The most successful program on Liberty Mountain deserves its own forum. We give Coach Green and the Lady Flames their props while breaking down their run to the Big Dance once again.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, thesportscritic

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By Brokeback Flamer
Registration Days Posts
#331035
Granted I have not been here in awhile, but this game really gets to me. Yes, Baylor is one of the better teams we have played. The problem is we are not any closer to competing with elite teams then we were 13 years ago. We have been waxed by ODU, UT, Duke, LSU and Baylor, just to name a few. IMO, the foundation was laid YEARS ago and it is time to start actually BUILDING something. We only have 2 wins in 13 appearances in The Big Dance. It is great that we have been there so many times, but only 2 wins??? Where are the wins against quality opponents? Where are the 'competitive losses' to quality opponents? If you look at the regular season scores against top teams a decade ago, and the scores against top quality opponents the last few years is there much of a difference? Has the gap been closed much?
Beyond a shadow of a doubt, we are a dynasty in the Big South. But is that enough? We have proven we are soo far from being an elite Women's team to think otherwise is kool aid drinking. The proof is that we are excited about being ranked in the top 25 of the MID MAJOR poll. And then not only the top 5 of the poll!! Seriously? Then we throw up losses against Creighton, where we managed a whopping 35 points and College of Charleston. Yes we are without Brown, but if you are an "elite" team you should handle inferior competition like that without a player of Browns caliber. Then ask yourself how much of a difference would she have made against Baylor? My answer: Not much. Which goes to my point, we are nowhere NEAR being an elite team. The question is WHY?
We have not had elite caliber guards since the "Twins". Crystal Peace, Stephanie Walker and that group were close but they didnt play much. The guards we do have compound their lack of athleticism with the ability to turn the ball over. A previous poster said that if you are not athletic, you can still be effective by NOT turning the ball over. With our athletic guards, well they turn the ball over as well. Does no one on the staff know how to coach point guards? Turnovers have been a problem for over a decade.
We actually have more athletes on the team then I can remember. However, from top to bottom we are not as athletic as "elite" teams. The better your athletes the better defensive pressure you can put on the ball. The more defensive pressure the more opportunity for easy baskets on the other end. When have we had the ability to really pressure the opponents guards?
Shooting. How long ago was it when we beat UVa with a 3 in the corner? How was THAT for fun!! Now let's look at our shooting percentages outside the paint. Heck, take Feenstra's numbers out and look at our shooting percentages overall. Not what you would call an elite number either. This years shooters are either irratic or too slow of foot. (See above about athleticism) Instead it seems our strategy is to revert to Big East basketball of the 80's and throw it up and keep rebounding until we can make a lay up. How many Top 25 teams implement THAT strategy?
Finally, community support. Where is the PR for this program? Where are the team camps filled to overflowing? Have we been doing our best to capitalize on the success of the program? Where are the 'human interest' stories? As one of my professors used to say "You need to toot your own horn when no one else is doing it for you"
What is tough, is I like Coach Green. Solid guy, running a solid program. I am not "calling for his head" either. Am I a spoiled fan? Maybe. Would Charleston Southern kill for our record? Sure. But I am more concerned about LU's program. I want to be a national power. IMO winning the Big South is no longer a big deal. Making the Sweet 16, competing and beating top teams and making the Top 25 should be our goals and used as a measuring stick. If we are holding other coaches accountable for their success or lack there of when do we start doing the same for the women's team. If we feel that dominating the Big South is the best we can do then great. If we think we can do better then, let's start holding people accountable for those expectations. Ok, have at it. I will now return to my "secure, undisclosed location" until I feel the need to vent again. Our to defend this post!
User avatar
By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#331043
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Didn't realize you have been gone. :)
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#331045
What a curious topic to choose to emerge from your closet. :wink:

My response is essentially 3 words:

Big
South
Conference

While I also wish we had more than 2 NCAA tournament wins to show for our years of dominance, I think it's pretty easy to put it in perspective. Those 2 wins are one more than all the other women's and men's basketball programs in the history of the conference combined. It's just not realistic to think we can be an elite national power until we can upgrade our conference affiliation.

I do believe however that we have players now who have the potential to win another tourney game or 2 in the next couple of years.
User avatar
By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#331061
Athletic, 6'8" centers in women's basketball are almost a once in a lifetime phenomenon. LU had ours in Katie; now Baylor has theirs.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#331146
Katie was a great player for us but I am not sure I would ever use the word 'athletic' to describe her!
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#331156
I wouldn't either Haize. I think "well coordinated" might be as far as I would go on that. She was good though. She really knew how to use her size.
User avatar
By flamesbball84
Registration Days Posts
#331157
Be glad you even got two wins, the majority of teams in low major conferences never have a chance to even compete in an NCAA Tournament game, much less WIN one and you guys have won two.
User avatar
By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#331232
Truth is, in the past I've gone to more women's games than men's game, because they win! :lol:
By Stevev
Registration Days Posts
#331239
It is hard to complain about the success of the Womans basketball program the last several years but I am thinking that we are reaching a sticking point with the team and maybe they have gone as far as they can go with our BSC affiliation. It reminds me of what happened to SF Austin and the great teams that they had over the years but stayed in the same weak conference and now you never hear much about them now. I am thinking we could be falling into that trap.

I will have to say that I am disappointed with the team so far this year due to the high expectations put on them and the high ranking in the Mid Major poll this year and them not living up to that ranking. But I also am surprised at what we did last year even early in the year with losing Megan Frazee to graduation and even with all of the injuries and limited bench we didn't miss a beat and I think exceeded expectations. Maybe it all goes to show us how important Amber Mays and Devon Brown was to the team's chemistry. I think that we will get it together and play typical LU basketball and I think that Coach Green will make the appropriate changes to get that done. We need a win at JMU.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#331242
Brokeback, why'd you have to log into your fake name to post that rant? Why didn't you have the balls to post it under the name that everyone knows you by?
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#331284
As former owner of the Brokeback moniker let the record show that the current owner only posts under the Brokeback name. To paraphrase "I know Brokeback, Brokeback is a friend of mine, I am no Brokeback". I will say that we had a long discussion about the state of women's basketball at LU which prompted them to post the RANT.
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#331594
I was going to say Haize just this summer you were chumming it up with Coach Green!!! I figured it wouldnt be you.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#331628
Hold My Own wrote:I was going to say Haize just this summer you were chumming it up with Coach Green!!! I figured it wouldnt be you.
Yeah, I usually run into him on the Summer AAU circuit. Occasionally Ill come over and help with him at his camp. He tells me how bad the officiating is and I tell him my churches nursery doesn't have as many whiners and criers as a D1 sideline!! :D And "doing what I do" I run into him and the Lady Flames from time to time.
I will say that I have a different opinion than my friend. I feel that to WIN the game you have to PLAY the game. The only way LU will advance in the NCAA tournament is if the make the NCAA tournament.
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#331634
Purple Haize wrote:Occasionally Ill come over and help with him at his camp.

:nod

That is where you were spotted!

BTW you dont "run" into him I would say you "gimp" into him :D
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#331660
I prefer to think of it as my Over 40 strut! (12 knee surgeries and 1 back surgery will do that to ya)
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#331729
Even though we've been the dominant team in the Big South conference for the past 10+ years, an ACC caliber player who has always dreamed of going to an ACC school is going to go to an ACC school. Our conference affiliation holds our women's bball team back, or until the other sports (and by other I mean men's bball and football) start making some noise and getting some GOOD national publicity, no one other than top-level Christian athletes and/or mid-major talent is going to come to LU.

The Big South also holds us back in seeding at the tournament. Several years, teams we beat were seeded 5-6 seeds high just b/c their conference afforded them more quality wins (see: Xavier in the A10) despite them having more losses than us. LU is consistently top 100 in the RPI at the end of the season...other Big South schools are lucky if they're in the top 150.

Carey Green has probably done the best job that anyone can do considering what he's been given and where LU is. We get a better conference, he'll be able to get better athletes.

As for the PR, again, it's our conference. When Virginia Tech or UVA came to town, people came out to the Vines Center. Our fans won't stay for an entire football game to watch us demolish Charleston Southern, what makes you think they'll even show up for women's basketball against a little school we've beaten the last 30 times we've played them? And while our athletic's department has a great publicity department, they can't conjure up a snowstorm and place a home game w/ 1st place in the Big South on the line during CFAW every season (see 2006 v. High Point).

Thats just my opinion.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#331752
Why not A? If we all got together and prayed REAL hard for a snow storm it MIGHT happen!! Good post!
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