A Sea Of Red

So...

If Winthrop can do it, why can't we?

...

I always thought that you're going to get no love in Big South. While true, we can at least get respectability playing in a lesser-conference (see Gonzaga). If Gregg Marshall and Winthrop can build a program that had 51 conference losses in the five years leading up to Gregg Marshall's first year and turn that into a top 25 squad, why can't Liberty?

And what do we need to do to get us into that position?

Ed ... just so you know, that's precisely the train of thought going through Jeff Barber's mind. He even went as far to say "it's our turn," when I asked him about the very same thing. If VCU and Winthrop, schools with similar financial resources and facilities, can have men's basketball success, so should Liberty. That's what he thinks, anyway.

<-------- this is the Liberty Way and student life dancing right in front of you. Not saying that it makes it impossible, but certainly a huge barrier.

The simple answer is that we can build a similar program. We have the infrastructure and a league where the opportunity presents itself. We just need the right staff and be fortunate to land players who develop the way T-Mart, Bradshaw & Jenkins have for the Eagles.

Absolutely- it IS our turn and it CAN and WILL be done.

all hinges on this new hire.

LUconn wrote: <-------- this is the Liberty Way and student life dancing right in front of you. Not saying that it makes it impossible, but certainly a huge barrier.

that is true... very true

Frankly I think the Liberty Way stuff is a lame excuse. Football has a better argument in that they have to field a team with about 30 solid players... Basketball needs a solid 7-8 man rotation. In this country we can get the players to come here if they know they will get the shot to be the next (VCU, Winthrop, Gonzaga, College of Charleston, etc.)

We only need 2 solid recruits a year. In the entire country I firmly believe we can recruit 2-3 kids a year to keep our program in the national spotlight. Guys who bring that up are saying that we can't get a dozen basketball players in America who can deal with LU the same way that the other 10,000 kids on campus do. C'mon guys... quit making standards the excuse. We can have both high standards and a quality program.

Johns Hopkins University has EXTREMELY high academic standards but their lacrosse team is always on top. Notre Dame isn't the easiest school to get in but both of their major programs do well... (except today). My point is that there are obstacles in many places but we have to quit apologizing for having standards.

liberty has more facilities and more stuff to do than k State in Manhattan KS (even though I have never been there). There are plenty of schools who's social life does not compare to Liberty if you take getting drunk out of the picture. I think the Liberty Way is not even that much of a factor when recruiting because it is not talked about that much. Once a guy gets here he may have a problem with it but soon figure out ways around the rules should he desire. That is a fact of life, and I am not condoning any sort of behavior. I have recruited players to Liberty and some were actually pretty good . The Liberty Way is not a total non-factor but no where near as significant as to keep a good player from coming here if the right coach and team were in place. Don't underestimate the influence the current players have on a recruit. When they are alone with the recruit, they usually give it to them straight. That is when it could become an issue but even then it is usually not a deal breaker.

At the risk of "outing" myself as the dreamer I am, I will take what SCAR and Tally said one step further. I agree that in the short run, the spiritual aspect of LU (including the rules) is not necessarily a big obstacle. More than that, I believe that with the right coach, it can be a drawing card for players who would never consider a place like LU based on reputation, facilities, academics or conference affiliation.

I don't know where this idea comes from that all great athletes are reprobates......... OK, I do know where it comes from, but that doesn't make it true. There are guys playing at the highest level of college ball (and in the pros too for that matter) who are as dedicated in their christianity as anyone at LU. Dwight Howard and Tim Tebow are just a couple of examples off the top of my head. Build a foundation here and some of these kids will be drawn by the opportunity to be a part of a team which plays the game both to win and to glorify God and a school where there are unique opportunities to grow spiritually as well as academically and athletically. I think we've gotten a glimpse with some of the football recruits this year who had offers from power schools. It's just the tip of the iceburg.

Were we not on the right track when JM was dismissed?

I also believe that it is definately attainable. Look at the pairity that is becoming more and more the norm in college basketball. Each year we seem closer and closer to a 16 beating a 1. Someday it will happen.

Anybody else find it ironic that the Big South finally gets a win in the tourney (sorry UNCA...yours does not count) and it is over Notre Dame? Talk about the ultimate dream for the Doc.

UNCA does too count. Opening round game. Check your record books when you get off your island, Hank.

Fumblerooskies wrote:UNCA does too count. Opening round game. Check your record books when you get off your island, Hank.

Yea...and you probably picked a winner in the Niagra/FAMU game this year! When it is played on Thurs or Fri, then it counts

Who's to argue...I got no response. Heck, even ESPN still calls it a play in game.

Fumblerooskies wrote:Were we not on the right track when JM was dismissed?

Hmmmmmm, that's a good question. I can only speak as a fan. No inside information here. JM was pushed out following a major "housecleaning" where several players were dismissed for disciplinary and academic reasons. The prevous year we had won 23 games, but lost in the BS tourney with a gimpy Marcus White, who pulled a groin muscle. It looked like we were going to be loaded going into 97-98 before it "hit the fan". JM took a pass on the "win this year or else" ultimatum he was given, and worked in Dr. Borek's office that year before moving on to be Marshall's right hand man. RD ran the program that year as interum coach. From what I observed and heard from people who would know, that team was a tight-knit, spiritual group, and I never saw a team hustle harder. It was led by 3 seniors, Mark Reed, Eric Sorenson and Larry Jackson (AKA GOAT). Overall they just didn't have enough bodies, size, or athleticism to put together a winning record, and were at a particular disadvantage in the old conference tourney format where you played 3 games back to back. they lost in the semis. Supposedly RD had a pretty good group of recruits lined up, but then came Hankey.

Personally, I think most of the problems in the program had been dealt with in 97. If the JM/RD team had stayed together, I suspect 97-98 might have gone a little better based on JM's defensive expertise and experience as a game coach. 98-99 would have been a talented young team, and from then on I think the sky would have been the limit. Maybe GOAT will read this and give us a much more knowledgible perspective.

olldflame wrote:

Fumblerooskies wrote:Were we not on the right track when JM was dismissed?

Hmmmmmm, that's a good question. I can only speak as a fan. No inside information here. JM was pushed out following a major "housecleaning" where several players were dismissed for disciplinary and academic reasons. The prevous year we had won 23 games, but lost in the BS tourney with a gimpy Marcus White, who pulled a groin muscle. It looked like we were going to be loaded going into 97-98 before it "hit the fan". JM took a pass on the "win this year or else" ultimatum he was given, and worked in Dr. Borek's office that year before moving on to be Marshall's right hand man. RD ran the program that year as interum coach. From what I observed and heard from people who would know, that team was a tight-knit, spiritual group, and I never saw a team hustle harder. It was led by 3 seniors, Mark Reed, Eric Sorenson and Larry Jackson (AKA GOAT). Overall they just didn't have enough bodies, size, or athleticism to put together a winning record, and were at a particular disadvantage in the old conference tourney format where you played 3 games back to back. they lost in the semis. Supposedly RD had a pretty good group of recruits lined up, but then came Hankey.

Personally, I think most of the problems in the program had been dealt with in 97. If the JM/RD team had stayed together, I suspect 97-98 might have gone a little better based on JM's defensive expertise and experience as a game coach. 98-99 would have been a talented young team, and from then on I think the sky would have been the limit. Maybe GOAT will read this and give us a much more knowledgible perspective.

I agree with what you're saying, BUT that didn't happen. We are where we are, and nowhere else. Let's look to the future, and see what we can do to get to where Winthrop is, instead of looking in the rear view mirror.

Of course we can be a Winthrop or VCU type...there are major schools out there that do well in athletics that have strong academic requirements...I think those could be harder to overcome then some rules we may have....

THat is a lame excuse and there is no reason why we can not be successful...especially in basketball where not as many players are needed....

This is JB's biggest quest and he is going to do all he can to get us there....but it CAN happen...will it?? I don't know...but there is no good reason why it can't....

jcmanson wrote: I agree with what you're saying, BUT that didn't happen. We are where we are, and nowhere else. Let's look to the future, and see what we can do to get to where Winthrop is, instead of looking in the rear view mirror.

Hey, I know it may be annoying to some people when I talk about those days, but in my defense, I was responding to a specific question. I didn't have a forum like flamefans to vent on back then, so I guess I'm finally getting it out of my system.

Believe me, I'm as excited as anyone about the opportunity ahead. Unlike the last 2 coaching changes, this new hire will start out with a talented team and a stable administration backing him up. I think the Winthrop/VCU level is attainable based on just the things we have in common with those institutions. I think LU has the potential for a much higher level based on what makes it different. Get an NCAA win or 2 under our belts, and maybe a player or 2 in the NBA and I think we'll start getting serious consideration from really elite christian athletes. I'm talking about the ones who are being recruited by Carolina and UCLA and wouldn't give Winthrop or VCU a second thought. Of course "you have to learn to walk before you can run"

Were we not on the right track when JM was dismissed?

I remember when a rumor circulated years ago that Meyer was trying to recruit CHRIS WEBBER out of high school to come to LU, and it was also rumored that CW paid us an official visit. Can anybody in the know confirm or deny that?

I also like the idea of only needing 2 top players a year to be successful at the national level. Lord knows I've seen plenty of tatooed crosses on players' arms during this final-64 tournament, whatever that means.

Chris Webber's mother was a fan of Jerry, and we were on his list of schools for an official visit, but I don't believe he ever came.