[belcherboy]

http://www.wsls.com/servlet/Satellite?p ... th=!sports

Here is the part that caught my eye.

Barber said he gave Dunton an opportunity to resign this morning, but Dunton declined. Barber said Dunton's dismissal was not a knee-jerk reaction to Tuesday night's loss.


"If you want to ask me, when did I feel (this was the right move), then a couple of weeks ago, I had the information I needed to make this move," Barber said. "Last night had nothing to do it."


Had Liberty won the Big South tournament and advanced to the NCAA tournament, it would not have been enough to save Dunton's job, Barber said.

Had they upset Winthrop and gone to the NCAA tourney Dunton still would have been let go? There must be something much deeper going on here.

[SuperJon]

We don't need this type of stuff.

Barber didn't like things, he made a change. Plain and simple.

We've been saying all year that it was more than wins and losses.

[belcherboy]

We don't need this type of stuff.

Barber didn't like things, he made a change. Plain and simple.

We've been saying all year that it was more than wins and losses.

I'm sorry, I just read that and wondered why someone would even make that statement. I'm not trying to start any controversy here, just simply shocked that this isn't simply wins, losses, and missed expectations as I understood it to be.

Again I'm not trying to start a debate or a "rip Dunton" thread, just simply pointing out that the AD of Liberty was wanting him gone weeks ago and there was nothing he could have done to save his job. That part surprised me.

[Sly Fox]

I agree. Barber is ultimately responsible for his decisions and he doesn't strike me as the type to let spite stand in his way of succeeding.

[belcherboy]

I agree. Barber is ultimately responsible for his decisions and he doesn't strike me as the type to let spite stand in his way of succeeding.

Again, I'm not trying to start any kind of "ripping" thread here, but isn't a NCAA tourney bid like winning a national championship at Liberty? Really outside of Winthrop, going to the NCAA tourney is the best any Big South Team can really hope for. Why would he say that even if we accomplished that feat, it would not be enough to save his job? Perhaps we will never know, but if they felt a coach could take Liberty to the NCAA tourney in the next 3 years, they would hire him on the spot IMO. I'm just sort of confused and shocked by that statement.

[SuperJon]

He said last night that he would be called an idiot but that the change needed to be made.

Has Jeff Barber done anything wrong yet? No. I say we trust him on this one.

[belcherboy]

Has Jeff Barber done anything wrong yet? No. I say we trust him on this one.

I personally think that the above bolded statement was dumb. I'm 600 miles away from the program, but I have discussed it with several of my alumni friends around the U.S. We discussed the lack of success at Liberty and understood Barber's decision. Understandable decision, far from making him an idiot IMO. Then my friend sends me that article and asks "what really happened?" Why make that statement? I trust the guy, but the above statement makes Randy look REALLY bad. Almost like he has done something really wrong. Bad enough that even if he would have pulled off the upset and made it to the dance that he would still have be fired.

[Hold My Own]

JB is very clear that it is deeper then just wins and losses...what does that mean? I guess you'll just have to use your imagination...things that are considered are players character, team structure, business side and maybe things that are even deeper

[Sly Fox]

Again I feel this isn't productive for Dunton or Barber's future. Clearly the AD had strong feelings that a change needed to be made and he will be held responsible one way or the other down the road for this move.

[Purple Haize]

He said last night that he would be called an idiot but that the change needed to be made.

Has Jeff Barber done anything wrong yet? No. I say we trust him on this one.

He most certainly HAS made a mistake. The first time I met him his belt and shoes did not match!! I mean seriously a black belt with oxblood loafers??? Please, where is the professionalism!!!

Of course it was more than wins or losses. If it wasn't than why make a statement like that. BOTH parties knew what the standards were and what needed to happen in the WHOLE program. Obviously, whatever those were, they were not sufficiently met.

[krh44]

JB said yesterday that there were areas of concern that he addressed w/ Randy at the beginning of the season. Like someone said we will have to leave that to the imagination.

[whmatthews]

I don't think belcherboy is trying to start anything, which some of the responses to his questions imply. I think it's an honest question.

[belcherboy]

Again I feel this isn't productive for Dunton or Barber's future. Clearly the AD had strong feelings that a change needed to be made and he will be held responsible one way or the other down the road for this move.

Seriously, what can be said or done that will be productive for Dunton and Barber's future on this message board? Do we yield that kind of power?

With all due respect, why is it I feel like this message board is a arm of the Liberty Champion sometimes? Again I live 600 miles away from Liberty and find a message board that talks Flames sports. Now when something big happens, everyone wants to not talk about it? By discussing the controversy we are "beating a dead horse". I didn't know the horse existed until I read the above article. Many of the criticism on either side is labeled as wrong. Is this not a Division I college sports message board?


Here is another question, has anyone ever been asked or known someone who was asked to resign or be fired for something that was not of a serious nature?

I will let it go if that is what the leaders on this message board want, but I really am curious. Perhaps it is turning into a gossip type thing on my part and I definitely don't want that, but I do enjoy talking about the good and bad things in Liberty athletics. I would hate to see all the criticism censored as it makes for good debate IMO.

[SuperJon]

Criticism isn't censored, but when we don't have anything other than "he said she said" speculation, we don't like to go into it. No one knows what went on behind the scenes and if Barber wanted it public, believe me, he'd announce it. That's the type of person he is. Some things should just stay behind the scenes.

[belcherboy]

Criticism isn't censored, but when we don't have anything other than "he said she said" speculation, we don't like to go into it. No one knows what went on behind the scenes and if Barber wanted it public, believe me, he'd announce it. That's the type of person he is. Some things should just stay behind the scenes.

I can understand that, but I have heard on more than one occasion that criticism of Randy is off limits now. Something about letting him get on with his life (which seems odd that a message board would hinder that). I was responding to "stick up" for Dunton in a thread that magically disappeared before I could finish my post.

I was at school when Jeff Meyer got fired. There were plenty of supposed "insider information" about the reasons why (IIRC the biggest rumor had to do with a tournament on the West Coast). I thought perhaps this instance had some similar type event take place. It really is none of my business, but Barbers statements are not commonly heard coming from the AD of a Division I university that has just fired a coach unless he is defending himself.

[SuperJon]

Criticism of Dunton is ok, as long as it's not personal and there are facts to back it up.

[flameshaw]

I do not believe there was any "scandelous" behavior that led to RD's not being renewed. I honestly believe it was totally related to the direction of the program and whether or not RD could take us to the next level.

In addition to that, I suspect that JB did make his recommendation to JF some time ago. I am not sure the recommendation would have been made/approved overnight, especially when you consider Jerry's personal feelings for RD. I am certain it was given a lot of thought.

I find it perfectly believable that regardless of what happened in the tournament, RD could not have saved his job. Based on the records outside the conference and little improvement in 5 years, I can understand the thought process. It is easy to say now, but personally I felt the same way, but becuase I was not a supporter of RD by any stretch, I did not trust my ability to be totally objective. Not only that, it wasn't my decision to make thank goodness.

I wouldn't keep looking up in the sky for any black helicopters, just don't think there are any.

[Sly Fox]

First off, I think we have been very open on this board about allowing people to say whatever they want as long as it doesn't get personal. The thread that was taken down got very personal. Not every post int he thread but enough of it that the thread made no sense otherwise.

All I am saying is what difference does it make what led to the decision at this point in time unless there was some illegality. And I don't think anyone is suggested that at this juncture. Let's just move on to the task at hand of finding a new coach.

As for the power of message boards, in cases like these message boards are one of the first places schools go to chase rumor during a background check. That's why responsibility is urged in such matters. If you think I'm crazy then you can think what you like. I happen to know for a fact that message boards are checked especially under these circumstances. I've seen ti many times at schools I cover.

[belcherboy]

First off, I think we have been very open on this board about allowing people to say whatever they want as long as it doesn't get personal. The thread that was taken down got very personal. Not every post int he thread but enough of it that the thread made no sense otherwise.

All I am saying is what difference does it make what led to the decision at this point in time unless there was some illegality. And I don't think anyone is suggested that at this juncture. Let's just move on to the task at hand of finding a new coach.

As for the power of message boards, in cases like these message boards are one of the first places schools go to chase rumor during a background check. That's why responsibility is urged in such matters. If you think I'm crazy then you can think what you like. I happen to know for a fact that message boards are checked especially under these circumstances. I've seen ti many times at schools I cover.

I'm sorry, but if someone loses a potential job over comments on a message board, they need to run from that program (unless the rumors are true). You obviously know more than I do, but sports oriented message boards tend to be over the top. I believe that is why they are so popular.

Anyway, I'll let the Randy Dunton discussion go. I'm sure there will be plenty to talk about once they hire a new coach!

[TallyW]

As I said on another thread I believe we can be comfortable in the fact that if JB came in a year ago and during his interview was asked "What is our problem?" He may have said a number of things that involved leadership of the various programs. I don't think it would have to be scandal to see how this would play out. JB replaced a guy who held next to no authority or decision making power. JB comes in and sets expectations high... if he doesn't develop a good working relationship with a guy who has 'been around the block' here... I could easily see it ending this way. It doesn't mean anything terrible for RD... it could be as simple as these guys didn't click and JB is here to turn around an entire University's Athletic department.

There are things apart from wins that matter when talking about what JB needs to see happen... Fans have to be excited, alumni have to believe again, donors have to see a R.O.I. so they'll fork more money over later... on and on...

We've seen RD on these boards true... but its usually defending some airhead on here... Rocco carries a flair and freshness that got the student body excited. Not to mention the fact that JB and Rocco bring a similar frame of reference into the situation... coming from big programs... JB may have felt that Dunton didn't have that same type of vision... in JB's shoes that's a bad thing... JB needs a basketball coach who has recently spent time on a campus where much more was included in the BBall coaches role than winning in the worst conference in America.... he needs someone around him with the ability to light the place up with his enthusiasm and leadership... I doubt there was any 'scandal'... I honestly see this as JB's best decision to get the ball rolling in the big-picture of this University.

Any "name" coach or assistant from a "name" program will get all of us excited just like the addition of Rocco. With the addition of 1 or 2 more big time players (via transfer or recruits presently headed to another school) the Vines attendance will increase as well as media coverage... JB has a big picture in mind... it's not simply X's and O's.

[Libertine]

Why make that statement?

Because the question was asked.

[belcherboy]

Why make that statement?

Because the question was asked.

I know this makes me sound dumb, but that is a very good answer. It seems now that it was that cut and dry. I'm not sure how I would have answered that question if put on the spot, but I wish he had said something along the lines of "We were hoping for a different result, but in the end we felt this was the best direction to take the program." Or at least I would have liked him to answer, "it really doesn't matter because we didn't win the Big South tournament".


What I have since heard is that there was a serious personality/power problem that had Dr. Falwell in the middle. In the end, Barber did what Falwell hired him to do, run the athletics of Liberty University. I'm sure there is much more involved than that, but I heard that was the root of the problem.

[Fumblerooskies]

Here is another question, has anyone ever been asked or known someone who was asked to resign or be fired for something that was not of a serious nature?

YUP!

[paradox]

So, Barber and Dunton didn't see eye-to-eye. Dunton thought that he was making progress; Barber didn't think that he made enough progress and thought that a coaching change was in order. Without a doubt, Dunton has enjoyed legitimate and significant success over his first three seasons. Unfortunately, he had to rebuild again and Barber wasn't pleased with the progress and he had every right to feel that way.

We will never know what went on behind the scenes. For instance, was Dunton offered a one-year extenstion, and then turned it down? We may never know.

We need to stop looking for some kind of secret scandal. Let it go.

Seriously though, some of the nitpicking, gossipmongering, and negative specualtion that goes on here is in all honesty, effeminate to say the least.

[Sly Fox]

Absolutely ... its happened to me.