personal relationship with Jesus or the people of the Christian University you run will start calling for you to resign. Why is this hard?
It doesn't have to be a political, plus politics is involved in every institution. I'm not saying it's wrong for people to suggest Jr. to resign, but that's not going to end the problem. The fact that we are a Christian school is a big issue. If you do not confirm in their nihilistic diverse mission as most schools are these days, we will still be looked at as racist, hateful people. That's what I want you to understand. Even if a new President comes in, his response to these issues will never be accepted to many. There's a deeper issue than what we are seeing right now and it will always be there until Christ returns.
Amen
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By Class of 20Something
Posts
#601994
Oh so because I can't be like Christ I'm okay to just stop trying? What kind of logic is that?

Anyone that knows me knows, I am as conservative as they come. But that cannot be the hat we wear when we are discussing Kingdom matters. We can't do the right thing because the other side of the political asile won't be satisfied? Come on.

Can Liberty do a better job of communicating to all people groups that they are welcomed and loved?

Does Jr impede that end?

If a Champion for Christ doesn't love first, what are they?

Why did God create? LOVE

Why did He give us free will? LOVE

What are the two greatest commandments? LOVE GOD LOVE OTHERS.

Why did Jesus substitute himself for us on the cross? LOVE

Now I have the pleasure of being a daddy. Love isn't always sweet. Sometimes it's discipline. Sometimes it's letting them make mistakes. That's part of it. But it is unconditional and unrelenting and above all else it is overwhelming.

Why are there people that don't feel loved at Liberty?

If there are people that don't feel loved at Liberty there is a foundational disconnect between our calling and the execution of that calling. Own the problem. Own the solution.
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By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#601999
bigsmooth wrote: June 11th, 2020, 1:00 pm not surprising at all. i was waiting for this to happen. this could very well start a trend. Jr. wont change unless it affects the bottom line of the University
It may indeed start a trend, although I doubt there are a whole lot of Liberty athletes who are actually bothered enough by Jerry's nonsense that it will override how much they love their coaches and the other benefits that come with being a student-athlete at LU. I do believe that this opens a door for some who may be thinking about leaving for more "conventional" reasons like lack of PT. If they say it's for reasons of racial insensitivity, they can get an almost sure-fire exemption to play immediately.
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By cruzan_flame13
Posts
#602000
Class of 20Something wrote: June 11th, 2020, 1:40 pm Oh so because I can't be like Christ I'm okay to just stop trying? What kind of logic is that?

Anyone that knows me knows, I am as conservative as they come. But that cannot be the hat we wear when we are discussing Kingdom matters. We can't do the right thing because the other side of the political asile won't be satisfied? Come on.

Can Liberty do a better job of communicating to all people groups that they are welcomed and loved?

Does Jr impede that end?

If a Champion for Christ doesn't love first, what are they?

Why did God create? LOVE

Why did He give us free will? LOVE

What are the two greatest commandments? LOVE GOD LOVE OTHERS.

Why did Jesus substitute himself for us on the cross? LOVE

Now I have the pleasure of being a daddy. Love isn't always sweet. Sometimes it's discipline. Sometimes it's letting them make mistakes. That's part of it. But it is unconditional and unrelenting and above all else it is overwhelming.

Why are there people that don't feel loved at Liberty?

If there are people that don't feel loved at Liberty there is a foundational disconnect between our calling and the execution of that calling. Own the problem. Own the solution.
Thats not what I said; of course we continue to show the love of Christ to others. My point is that people will never agree because of that even when politics was involved. That was Jr. tweet; a message concerning more about the corona speech than the Floyd incident. Yet people got emotional about it and made decisions establishing assumptions which didn't need to go that route. As I stated before, most of the black community will immediately go that route when something involves a white and black person and not the entire situation. What does the Floyd situation have to do with questioning if Liberty is racist or not concerning a tweet which actually was posted mocking a governor and his actions?.This whole situation is a political stunt from both sides plus other groups who use race for their gain. As I said again, police officers have been doing these things to other blacks and other races, and they were never as viral(even when there were videos of incident). Now because this incident is more viral (mostly by medias wuth their own agendas),we are here questioning if there's a systematic issue of a man and school because his political tweet which showed another man being racist, yet no one is looking at him? With all this confusion and even deceit (dialectic), what great conclusions will come out of this? When will it end? Jr resigning? The fact that you're a Christ follow will cause challenges in this world. That will be Liberty's issue now and in the future and these situations will continue since people usually immediately make a good amount of their decisions based on their emotions.

Also there have been people who didn't feel loved at Liberty for years because of some reason. These things will never end but we have to continue to allow Christ to use people in the university for His will. Demanding Jr. to resign based on perspectives will not completely change these issues. That's my position of this situation.
Last edited by cruzan_flame13 on June 11th, 2020, 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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