A Sea Of Red

I'm being biased here but the two greatest players ever to wear a Flames uniform would be Mark Chafin and Karl Hess.
They set the standard for Flames Basketball. And besides that i put a hurting on them in pick up basketball games.

This guy's only made four posts and he's already stupid. Most people don't get to that point until #50 or 60.

Rockthejungle wrote:I'm being biased here but the two greatest players ever to wear a Flames uniform would be Mark Chafin and Karl Hess.
They set the standard for Flames Basketball. And besides that i put a hurting on them in pick up basketball games.

Sounds like you're from my era. Mark and Karl had a huge impact in giving credibality to our program in its infancy. They were players who could have played at a higher level, but chose LBC (yes, it was that long ago) for non-basketball reasons.

They were NOT the 2 best players we have had. Baily Alston and Matt Hildebrand would be my picks for that honor.

Hildebrand & Aluma would appear to be the obvious top two.

Jungle, if Chafin hadn't have gone to LBC, he would have probably ended up at an NAIA team in West Virginia; Hess, who I saw play several times against Tenn. Temple, was an NCCAA level player: that is to say, though both did well when LBC was in its basketball infancy, most likely neither player (in their prime) could have made our 2008-09 team under McKay, and probably would have never even been recruited today, since we no longer look at NAIA & NCCAA level talent.

5 posts, and yet no mention of Scar?


he must still be sleeping....

I would go with Travis Eisentrout and CJ Cowgill

Maybe he means to say best backcourt?

Hildebrand was a one man playmaking & scoring show. LU was very thin in that area when he played. Toomer was a solid lockdown defender, but not much of a scorer at the 2.

LU's best backcourt tandem may have been Marcus White & Larry Jackson. Maybe Woodson & Blair come next. And in the D2 era, you had Kenny Gunn & Eric Gordon, and Timmy Scarborough & Bailey Alston.

I guess some oldtimers may be able to pencil Hess & Chapin in somewhere after that because there haven't been that many memorable tandems from what I've heard.

hurricane fan wrote:I would go with Travis Eisentrout and CJ Cowgill

I think you meant to post this in the "The two LU basketball players ever with animals in their last name" thread.

Let's take it easy on our new poster. Clearly there is a generational thing working here.

And no disrespect whatsoever to Hildo, but Bailey was better. Back me up on this one, Scar.

I was there at the beginning of the Liberty Basketball program and Hess and Chafin were a great backcourt tandem...Both of those guys could have played D1 basketball .
Let me tell you a little known fact ..Liberty played VA.Tech back in the day and Karl Hess hung 32 on them ..Tech fans gave him a standing "O" when he finally was pulled ...

Cider Jim wrote:Jungle, if Chafin hadn't have gone to LBC, he would have probably ended up at an NAIA team in West Virginia; Hess, who I saw play several times against Tenn. Temple, was an NCCAA level player: that is to say, though both did well when LBC was in its basketball infancy, most likely neither player (in their prime) could have made our 2008-09 team under McKay, and probably would have never even been recruited today, since we no longer look at NAIA & NCCAA level talent.

I sort of agree with you on Chafin, although I think he had a couple of D2 offers. As far as Hess being an NCCAA level player, weeeeeell, that is the level he played on, and he was a 2 time first team all-american, averaged 26 ppg over his last 2 years (and it would have been at least 30 with the 3 point line). He also led the team to a national championship. That kind of productivity tells me he MIGHT have been able to play at a higher level. Obviously, he would not have put up those numbers.

Hess was not big or a great athlete, but he had great basketball IQ and his skill level was off the charts. He would have been the best pure shooter on this years team, and although it would have been harder to get off his funky from-the-hip deliver against D1 defenders, I think he was clever enough that he would have gotten up his share. Defending D1 guards would probably have been his toughest challenge. He would not have started for this years team, but would have enabled BJ to get a bit more rest while taking some of Ohmersons minutes as well.

LUconn wrote:

hurricane fan wrote:I would go with Travis Eisentrout and CJ Cowgill

I think you meant to post this in the "The two LU basketball players ever with animals in their last name" thread.

I'm glad someone caught the sarcasm......

Old Flame & Jungle, you really can't compare the NCCAA to the NCAA. An All American for the NCCAA most likely would not even make the team of a DI program. I saw 4 years of NCCAA at Tenn. Temple, when we had All Americans on our team and were contenders for the NCCAA championship every year, but we got blown out by SoCon UTC every year when we would play them across town in the Round House.

I think this discussion is completely inaccurate. The best two players in Liberty Baseketball History are Tim Layer.

hurricane fan wrote:I would go with Travis Eisentrout and CJ Cowgill

CJ...one of the best checkers players in LU Basketball history!

Cowgill was a ugly dude...

Aluma and Julius best 2 ever.

Hess couldn't have played higher... he is better ref than player.

You will never convince me that Karl Hess could not have played D1 basketball. I'm not saying he would have been a star, or that he is even in the picture for the best player at LU. I'm just saying he could have played at this level.

Setting aside the numbers he put up against NCCAA competition, as Rock said, he scored 32 against VT. As a HS senior, in the Dapper Dan Roundball classic, he scored something like 45 in the Pennsylvania East vs West game playing with and against players who went on to play high-major college ball. Following that performance, he got interest from some big schools, but he was already committed to LU.

paradox wrote:Maybe he means to say best backcourt?

Hildebrand was a one man playmaking & scoring show. LU was very thin in that area when he played. Toomer was a solid lockdown defender, but not much of a scorer at the 2.

LU's best backcourt tandem may have been Marcus White & Larry Jackson. Maybe Woodson & Blair come next. And in the D2 era, you had Kenny Gunn & Eric Gordon, and Timmy Scarborough & Bailey Alston.

I guess some oldtimers may be able to pencil Hess & Chapin in somewhere after that because there haven't been that many memorable tandems from what I've heard.

Timmy Scarborough and Bailey Alston played 3 seasons together. 2 of those were division 1 and the soph season was a non conference schedule of division 1 but the Mason-Dixon Athletic Conference games were still division II. In short, we only played a handful of division II opponents. The rest was division 1. Bailey had his best games against the bigger teams. He is always going to be the best offensive player in my mind at this point in history. He was virtually unguardable. Hildo was probably the most complete player in our history. He did everything right most of the time. The best 2 players in LU history in terms of talent might be Alston and Brewington. Their individual skills were unparralleled. I will have to say the best in terms of impact and dominance would have to be Juice and Aluma though.

Again, a sound argument can be made for a number of individuals as best player and a number of tandems as best backcourt. For me, winning and playing in meaningful games is a big part of the equation.

Hopefully, the best is yet to come in terms of both individual performance and team accomplishments.

As far as D1 goes, I guess you & BA were in that provisional/transitional phase, but technically, you're right, it was D1.

Rashad Robinson and Jeremy Eck

whmatthews wrote:Rashad Robinson and Jeremy Eck

HA! I forgot about Rashad Robinson. I swear he missed 8 out of 10 layups.

LUconn wrote:

whmatthews wrote:Rashad Robinson and Jeremy Eck

HA! I forgot about Rashad Robinson. I swear he missed 8 out of 10 layups.

That means he made 2 out of 10 which might be stretching it.

The Best Flames hoopster eva is Mr. Bailey Alston!
Hildo is my #2!

Scar you are #3!