[LUUKFAN]

I noticed in the pictures of the new Bball locker room that there are 4 players in the HOF. Why isn't Bailey Alston up there? I would definitly have put him in before Aluma.

[olldflame]

The 4 players on the wall are those who have had their jerseys retired. I think a lot of us believe Baily deserves the honor, but keep in mind that Karl Hess, who is not only LU's all time leading scorer, but probably the most important player in our history due to the legitimacy he gave to an infant program, only had his retired last year. Jersey 00 was a 2 for 1 deal with Nwosu and Aluma, and I don't think anyone questions Hildo belongs. I have a feeling Alston and Blair will get their spots on that wall soon.

[Sly Fox]

Welcome to the board, LUUKFAN. Feel free to dive right into the conversations on the board.

[flameshaw]

I noticed in the pictures of the new Bball locker room that there are 4 players in the HOF. Why isn't Bailey Alston up there? I would definitly have put him in before Aluma.

Maybe that is why they didn't ask you. Welcome aboard, just wanted to be the first to jerk your chain.

[LUUKFAN]

I noticed in the pictures of the new Bball locker room that there are 4 players in the HOF. Why isn't Bailey Alston up there? I would definitly have put him in before Aluma.

Maybe that is why they didn't ask you. Welcome aboard, just wanted to be the first to jerk your chain.

WOW that didn't take long! Now I feel like one of the boys. I joined a long time ago but something happened to the password and it would not let me post. Just now got around to signing up again. Looking forward to joining the fray.

[Sly Fox]

We're just getting warmed up. In three weeks this place will get seriously intense.

[paradox]

Alston was a great athlete, but unfortunately, he is associated with losing, whereas Hildo, Aluma, and Hess are associated with winning and helped bring recognition to the program.

[TIMSCAR20]

Alston was a great athlete, but unfortunately, he is associated with losing, whereas Hildo, Aluma, and Hess are associated with winning and helped bring recognition to the program.

Larry Blair played for 1 winning team and so did Alston. I dont' think that should have any bearing on your status as a hall of famer in my opinion. LB got a championship but that is the only difference. Both players belong on that wall and it will probably happen soon for both. Alston didn't get it right away because he was not a good citizen as he will admit himself.

[Cider Jim]

Anybody hags remember the pressure that Meyer was under to retire Hildo's jersey? Instead, he decided to "retire" all of the seniors' jerseys with a banner of all their numbers that used to hang in the Vines--Hildo, Toomer, Chapman (Scar, who am I missing?).

[paradox]

Anybody hags remember the pressure that Meyer was under to retire Hildo's jersey? Instead, he decided to "retire" all of the seniors' jerseys with a banner of all their numbers that used to hang in the Vines--Hildo, Toomer, Chapman (Scar, who am I missing?).

You'd be missing Williams, if you're referring to senior starters.

[paradox]

Alston was a great athlete, but unfortunately, he is associated with losing, whereas Hildo, Aluma, and Hess are associated with winning and helped bring recognition to the program.

Larry Blair played for 1 winning team and so did Alston. I dont' think that should have any bearing on your status as a hall of famer in my opinion. LB got a championship but that is the only difference. Both players belong on that wall and it will probably happen soon for both. Alston didn't get it right away because he was not a good citizen as he will admit himself.

Blair will eventually be up there because of the '04 championship and the NCAA berth and because he is LU's all-time scorer. There's really no argument there.

Alston may have sentimental value for some, but there was really no value added to the program while he was here. There were no championships and no real achievements that would carry over into the D1 era.

Alston was really not associated with anything on the winning end while he was here, so he is more representative of an athlete and an individual peformer who excelled. As good as he was individually, he really doesn't represent anything in terms of exposure to the program as such. I guess he would be lumped in with a number of other quality players that were very good, but not quite retired-jersey material: Chafin, Webber, Gordon, Issacs, Coleman, Jackson, Vickers, ect. Of course, Chafin and Vickers won something and brought exposure to the program, but Hess seems to have been selected as the representative for that group. Webber, Gordon, Issacs went deep into the NAIA finals, but came up short in terms of bringing recognition to the program. Jackson and Coleman came up a little short on the D1 side, otherwise, they may have been in the conversation.

With our history, four players, with one on the way, having their numbers retired, is more than enough. No disrespect to Bailey though. All of us who saw him play, have fond memories of the man. He was a special athlete.


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[TIMSCAR20]

Dox, I agree with you but you are equating team success to individual honors. If you put up numbers like Alston, in most programs you are honored period. Has little to do with your teams performance.

[bigsmooth]

agreed SCAR. dox, where do you get some of your thoughts?? as SCAR said, in any program, numbers like bailey's get you recognized. LU would do well to bring bailey back and give him his due.

[olldflame]

You are truly living up to your username paradox. In another thread you have both Alston and Coleman on your all time "pre-McKay" starting 5, but now you are saying they aren't worthy of hall of fame honors.

http://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5157

[paradox]

You are truly living up to your username paradox. In another thread you have both Alston and Coleman on your all time "pre-McKay" starting 5, but now you are saying they aren't worthy of hall of fame honors.

http://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5157

Big Mike and BA are still on my all-time team and I'd vote for both of them to be elected into an LU hall of fame, however, I would not take the honor as far as retiring a jersey. That should be reserved for Hildebrand-Aluma like achievements in terms of taking the program to new heights and attaining national recognition.

[paradox]

Dox, I agree with you but you are equating team success to individual honors. If you put up numbers like Alston, in most programs you are honored period. Has little to do with your teams performance.

Where the program is in terms of winning and recognition carries a significant amount of weight with regard to retiring a jersey. In other words what does he represent to the program?

Secondly, as good as he was, he waned in elevating the play of those around him, so there is room for doubt as far as the complete team player element is concerned. This is a team game and everyone is, in one way or another, ultimately defined in relation to what the team does or does not achieve. Having said that, I would venture to guess that Bailey would have fared pretty well on some better LU teams. Some have argued that he was not team-oriented and would have held some good teams down. Personally, I think that he would have fit in nicely on most good LU teams as a slasher on the wing, and that's why I have him as my 3 on my all-time starting five.

It's not unusual for a bad team to have a guy who averages 20-25 ppg. That alone will not get your jersey retired. There has to be something else, and this is the area that appears to be lacking. He may or may not have been a victum of circumtance, but the powers that be will most likely be looking for at least one significant team achievement before a player can be considered for a retired jersey.

When the conversation drifts into the purely speculative dimesion, then a great deal of conjecture can arise in terms of what could have been under different conditions. Once we open that up, then there are several other names that must be entered into the conversation as well. In speculative terms, we could hypothetically put Eric Gordon on any of our D1 teams and probally improve them a great deal because EG was a consummate team player. In addition, he had outstanding outside and inside scoring range, he was unselfish and a real playmaker from the 2, and he played solid D. Had he been here in the mid-90's, then his jersey would probally be hanging from the rafters. There are others, it's just that Gordon has always been my sentimental favorite. He's just a footnote in the LU annals, but those old enough to remember, have memories of him helping to lead LU into the NAIA elite eight.


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