A Sea Of Red

1. Matt Hildebrand:

18ppg with 5 assists as a senior; he was the unequivocal leader of the '94 team that put a major scare into then defendending champion, UNC, in the first round of the NCAA tourament; he is one of the top assists leaders in LU history; he is the all-time 3pt % leader; he is the all-time FT% leader of the D-1 era and he finished fourth in the nation in that category, twice; Additionally, he brought a number of intangibles to the table with his hard-nosed style of play.



2. Larry Blair:

LU's all-time scoring champion; led his team into the NCAA's during his freshman season with a very memorable performance in the Big South final; excelled as a scoring leader, despite the fact that he was frequently the primary focus of the opposing defense and often LU's only option.



3. Bailey Alston:

At 6-3 and with a long wing span, he was versitle enough to slide over to the wing spot. His strong inside moves, consistant close range scoring, solid defense, rebounding ability, and ballhandling skills, and slash moves make him a real asset at this position. What he lacks in three point scoring proficiency is more than made up for in Blair and Hildebrand.



4. Mike Coleman

Coleman averaged nearly 9 boards a game with a field goal percentage just under 65% during his three seasons as a starter; he was the team leader of a very memorable 91-92 squad that won 22 games after only 2 wins in D1 the previous season during LU's first D1 season; At 6-8, Coleman was a team-oriented player who brought many intangibles to the table and may represent the best combination of rebounding and inside scoring effciency ever at LU.



5. Peter Aluma:

Aluma was a formidable shot blocker and very solid defender in the paint; In addition, he was a smooth scorer with a soft touch for a big man; Aluma was an integral part of the memorable '94 team that hung tough with UNC in the big dance; he excelled, despite the fact that he was the constant focus of the opposing defense and often drew double and even triple teams whenever he touched the ball.

some have added Gabe Martin, Nwosu, LJ or Marcus White.

I always liked Rodney Hardin (sp?)

check the "All Type Depth Chart" thread

http://flamefans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1686

and we have to put sYOU cKNOW aWHO r in there too, so he won't cry
No one wants to see that happen.

These threads never get old. Looking back at the history of LU basketball, we have had some really great players that have come and gone.

Makes me even more excited for the future of this program.

I don't know too much about pre 1998, but if Gabe Martin is not on an all-time starting LU 5, I'm impressed with Liberty basketball.

I can't argue much with those picks dox, and although Coleman played almost exclusively in the post and Alston at the 2 guard, I have no problem in getting a bit creative to get the best lineup. All of these players had 4 year careers except Alston, who transferred from Rutgers as a Sophomore, but he put up bigger numbers in 3 years than almost anyone else did in 4, and was IMHO the best player ever at LU; certainly the best on offense.

There are a lot of "could have beens", like Marcus White or Gabe Martin, who only played a couple of years either because they transferred in or left early, but at their best were as good as anyone we have had at their position.

The other possible argument is whether pre D1 players like Karl Hess or Cliff Webber might have been as good as Coleman or Blair, but that's hard to know, so I would stick with the D1 players as well.

Well I can tell you that Coleman wanted no parts of Cliff Webber when he would come back and play but part of that is because he was a man and Mike was still a kid growing into a beast. I would take Webber over almost any big man Liberty has ever had. He was talented. Skill with the ball, touch around the basket and sheer strength. Dox's starting 5 doesn't have enough three point shooting power IMO as Alston was horrible, Blair had an average 3 point shot which only leaves Hildo who was and is exceptional. I would put G-Mart in there for Blair but not because he is necessarily a better player but Martin does everything. Defense Rebounding etc. Alston could have been a great defender but he never worked at it. If he did, he probably would have been drafted. Truth is he couldn't even guard me and I was not one of the best to ever put on a Liberty Uniform that is for sure. I could live with Coleman at the 4 but if I am going with my best 5 I would put Julius Nwoso at the 4 and Aluma at the 5. Hildo, Alston, Martin, Nwosu, Aluma would beat a lot of people. If I was looking for a true point guard though I might put Marco White or Brian Woodson in there but Hildo is certainly the man for the job even though he could play the 2 at the division 1 level very easily. If I were doing wish list I would have to throw Brew in there along with Vincent Price from VA Union. Price was a 6-7 version of Alston. He blocked shots though and rebounded. He was special. NBA material and I don't say that lightly. He never played a minute at Liberty due to severe personal issues that make D-Brew's issues pale in comparison. I wouldn't put Michigan St Transfer Parish Hickman in there though. Just not enough of a team player.

I don't have any stats in front of me (just a very cloudy memory), but wasn't Julius Nwoso a much better offensive player than Peter Alumi, if we were just picking one them for the center position? I recall Alumi being more of a shot blocker, but that Nwoso was a much stronger scorer and rebounder.

Nwosu's game was based on raw athleticism. If he had developed a bit more skill, and particularly better hands, he would have had much more than the cup of coffee he had in the NBA. He was a better rebounder than Aluma, but I would give Peter the edge offensively. and although Juice was a better leaper, Aluma's incredibly long arms and inate timing made him a better shot blocker.

Since SCAR opened it up, I have to say there is a good argument for Cliff Webber based on the fact that although we were playing in NAIA and D2 during his career, our biggest rival was Longwood, featuring Jerome Kersey, who went on to a long and productive NBA career as Clyde Drexler's right hand man in Portland. Cliff's battles with Kersey were monumental, and by no means lopsided.

Cider Jim wrote:I don't have any stats in front of me (just a very cloudy memory), but wasn't Julius Nwoso a much better offensive player than Peter Alumi, if we were just picking one them for the center position? I recall Alumi being more of a shot blocker, but that Nwoso was a much stronger scorer and rebounder.

There were better rebounders than Aluma: Coleman, Nwosu, and Dixon to name a few.

However, I have to give the nod to Aluma because of his defensive prescence, which is vital to the center position and his scoring, which was above any of the D1 centers--around 17ppg as a starter. In addition, there are many items that can't be measured statistically, such as the constant double and even triple teams that he drew. In fact, no big man in LU history drew more attention from the opposition than Peter Aluma.

I have Coleman in as my primary rebounder because he out-rebounded Julius Nwosu during the two seasons that they were in the lineup together as starters. In addition, Coleman's lifetime FG% during his three seasons as a starter was just under 65%. To me, Coleman at 6-8, was head and shoulders above any LU player that ever played the four. He was the complete package for the 4, as far as rebounding, scoring, defense, and size are concerned.

olldflame wrote:Nwosu's game was based on raw athleticism. If he had developed a bit more skill, and particularly better hands, he would have had much more than the cup of coffee he had in the NBA. He was a better rebounder than Aluma, but I would give Peter the edge offensively. and although Juice was a better leaper, Aluma's incredibly long arms and inate timing made him a better shot blocker.

Since SCAR opened it up, I have to say there is a good argument for Cliff Webber based on the fact that although we were playing in NAIA and D2 during his career, our biggest rival was Longwood, featuring Jerome Kersey, who went on to a long and productive NBA career as Clyde Drexler's right hand man in Portland. Cliff's battles with Kersey were monumental, and by no means lopsided.

You're making a solid argument for Webber.

I will say this though, players such as Aluma, Coleman, Hildebrand, and Nwosu have winning in their favor in that LU enjoyed its peak winning period as far as D1 and overall level of competion is concerned.

Players such as Karl Hess, Mark Chafin, Eric Gordon, Steve Issacs and Cliff Webber also have winning in their favor at various levels of play as well. Truly great players will produce more wins per say. I'd say that Alston would be the one exception because he had virtually no supporting cast at all, from what I've been told.

I'd say that Alston had a pretty good backcourt mate that was nearly his equal in terms of skill and athleticism (from their coaches mouth), but I would be accused of being biased Really though, we had perimeter players back then. Charles Richardson is one of the best shooters that we have had at Liberty, I actually shot the same percentage as he did but I didn't shoot as many from 3. We had Mike Coleman for a year but he was hurt for most of that season and he didn't turn into the beast he was until halfway through Alston and my senior season. If we had a Julius or an Aluma we would have won a few more games but because we were independent during that time, we played a few more money games and we played on the road a lot to get games. If Alston was pushed to be a more complete player and leader like Hildo, we would have won more games too. We competed with nearly everyone we played but winning and competing is different. We could score on anyone with Alston on our team because we had others that were scorers too but people weren't guarding them closely and on a given night one of us would light it up. We hit the century mark a few times during, lets call it the Alston/Scarborough era

lets call it the Alston/Scarborough era

Scar, your humility is showing again: anyone who ever saw that guard tandam play knows it was the SCAR & Alston Show!

how does alex compare with those big time rebounders? he did break a vines center record.

Manger, I think he stacks up pretty well based on his first year, but IMHO it's hard to rate someone as one of the best in program history after one year, or even 2, when you have guys who got it done for 4 years.

With all kidding aside, we do have to give Scar this: he was without a doubt the best compliment to Alston that BA had in his three years here. TS, although a late bloomer, was certainly at least a level above the likes of a Stephon Leary or a Steve Farquhar.

Also, during the Bailey Alston era, LU was a pultry 34-49. How many games would LU have won without him? That's a scary question. As good as he was as a coach, it's a wonder that Meyer even survived that era.

LU'sbestmanager wrote:how does alex compare with those big time rebounders? he did break a vines center record.

If he improves on defense and puts up some bigger numbers against some of the stronger competition, then he should certainly enter in to the conversation.

This past season was mostly a learning year for Alex. With his size and athleticism, he will certainly have the opportunity to prove that he belongs among LU's best.

The current player that could very well be headed to our list would be Anthony Smith. He takes smart shots, he can knock down the clutch 3, he's a decent ball handler for a wing, and he's an above average defender.

Think about it. Gabe Martin actually played the 4 when LU won the Big South in '04, Darryl Williams only started one season, Mark Reed was decent but not great and Jay Boykin was talented but always hurt. As a potential go-to player over the next two years, Smith could very well surpass them all and end up as the best ever at the three gaurd spot.

If Ace plays like he did at VMI last year (40 points) on a semi-regular basis next season, he should pass Coleman as our all time best power forward.

Cider Jim wrote:If Ace plays like he did at VMI last year (40 points) on a semi-regular basis next season, he should pass Coleman as our all time best power forward.

You could say that about anyone, just put another name and position in there like:

"If Armon scores 40 on a semi-regular basis next season, he should pass _____ as our all time best center."

It's not likely that anyone will score 40 next year except against VMI.

If you really want to get Scar started, now that we have some ideas for an all-LU starting five, how about the all-LU coaching staff? Who would be a part of that staff leading these guys?

I say, bring back Dale Gibson!!!

If Armon scores 40 on a semi-regular basis next season...

JC, the difference is, Ace has already done that once, and Armon & Tyler are just dreaming about having those kinds of games.

paradox wrote:With all kidding aside, we do have to give Scar this: he was without a doubt the best compliment to Alston that BA had in his three years here. TS, although a late bloomer, was certainly at least a level above the likes of a Stephon Leary or a Steve Farquhar.

Also, during the Bailey Alston era, LU was a pultry 34-49. How many games would LU have won without him? That's a scary question. As good as he was as a coach, it's a wonder that Meyer even survived that era.

I appreciate the compliment Dox...So why don't you just get on here and tell me who you are man? I will be able to figure it out soon though if you keep sharing your obvious insight into our program And I don't think I was a late bloomer so much as Coach Meyer was a little late in realizing that I could play WITH BA instead of FOR him when he needed a rest. After my Soph through my senior year I was always voted by my teammates as the second or 3rd best player on the team. Don't ask me why we voted for that stuff but we always had a secret ballot for certain supurlatives and Coach would share them with us in our one on one meetings. He wouldn't tell you what anyone else got but he would tell you how everyone felt about you. Paul Nazigian always placed high on those things too but he, like I was a walk-on and it is much more difficult for a coach to trust you in a game situation when he hasn't recruited you no matter how well you perform in practice....All time coaching staff? I'm not touching that one except to say that I don't belong on that list either. All time Ploach? Sure. Me and Darryl Williams and Greg McCauley in terms of being a player/coach. Ken Brooks was pretty good with the step slide drill too. Dox, you know Brooks? Maybe you are Brooks? I will figure it out man but it will be OUR secret

Yea, that was a tough period for Meyer. He was trying to win with guys who were barely 6-5 playing in the low post. He was overly committed to a couple of guards that should have been shelved after their first year. And yea, he was definetly slow to recognize the potential of a certain fiesty kid from Philly who turned out to be a pretty good player and fine compliment to Alston.

Careful, dox. Some of those guards he was overly committed to peruse this board.

Hey SCAR - I know Brooks. I was the trainer for Baptist Bible College when Brooks was "all- whatever" out there in Springfield, MO. Roger Reed Coached, and RD was a great guard. Brooks was a technician, always under control, always making the right moves, always patient, and always completing the play. The prototypical white guy, in that you didn't see the athleticism on display, but you knew it was there in some form because he was so good and efficient. (Ask him about the time that me & RD beat him and a 6'8" physical specimen named Tim Bluhm ... we were playing by my rules, of course).

As far as all coaching honors, you might guess who I believe has been the best, and I think more people will agree when we look back on everything - if we live a few more years. Of course, the records may not bear it out, since Jeff Barber is already working on making sure that the records (1st) make him look brilliant, and (2nd) make his choice as coach look almost as brilliant.

How are we doing with free expression these days?